Dazzle Video Creator 80 or 150 ???

[Mike]

Hi all

I need to get video from my VCR to hard drive and have seen the above two products from dazzle. Has anyone used these and if so which one would you recommend. If not how have other people done it ???

Any comments gratefully recieved.

Regards

Mike

[erol]

I havr done this using an old miro media card (DC10 I think) and more recently using an ATi AIW graphics card (9800se AIW) and before that a nvidia fx5600ultra card with video in on it.

What kind of graphics card to you currently have because personaly I would consider using the money you are going to spend on the dazzle product to buy a new graphics card instead. Plenty of the more recent graphics cards have video in functionality these days.

Just one option really.

[paulyoung666]

another point is .......... , is your hard drive 5400 rpm or 7200 rpm , you risk dropping frames if it is the former speed


also the overall spec of your system would be of use as well

[Mike]

Originally Posted by erol

I havr done this using an old miro media card (DC10 I think) and more recently using an ATi AIW graphics card (9800se AIW) and before that a nvidia fx5600ultra card with video in on it.

What kind of graphics card to you currently have because personaly I would consider using the money you are going to spend on the dazzle product to buy a new graphics card instead. Plenty of the more recent graphics cards have video in functionality these days.

Just one option really.

What I am trying to 'get my head around' is the best way to get it into my PC

[erol]

Originally Posted by Mike

What I am trying to 'get my head around' is the best way to get it into my PC

Basically the video player will output an analogue signal. The output will either be via an s-video cable or a composite video cable (and sound output as well, either via s-video or by left and right 'phono' leads).

This output needs to connect to some kind of 'box' either in the pc or attached to the pc, that will allow you plug either s-video leads or composite video leads into it and will then digitise the analogue video input (and compress it) and in turn output it as data to the PC.

You can get external boxes that do this (like the dazzle boxes) or you can use an internal PC card to do it. Internal PC cards can either be dedicated to this task or it can be combined with other functions (like the functions of the PC's graphics card).

As Paul points out how fast the computer can write data to it's harddrive can be an important factor. Because the analogue video is comming in live, the PC has to write out the digitised and compressed data at least as fast as the signal comming in, otherwise it simply 'drops' some of the frames comming in leading to less than perfect video as a result.

I hope this is more the kind of 'advise' you were looking for? If not keep asking and I am sure we will get there in the end

[Mike]

[QUOTE=paulyoung666]another point is .......... , is your hard drive 5400 rpm or 7200 rpm , you risk dropping frames if it is the former speed

Really showing my lack of knowledge .................how do I confirm rpm on my HD ???

[erol]

[QUOTE=Mike]

Originally Posted by paulyoung666

another point is .......... , is your hard drive 5400 rpm or 7200 rpm , you risk dropping frames if it is the former speed

Really showing my lack of knowledge .................how do I confirm rpm on my HD ???

If you find out the name/make/serial number of your hardrive and google it you should be able to find out.

More important that the actual spindle speed of the HD (though obviously related) is the actual real world throughput you can achieve on your system as far as sustain writing of data to the HD goes. There are many utilites / testers that should be able to calculate this foryou, though I can't think of one of the top of my head right now. I am pretty sure someone here can suggest one. If not then I'll try and find one for you. (actually I think this would probably do the trick http://www.sisoftware.co.uk/index.ht...86&langx=en&a=)

How much throughput you need is a difficult calculation and depends on many factors, though principaly the resolution of the digitised video stream and the compression used. In very rough terms digitising at 720*576 and using standard mpeg2 compression (common settings) you would want (and this is a rough guess) around 7MB/s throughput or more on writing data out to the HD.

going back a step another approach to getting the video 'into' the computer would be to use a digital recording device to 'digitise' the video. If for example you had a DV video camera (and provided it has a firewire data output on it) you could record from analogue video to the digital DV camcorder (which does the digitisation for you). Then connect the DV camcorder to a firewire port on the comptuer (you may need to buy a firewire card if you comptuer does not have one already) and 'simply' transfer the digital data from the camcorder to the HD. With this approach the writing speed of the HD does not matter because the computer can say to the camcorder 'wait a minute while I write that out', which it can't do when you are digitising a live analogue feed from a vcr.

