School helped secret abortion

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

lol....I understand how it was done, just can't believe that it was allowed to take place without her knowledge or consent. Where does it stop? What if the girl was 10?
.....and as someone else pointed out.....if the girl had broken the law somehow they would have informed the mother....

What if they were to tell the mother after the abortion has taken place, and just tell her about the underage sex rather than the pregnancy incured.

Anyway there is some more information in the BBC report

[philip.j.fry]

For my part, I believe that the school (counsellors) acted properly with regards to the law. I also feel that they acted properly according to my morality (as far as I can determine from the article). I am of the opinion that although parents assume the top-level responsibility that the responsibility is also shared between the different parties that care for that child. Also, at the age of 14, the girl was at an age where she was beginning to take responsibility for herself. In this case, the girl sought adult guidance from a responsible source (well I should hope that the school counsellors were responsible) about what her choices were, she made that choice. I believe that the counsellors acted properly and had a duty to the girl not to inform her parents against her wishes. Contrary to what the mother believes it does seem that the girl was being looked after properly.

The point people have been making about 'what if she were to break a window' is interesting and I've had to think about that one a bit. The conclusion that I have come to is that for a start, not every misdemeanour committed by a child in school is reported back to the parents. Secondly, in those situations, the school defines the punishment and informing the parents is part of the punishment. Finally and most importantly, from my moral point of view the girl had not done anything wrong, she had made a mistake but in the solution to the mistake she learnt a very hard lesson (call that her punishment if you will) but she acted properly and sought adult guidance from a source that one would hope were well trained to deal with the situation.

Originally Posted by Ramrod

....and the people who carried out an abortion on an underage girl without her mothers knowledge or consent.

I fail entirely to see why the girl's mother should have to provide consent for this abortion. It's not the mother who is going to have carry the baby around for 9 months, it's not the mother who is going to be stuck with the kid after it is born (yes, I know the mother may assist, but ultimately the responsibility is going to be on the girl involved).

What if the mother were pro-life whereas the girl was pro-choice? Do you really think that it is fair for the mother to be able to veto the girl's decision when it is the girl who is going to be the one primarily affected?

[Russ]

I think the issue was that the mother was not even told, never mind asked for consent.

Originally Posted by Russ D

I think the issue was that the mother was not even told, never mind asked for consent.

I don`t see why there should be any obligation to tell the mother, as far as I am concerned she has no rights as far as having any controlling influence on the decisions being made so she doesn`t have to be informed. I concur that it would have been preferable if the girl involved felt that she could go to her parents, but clearly that was not the case even though it seems like that was a mistake on her part.

Let me throw in a little hypothetical situation for you here. As I mentioned above, in this instance it would seem that this girl could have gone to her mother. But there will be situations in which telling the parents could cause more harm then good if the parents were the sort who would react to it in the wrong way. If you have the possibility of that scenario I do not feel that there can ever be an obligation for the parents to be informed.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Russ D

I think the issue was that the mother was not even told, never mind asked for consent.

exactly!

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by dr wadd

Let me throw in a little hypothetical situation for you here. As I mentioned above, in this instance it would seem that this girl could have gone to her mother. But there will be situations in which telling the parents could cause more harm then good if the parents were the sort who would react to it in the wrong way. If you have the possibility of that scenario I do not feel that there can ever be an obligation for the parents to be informed.

Are you a parent?

Originally Posted by dr wadd

Let me throw in a little hypothetical situation for you here. As I mentioned above, in this instance it would seem that this girl could have gone to her mother. But there will be situations in which telling the parents could cause more harm then good if the parents were the sort who would react to it in the wrong way. If you have the possibility of that scenario I do not feel that there can ever be an obligation for the parents to be informed.

But now all this is over and done with, the girl is still this woman's daughter, and as she is still legally a child, the mother is responsible for her. The mother will have had a great deal of responsibility to bear in managing the consequences of this pregnancy, whether it was allowed to progress or not. We are beginning to discuss this in isolation from the wider implications, and I don't think it's right to try to define the 'rights' of this girl or her school to handle this situation without reference to her mother if we are not also going to discuss how this might infringe the longer-term rights and responsibilities of the mother.

