What's next, cattleprods?

[Russ]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/3682653.stm

And no Coggy, I was joking with the title.....

Originally Posted by Russ D

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/3682653.stm

And no Coggy, I was joking with the title.....

A friend spent 12 months working for the Anglican church in Uganda, which included a fair amount of school teaching. I've seen a home video that was taken when his brother visited him - it shows him taking a school assembly while the teachers patrolled with sticks which they used to prod (or lightly whack) kids that stepped out of line.

Not so different from cattle prods, and amazingly the discipline and obedience of the kids in that assembly was second to none.

Just an observation, you understand.

[Stuartbe]

Cant see the problem with it myself. The child was not injured and I bet he wont talk in class anymore. More dicipline is exactly what is needed these days as kids can literaly get away with murder and they know that the teachears cant do a thing about it.

EDIT : In this case ( the fact that the child was speciel needs ) I find a little disturbing that this was done !

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Stuartbe

Cant see the problem with it myself. The child was not injured and I bet he wont talk in class anymore. More dicipline is exactly what is needed these days as kids can literaly get away with murder and they know that the teachears cant do a thing about it.

Special Needs or not, I see a BIG problem with it. If any adult, be they a police officer, teacher or whatever, so much as lays a finger on my daughter, they'll be in court faster than they can say "We need more holidays".

Discipline is down to the PARENTS and no-one else.

[Stuartbe]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Special Needs or not, I see a BIG problem with it. If any adult, be they a police officer, teacher or whatever, so much as lays a finger on my daughter, they'll be in court faster than they can say "We need more holidays".

Discipline is down to the PARENTS and no-one else.

Fair enough. When I was at school any corporal punishment had to be aproved by the parents anyway. I can see your point - I would feel the same way.

When I say discipline I am talking it in genaral terms, not neceserily about physical punishment.

Originally Posted by Russ D

Special Needs or not, I see a BIG problem with it. If any adult, be they a police officer, teacher or whatever, so much as lays a finger on my daughter, they'll be in court faster than they can say "We need more holidays".

Discipline is down to the PARENTS and no-one else.

When you send your child to school, you devolve a certain amount of your authority to the school in order to enable it to look after him (or her). That authority allows the school to act in the interests of the child, both in terms of their education and safety, and the education and safety of other children.

Parents who start banging the drum for their children's 'rights' and threatening court action just help to make the discipline problem in our schools worse. The kids now know that the teachers can't lay a finger on them. Without fear and respect for authority, authority crumbles. Clearly there needs to be a line drawn between what constitutes acceptable and unacceptable measures when a school is disciplining a child, but I certainly don't agree that discipline is the exclusive preserve of parents.

When parents devolve their responsibility to educate their children to a school, they must accept that they devolve powers to discipline as well, or else the whole system breaks down.

[Shaun]

I can see the logic behind the idea, put a small strip of tape on the boys lips to remind him each time that he needs no to listen and not speak. The logic is fine, but the practicality's of it aren't, you just can't do that to a child, special needs or not, all the teacher would have needed to do would be ask the child to place his finger on his lips. Our teachers used to make us to it when we were talking and not listening and it worked. Another practice is for the teacher to place their hand in the air when they want the children to be quiet and ask the children to do it too. It's surprisingly effective.

As for Discipline being a parents job, thats fine Russ, but it doesn't always work like that, does it. Have you ever visited an inner city school?

[Russ]

Originally Posted by towny

When you send your child to school, you devolve a certain amount of your authority to the school in order to enable it to look after him (or her). That authority allows the school to act in the interests of the child, both in terms of their education and safety, and the education and safety of other children.

Parents who start banging the drum for their children's 'rights' and threatening court action just help to make the discipline problem in our schools worse. The kids now know that the teachers can't lay a finger on them. Without fear and respect for authority, authority crumbles. Clearly there needs to be a line drawn between what constitutes acceptable and unacceptable measures when a school is disciplining a child, but I certainly don't agree that discipline is the exclusive preserve of parents.

When parents devolve their responsibility to educate their children to a school, they must accept that they devolve powers to discipline as well, or else the whole system breaks down.

But there are other ways to enforce discipline which don't envolve physical punishment. I'm all for teacher's rights and protection but as a parent I take my responsibilites very seriously. Taking away privileges, detention etc are all options.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Special Needs or not, I see a BIG problem with it. If any adult, be they a police officer, teacher or whatever, so much as lays a finger on my daughter, they'll be in court faster than they can say "We need more holidays".

Discipline is down to the PARENTS and no-one else.

As long as you are willing to discipline your daughter. The problem is when the child knows that the teachers disciplinary options are limited and that when they get home no punishment will be waiting.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by SMHarman

As long as you are willing to discipline your daughter.

I won't have a problem with that. It won't be easy or pleasant but I consider myself to have strong family values - and discipline starts at home.

Originally Posted by SMHarman

The problem is when the child knows that the teachers disciplinary options are limited and that when they get home no punishment will be waiting.

100% in agreement with you there.

[Stuartbe]

Originally Posted by Russ D

I won't have a problem with that. It won't be easy or pleasant but I consider myself to have strong family values - and discipline starts at home.

The trouble is Russ that you are probobly in the minority on that one. There are sadly to many parents that just budle the kids of the school and wash there hands of any problems. You find that these types of parents dont care about the child's behavier when he/she is at school but should they get a little scratch on thier nee they will be first to go up there and have a go at the staff.

Kudos to you Russ for bringing up your kids in a responsible way

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Stuartbe

Kudos to you Russ for bringing up your kids in a responsible way

Hold up, she's only 9 months old

Originally Posted by Russ D

But there are other ways to enforce discipline which don't envolve physical punishment. I'm all for teacher's rights and protection but as a parent I take my responsibilites very seriously. Taking away privileges, detention etc are all options.

This is true, but these are all disciplines that the school would perform. You seemed to be suggesting that schools should have no disciplinary powers at all.

Personally I'm all for corporal punishment, but as others have said it ought to be done with the involvement of the parents. (Although I think while parents should be informed and given the chance to attend, their agreement should not be required). Sometimes the parents are as much the problem as the unruly kids themselves and they need to understand that authority must be respected for the benefit of all.

Russ, for what it's worth I think in your case it's less likely your daughter is going to get into the kind of trouble that might once have attracted a caning, as she clearly is going to know that whatever the school does to her will be a picnic compared to the (lovingly expressed) fury of her daddy

[xaq141175]

Cattle prods ? ... hmm. Might work.

If your a parant that believes in disapline then chances are your child would never be prodded with one as they would be unlikely to assualt the teacher or thier classmates.

It's the children that are feral that are the problem. I can't see intellectual reasoning having any impact on those. I had one of these *******s in my class when I was 14. A cattle prod would have come in very handy.

And get the parants in so they can be shocked too.

Nice to see his Mother was so concerned about the punishment rather than the actual cause (his mis-behaviour).