It's pretty hard to give more specific advice really without knowing a lot more about what your 'application' is. If it's just a case of wanting to transfer some personal VHS tapes to digital format on the computer then personally I would for a grpahics card with video in facilites. Something like an ATI AIW 9600 or 9800 would do the job and would cost from about £100-£300 depending on which model you choose.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by erol

If you find out the name/make/serial number of your hardrive and google it you should be able to find out.

going back a step another approach to getting the video 'into' the computer would be to use a digital recording device to 'digitise' the video. If for example you had a DV video camera (and provided it has a firewire data output on it) you could record from analogue video to the digital DV camcorder (which does the digitisation for you). Then connect the DV camcorder to a firewire port on the comptuer (you may need to buy a firewire card if you comptuer does not have one already) and 'simply' transfer the digital data from the camcorder to the HD. With this approach the writing speed of the HD does not matter because the computer can say to the camcorder 'wait a minute while I write that out', which it can't do when you are digitising a live analogue feed from a vcr.

It's pretty hard to give more specific advice really without knowing a lot more about what your 'application' is. If it's just a case of wanting to transfer some personal VHS tapes to digital format on the computer then personally I would for a grpahics card with video in facilites. Something like an ATI AIW 9600 or 9800 would do the job and would cost from about £100-£300 depending on which model you choose.

Erol

Many thanks for your time in this reply.

I have been using Abode premiere for some time now with good results and now burn avi to DVD using Movie Factory 3. My video camera is a Panasonic NV DS150 which has av / s video and firewire. But the problem is the av and s video appear to be for out put from the camera only and not input. The fireware is both in and out but obviously can not connect this to the VCR playing the VHS tape.....unless I am missing something !!!

It would have been ideal to have the option to input direct into my camera and that was my starting point but it does not seem to be possible.

Many thanks again for any comments


Regards

[paulyoung666]

Originally Posted by Mike

Erol

Many thanks for your time in this reply.

I have been using Abode premiere for some time now with good results and now burn avi to DVD using Movie Factory 3. My video camera is a Panasonic NV DS150 which has av / s video and firewire. But the problem is the av and s video appear to be for out put from the camera only and not input. The fireware is both in and out but obviously can not connect this to the VCR playing the VHS tape.....unless I am missing something !!!

It would have been ideal to have the option to input direct into my camera and that was my starting point but it does not seem to be possible.

Many thanks again for any comments


Regards

the output will likely be only be output if you see what i mean , it is something to do with tax costs , you used to be able to get adaptors to adapt different format video tapes to fit standard vhs players , i dont know if that helps you

[erol]

Originally Posted by Mike

Erol

Many thanks for your time in this reply.

I have been using Abode premiere for some time now with good results and now burn avi to DVD using Movie Factory 3. My video camera is a Panasonic NV DS150 which has av / s video and firewire. But the problem is the av and s video appear to be for out put from the camera only and not input. The fireware is both in and out but obviously can not connect this to the VCR playing the VHS tape.....unless I am missing something !!!

It would have been ideal to have the option to input direct into my camera and that was my starting point but it does not seem to be possible.

Many thanks again for any comments


Regards

OK Things are getting a bit confused here. I will try and clarify.

I assumed your video source was VHS (analog). With an analogue source you need to do two things. 1 - digitise the analgue video (turn it into a datastream) and 2 - get the datastream onto your computer. Thus the suggestion to record from VHS to DV was one means of achieving part one (digitisation) as DV is a digital format (unlike VHS which is analogue).

It would seem that your source is in DV format and thus already a datastream. This actually makes things a lot easier. All you need to do in this senario is transfer the datastream on the DV cassett to the PC. As your camcorder has a firewire output, all you need is a firewire input on the PC (which you may or may not already have) and some software. I believe premiere will work as the software.

So you need a firewire port on the computer. If it does not currently have one then one can be added as a PCI card. See here for the sort of thing required. http://www.softwareandstuff.com/CRD10134.html

You will also need a firewire cable that will go from the camcorder to the firewire port on the PC (this is the physical connection)

Finally you need some software to handle the thransfer of the datastream on the camcorders casset to the PC. I am pretty sure that adobe premiere will be able to do this. If not then you will need some kind of software to do it.

In summary you need.

Firewire port on the PC (either exists already or can be added via a PCI card)
Firewire cable
Some sw.

I think we are getting close now

[Mike]

[QUOTE=erol]OK Things are getting a bit confused here. I will try and clarify.

I assumed your video source was VHS (analog). With an analogue source you need to do two things. 1 - digitise the analgue video (turn it into a datastream) and 2 - get the datastream onto your computer. Thus the suggestion to record from VHS to DV was one means of achieving part one (digitisation) as DV is a digital format (unlike VHS which is analogue).