Originally Posted by towny

I don't think it's right to try to define the 'rights' of this girl or her school to handle this situation without reference to her mother if we are not also going to discuss how this might infringe the longer-term rights and responsibilities of the mother.

As I`ve stated above, I don`t believe that the mother has any rights in this situation, so as far as I am concerned they are entirely superfluous to the discussion. This is a private matter between the girl, her counsellors and her doctors, if the girl does not want her mother to know then the mother should not be told.

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Are you a parent?

No, but I fail to see how whether I have any children or not is relevant to my viewpoint on the matter. As it does happen I did have personal problems when I was in my teenage years that my parents did not find out about until many years after the fact so I can examine the issue from that perspective. At that time I did not have the benefit of a counsellor that I could turn to support, but I can tell you that I would have been damn peeved if they had gone to my parents, and if anything, it would most likely have made the situation worse.

[zovat]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

exactly!

The law allows for doctors not to advise the parents when a child of 14 wishes to go on the pill, so I assume that the medical staff involved were within their rights not to tell the mother about this procedure.

This whole situation is unfortunate, but probably more common than we realise (not all mothers go to the tabloids when they do find out - if they ever do)

As I have stated before, my personal belief if that the parents should be consulted, however I am not so naive as to assume that there is never a time when doing this will do more harm than good. (I know of a friend, who at 17 told her parents she was pregnant, and they told her to either abort, or leave their house and never come back- fortunately her boyfriend (now husband of 7 years) and his family were more than supportive - even when her dad went round to their house, where she was now living, and threatened to "beat the living s#1t" out of the boyfriend).

We do not know what sort of relationship the girl has/had with her mother, just that she didn't feel that she could confide in her about this issue. When it all came to light, we are informed that the mother was supportive, and the girl realised she could have told her, and decided to keep the baby (unfortunately too late).

What we do not know is whether the mother convinced her of this, or whether the girl wanted too, but was too ashamed to discuss it with her mother for fear of upsetting her.

People can have a wonderful relationship with their parents, but because it is so good, and the parents have been so supportive, they feel that something like this is going to be a cause of embarrasment for them and they feel that this may sour the relationship. Unfortunately for most, this turns out to be a false fear, but by the time they realise that parents still love and support you even if you do something that you think(maybe correctly) will cause them embarrasment and pain it is too late, as the percieved lack of trust will more than likely cause the relationship to sour.

In a large number of cases love will still forgive all.....

Originally Posted by dr wadd

As I`ve stated above, I don`t believe that the mother has any rights in this situation, so as far as I am concerned they are entirely superfluous to the discussion. This is a private matter between the girl, her counsellors and her doctors, if the girl does not want her mother to know then the mother should not be told.

I don't agree. The mother has legal responsibility for the girl for another four years. It is hopelessly blinkered to take one single incident in the life of a child and try to manage it any way that does not take the wider picture into account.

Hmm! As a teacher I am rather surprised that the school allowed the situation to develop in this way.It is my experience that usually the school will bend over backwards to ensure that parents are informed because parents are regarded as an integral part of the relationship a student has with the school.It would be different IF the student concerned was in care but I gather that the there were no problems flagged with the local social services.

In fact if this had happened to me I would be just as incandescent about it.Not because I think I have the right to be consulted but because I would be the one to have to deal with the mental aftermath that an abortion will bring to the child concerned.It's very regrettable that this has occurred because schools and parents are so often mistrustful of each other.This can do nothing to help.

Incog.

Originally Posted by zovat

(I know of a friend, who at 17 told her parents she was pregnant, and they told her to either abort, or leave their house and never come back- fortunately her boyfriend (now husband of 7 years) and his family were more than supportive - even when her dad went round to their house, where she was now living, and threatened to "beat the living s#1t" out of the boyfriend).

This is obviously a very tragic situation, but it does highlight why I have argued previously that the parents should not be automatically informed regardless of the wishes of the girl.

[downquark1]

Although the parent is responsible for the child, a baby is a much longer term commitment. Once the girl becomes an adult, it will be entirely her responsibility.

At the same age she would be choosing her GCSE's what authority do parents have in that matter?