Gays overreacting/looking for trouble?

[zendawn]

Originally Posted by towny

So 'positive' discrimination, designed to remedy the effects of past prejudice by over-recruiting from formerly overlooked sections of society, is also wrong?

The kind of discrimination that prevents male social workers from working with prostitutes is wrong?

Discrimination that says people who take senior jobs at faith-based organisations must be in sympathy with that faith, is wrong?

I think the words 'in any circumstance' covers your post.

How to define what we mean by 'wrong' is perhaps the better conversation, but one whch is off topic for this subject and one which i doubt our respective vocabs would allow to come to a constructive conclusion,

[Russ]

Originally Posted by zendawn

Well again we will differ in opinion (nothing wrong with it tho).
They are just allowing the perceptiion that ALL men are bad if only women can council women on this issue. Rape affects both sexes.

The reason my sister is better suited is because she's female - if ever you come in to contact with a woman who's had the misfortune of being attacked, ask if she'd rather get counsel from a man or a woman.

They say a woman every time. And as I said, she works for a charity which deals with FEMALE victims.

[Defiant]

I can't believe this thread is still going. The answer to this is simple as we know. When they get there hearing it will go in favour of the gays because its unfair that women are allowed and the gays are not. That is not equal rights. Simple really

[zendawn]

Originally Posted by Russ D

The reason my sister is better suited is because she's female - if ever you come in to contact with a woman who's had the misfortune of being attacked, ask if she'd rather get counsel from a man or a woman.

They say a woman every time. And as I said, she works for a charity which deals with FEMALE victims.

Of course they will say women, because they are prejudiced into thinking that only women can understand what its like to be raped and that ALL men are rapists.
So just because a person has male chromosomes(sp?) they are not intelligent or empathic(sp?) enougth to understand the violation that has happened.

[zendawn]

Originally Posted by Defiant

I can't believe this thread is still going. The answer to this is simple as we know. When they get there hearing it will go in favour of the gays because its unfair that women are allowed and the gays are not. That is not equal rights. Simple really

I hope your right, hopefully they can go to the european court if not.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by zendawn

Of course they will say women, because they are prejudiced into thinking that only women can understand what its like to be raped and that ALL men are rapists.
So just because a person has male chromosomes(sp?) they are not intelligent or empathic(sp?) enougth to understand the violation that has happened.

OK I can see you have no experience of counselling so let me explain. Those offering help need to be seen as approachable. In the vast majority of situations, if a woman has been attacked, she will develop a distrust/fear of most/all men (whether justified or not) so in order for her recieve the best possible treatment, she needs to be dealt with my someone she will feel comfortable with. It's just one of those things that she will feel more comfortable relating her experiences to another woman.

it's not sexist, it's not prejudice, it's just one of those things!!

I'm sure that for male rape charities there are more men involved.

Originally Posted by zendawn

Of course they will say women, because they are prejudiced into thinking that only women can understand what its like to be raped and that ALL men are rapists.
So just because a person has male chromosomes(sp?) they are not intelligent or empathic(sp?) enougth to understand the violation that has happened.

And you think that the only person whose feelings matter in such circumstances is the man who wants a job as a rape counsellor, and not the poor woman who has been raped? Would you like to be the one to tell a traumatised woman who is asking to confide in a female rape counsellor that she is exhibiting prejudiced thinking and should be content with whoever she's given?

Forgive me, but I think you are the last person who should be delivering lectures about empathy.

[zendawn]

Originally Posted by Russ D

OK I can see you have no experience of counselling so let me explain. Those offering help need to be seen as approachable. In the vast majority of situations, if a woman has been attacked, she will develop a distrust/fear of most/all men (whether justified or not) so in order for her recieve the best possible treatment, she needs to be dealt with my someone she will feel comfortable with. It's just one of those things that she will feel more comfortable relating her experiences to another woman.

it's not sexist, it's not prejudice, it's just one of those things!!

I'm sure that for male rape charities there are more men involved.

I have a vast experience of counselling(sp?) and like I said before it's not only women that get raped (if you get my point).
It takes alot of courage to face your abuser, so I can imagine how hard it would be to talk to (or even be in the presence) of somebody who was the same gender as your abuser.
But that is just a psychological response to a fight or flight situation, one which as a species we need to evolve out off.

[zendawn]

Originally Posted by towny

And you think that the only person whose feelings matter in such circumstances is the man who wants a job as a rape counsellor, and not the poor woman who has been raped? Would you like to be the one to tell a traumatised woman who is asking to confide in a female rape counsellor that she is exhibiting prejudiced thinking and should be content with whoever she's given?

Forgive me, but I think you are the last person who should be delivering lectures about empathy.

Please see post 188 and read the subtext.

Originally Posted by zendawn

I have a vast experience of counselling(sp?) and like I said before it's not only women that get raped (if you get my point).
It takes alot of courage to face your abuser, so I can imagine how hard it would be to talk to (or even be in the presence) of somebody who was the same gender as your abuser.
But that is just a psychological response to a fight or flight situation, one which as a species we need to evolve out off.

So:

Victim: I've been raped, please help me...
Man: OK, you can talk to me.
Victim: I'm sorry, I really can't be in a room with a man just now. I'd prefer to talk to a woman.
Man: Oh come on, that's just a psychological response to a fight or flight situation, one which as a species we need to evolve out off.

Should the day come that I experience some awful crisis, I will thank the good Lord above that I won't be getting the benefit of your 'vast experience' at counselling.

[zendawn]

Originally Posted by towny

So:

Victim: I've been raped, please help me...
Man: OK, you can talk to me.
Victim: I'm sorry, I really can't be in a room with a man just now. I'd prefer to talk to a woman.
Man: Oh come on, that's just a psychological response to a fight or flight situation, one which as a species we need to evolve out off.

Should the day come that I experience some awful crisis, I will thank the good Lord above that I won't be getting the benefit of your 'vast experience' at counselling.

Yes shows the level of counselling in today society. But that is how male victims of abuse ARE treated.
Men arnt supposed to feel, but women are, another example of discrimination and prejudice that perpetuates the cycle.

Originally Posted by zendawn

Yes shows the level of counselling in today society. But that is how male victims of abuse ARE treated.
Men arnt supposed to feel, but women are, another example of discrimination and prejudice that perpetuates the cycle.

I'm not sure I'm following you. Are you saying that male victims of abuse suffer a lesser standard of treatment when receiving counselling, so therefore women should receive a lesser standard too?

[zendawn]

Originally Posted by towny

I'm not sure I'm following you. Are you saying that male victims of abuse suffer a lesser standard of treatment when receiving counselling, so therefore women should receive a lesser standard too?

yes thats what im saying. Cause It's obvious from my previous posts that i think all people should be treated the same, not matter how badly.

Originally Posted by zendawn

yes thats what im saying. Cause It's obvious from my previous posts that i think all people should be treated the same, not matter how badly.

My apologies. I just wanted to be certain of the facts before I tell you I think you are stark, raving mad.

Originally Posted by towny

If Graham were online just now, he might have suggested your argument is flawed by a Circular Reasoning fallacy.

Please don't drag me into this or assume that I would support your position.

I have already made my views on this issue clear.