It would seem that your source is in DV format and thus already a datastream. This actually makes things a lot easier. All you need to do in this senario is transfer the datastream on the DV cassett to the PC. As your camcorder has a firewire output, all you need is a firewire input on the PC (which you may or may not already have) and some software. I believe premiere will work as the software.

QUOTE]

Sorry confusion is my fault..............the source is analgue / VHS. The success I refer to the the digital film taken on the panasonic camera it's just I have some old VHS tapes which I want to convert to digital.

I do have a firewire/adobe preimere/nero which works fine.

Does this make sense !

Regards

[erol]

Originally Posted by Mike

Sorry confusion is my fault..............the source is analgue / VHS. The success I refer to the the digital film taken on the panasonic camera it's just I have some old VHS tapes which I want to convert to digital.

I do have a firewire/adobe preimere/nero which works fine.

Does this make sense !

Regards

OK I am finally with you

So as I (currently) see it there are two approaches you can use to get the video from VHS to your computer.

approach one

Record the VHS video onto DV and then use your camcorder/firewire route to get it into the computer.

problem

The DV camcorder does not have analogue video in ports.

possible solution 1

find someone with a miniDV camcorder that does have analogue inputs. Borrow their camcorder. Record the VHS tape onto the DV. Put the DV tape into your camcorder and transfer it to PC.

possible solution 2 (not a very good one, sorry)

play the vhs tape on a TV. Point your DV camcorder at the TV and record the picture on the TV. The transfer to PC

approach 2

buy an internal card or external box that has analogue inputs on it and will digitise the VHS analogue stream (and save it to the hard drive).

internal card or external box options

You could get a stand alone internal card. Something like the first one in this list (and most of others too) will do the job
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/TV_Cards.html. I have tried to see what resolutions / frames rates this card is able to captur at but have so far failed.

You could get an external box. Either of the dazzle boxes you mentioned will do the job. The 80 box is USB 1 and this limits the capture resolution to 384*288 at 25fps. The 150 box uses USB2 and thus can handle resolutions to 720*576 at 25fps. You will need to have USB2 ports on the PC (and not USB1) to get the most from the 150 box. Personaly I do not 'rate' these boxes.

The third option would be to replace your PC's current graphics card with one that allows analgue video in (digitisation and capture). Something like the 9800se AIW card will do the job at 25fps in 720 X 576 (this is the card I have btw). Details here (2nd item in list). There are many other graphics card that have vido in functions as well. The choice is vast.http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatal...ics_cards.html

Anyway I hope that gives you an idea of your options. My personal choice would be to borrow a DV camcorder that has analogue in and transfer from VHS to DV. Then from DV to PC (via your tried and tested route). This is also the cheapest option . I do not really like the external boxes but that may just be prejudice / bias on my part. At the end of the day either of the dazzle boxes will do what you want (depending on your res requirments).

as ever HTH more than it confuses. Good luck.

[paulyoung666]

i reckon you have nailed it there , the borrowed camcorder route

[erol]

Originally Posted by paulyoung666

the output will likely be only be output if you see what i mean , it is something to do with tax costs ,

Yep some arcane EU import tax difference on video recorder compared with camcorders (designed presumably to punish japan/ far east for making good products cheaply!). Video recorders attract a higher import duty than camcorders. A camcorder with video in functionality can be used to record TV programms and thus is taxed as a video recorder. Thus many far camcorder makers simply disabled analogue in on their camcorders for sale in europe. A real pain imo. Some re disbled merely in software nd cn be unlocked (kind like mobiles can be unlocked from only using one provider) so this may be an option for you Mike.

Originally Posted by paulyoung666

you used to be able to get adaptors to adapt different format video tapes to fit standard vhs players , i dont know if that helps you

Well first off you can only go from small to big using these (and mike needs to go from big(VHS) to small (DV)
Secondly these adapters only work if the format of the recording is essentially the same, just in a smalle form factor casing (like from miniVHS to normal VHS) - they will not, as far as I know allow you to go from an analogue format to a digital one.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by paulyoung666

i reckon you have nailed it there , the borrowed camcorder route

Paul.......how right you are. I only have a couple of old videos to do and have just 'phoned a friend' who has a camera that will do it.

Erol and Paul I really apprecaited the help and time on this matter. I now know the way forward and I am sorry for the confusion I caused.

Thanks for sticking at it.

Kind regards


Mike