School helped secret abortion - Page 6

**Maggy** · 13-05-2004, 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr wadd

This is obviously a very tragic situation, but it does highlight why I have argued previously that the parents should not be automatically informed regardless of the wishes of the girl.

But there are no indications that THIS mother would have been like that.Also what's to stop someone with an agenda using undue pressure on another 14 year old by resorting to this get out clause.

Any responsible councillor,health worker,social worker,teacher would have INSISTED that some consultation took place with a parent because no doubt at some point this child will need some help.It may take years but abortion can have an adverse affect emotionally some time after the abortion.I think that someone DIDN'T think this through enough.

**Chris** · 13-05-2004, 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by downquark1

At the same age she would be choosing her GCSE's what authority do parents have in that matter?

I think it would be more useful to try to define, as broadly as possible, what responsibility a parent has for a teenage child, rather than picking out any single example here or there.

**Chris** · 13-05-2004, 17:02

I have to say, at the moment, I believe that I can smell a sociological theory bubbling away underneath all this - one which wants to promote the idea that the rights and resonsibilities of a parent towards his/her offspring are ultimately subservient to those of the State. I hope I'm wrong. I don't like it one little bit.

**Paul** · 13-05-2004, 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr wadd

As I`ve stated above, I don`t believe that the mother has any rights in this situation, so as far as I am concerned they are entirely superfluous to the discussion. This is a private matter between the girl, her counsellors and her doctors, if the girl does not want her mother to know then the mother should not be told.

It's not had to tell you have no children. Parents are resposible for their children and have EVERY right to be informed of any situations involving them, be they good or bad. What if the treatment had gone wrong in some way and the girl had ended up in hospital or worse ?

Ramrod · 13-05-2004, 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr wadd

No, but I fail to see how whether I have any children or not is relevant to my viewpoint on the matter.

If you ever have children you will understand and then also feel rather silly about your stance here today. I don't mean that to be patronising in any way. It's just that having children changes your outlook completely

orangebird · 13-05-2004, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod

If you ever have children you will understand and then also feel rather silly about your stance here today. I don't mean that to be patronising in any way. It's just that having children changes your outlook completely

That was incredibly patronising. Their stance isn't 'silly' at all.

Have you ever been a 14 year old girl in this kind of trouble? I'll admit, I had a 'scare' at the same age. Thank god it was only a scare - I wouldn't have had the baby and I certainly wouldn't have wanted my mother involved, as much as I dearly love her. What about the girls rights??.....

iadom · 13-05-2004, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod

If you ever have children you will understand and then also feel rather silly about your stance here today. I don't mean that to be patronising in any way. It's just that having children changes your outlook completely

And your bank balance.

Incognitas is correct, if the " non medically trained counsellors" had an ounce of common sense the would have realised that the mother was almost certain to find out, and they should looked at the long term, rather than a quick fix, and made sure the mother was informed.

zovat · 13-05-2004, 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Incognitas

But there are no indications that THIS mother would have been like that.Also what's to stop someone with an agenda using undue pressure on another 14 year old by resorting to this get out clause.

Any responsible councillor,health worker,social worker,teacher would have INSISTED that some consultation took place with a parent because no doubt at some point this child will need some help.It may take years but abortion can have an adverse affect emotionally some time after the abortion.I think that someone DIDN'T think this through enough.

It would appear (to me anyway) that the girl asked for her parents not to be informed, and that was taken at face value by the people concerned - I personally would like to know if they asked her why, or did any checks on the parents (it would not be the first time that a person has come over all goody goody in the press, but in reality was anything but...)

13-05-2004, 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod

If you ever have children

Don`t worry, that isn`t a mistake I intend to make.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramrod

you will understand and then also feel rather silly about your stance here today. I don't mean that to be patronising in any way. It's just that having children changes your outlook completely

I honestly do not believe that would change my position, I can personally look at any situation objectively and deal with it in that manner, it is the approach that I take to running my life. I belive that the child has rights, and in this instance I believe that those rights outweigh the rights of the parent. I do not let emotion dictate my actions on this sort of issue, and I would not let them dictate a change in my opinion of someone's fundamental rights.

13-05-2004, 17:44

I dont see what the problem is.

What if the kid didnt want a baby yet the mother refused to allow an abortion? Is the child then forced to offer the baby up for adoption?

The school made the best of a bad situation, the mother probably wants compo and nothing else.

I applaude the school for its actions it made the decision when there was no clear right or wrong.

Incidently I am pro choice, abortion should remain legal, if we outlaw it people will die horrendous painfull deaths as a result of the backstreet clinics.

Ramrod · 13-05-2004, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangebird

Have you ever been a 14 year old girl in this kind of trouble? I'll admit, I had a 'scare' at the same age. Thank god it was only a scare - I wouldn't have had the baby and I certainly wouldn't have wanted my mother involved, as much as I dearly love her. What about the girls rights??.....

Thats beside the point. I am talking about my point of view as a parent and how my outlook changed whenI became a parent. As I said, I didn't mean to patronise, just to explain how views change with parenthood.

kronas · 13-05-2004, 18:03

i cant believe some people think the 14 year old is allowed to make her own decision, some people need to realise the parents needs to know the full facts of what is going on it, the decision affects both the mother of the unborn child and the mother of the 14 year old.

its just blatant mis handling of the situation to even think a 14 year old should be left to make this sort of decision without parental knowledge/ help.

as shown at the end of it all the child regretted the decision she made with the counsillers...

13-05-2004, 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronas

i cant believe some people think the 14 year old is allowed to make her own decision, some people need to realise the parents needs to know the full facts of what is going on it, the decision affects both the mother of the unborn child and the mother of the 14 year old.

its just blatant mis handling of the situation to even think a 14 year old should be left to make this sort of decision without parental knowledge/ help.

as shown at the end of it all the child regretted the decision she made with the counsillers...

Read my post again Kronas, what if theres a conflict of interests? What if the mother of the 14 year old refused permition for her daughter to have an abortion?
Where does that leave the 14 year old? where does that leave the baby when it is born, neglected? brought up with adoptive parents whikst the 14 year old has to live with the trauma of having to give her baby away, that irrespective of whether or not she wants it.

The school made an excellent decision and was forced to do something it should never have been expected to do.
Abortion is not a good thing, but its legal because its safer that way. I couldnt care less about it, its a necessary evil I guess.

kronas · 13-05-2004, 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

Read my post again Kronas, what if theres a conflict of interests? What if the mother of the 14 year old refused permition for her daughter to have an abortion?

how can a 14 year old financially and time consumingly provide care for it, you expect the mother to look after it ? excuse me but we all take responsability for our own actions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

Where does that leave the 14 year old? where does that leave the baby when it is born, neglected? brought up with adoptive parents whikst the 14 year old has to live with the trauma of having to give her baby away, that irrespective of whether or not she wants it.

so whats going to happen when they find out she is pregnant (whats the huge bump doing there ?) they will wonder ?

and then when they go to the doctors, and the doctor says she's pregnant, whichever way you see it, the reasonable thing to do is notify the parents, at the end of it all, she is 14, she is young, she needs guidence.

the fact is she wanted to keep it, but it ws too late because she talked to counsellors rather then her parents, she should have told them or the authorties should have, and taken it from there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

The school made an excellent decision and was forced to do something it should never have been expected to do.
Abortion is not a good thing, but its legal because its safer that way. I couldnt care less about it, its a necessary evil I guess.

nice to see the state 'own' you.

Ramrod · 13-05-2004, 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

Read my post again Kronas, what if theres a conflict of interests? What if the mother of the 14 year old refused permition for her daughter to have an abortion?
Where does that leave the 14 year old? where does that leave the baby when it is born, neglected? brought up with adoptive parents whikst the 14 year old has to live with the trauma of having to give her baby away, that irrespective of whether or not she wants it.

We can 'what if' about this all day. The bottom line is that the girl isn't an adult, by quite a few years. If she had been 17.5 then I can just about see how a decision like this might be made but in this case she was only 14.