US Veto Again

[TigaSefi]

Originally Posted by Scooby

ok about 2 years ago i remember seeing TV pictures of a young boy and his dad being shot at by Israel fprces they were trying to hide so they wouldn't die but the soldiers kept shooting, finally they killed both of them in front of the worlds media.

*shakes head*

But I guess you think thats ok do you?

Actually he was killed by his own people but no one listened. And if you want I'll find the evidence.

[TigaSefi]

And another thing I want to say is that when someone accuses of Israel destroying houses willy nilly, that isn't the case at all. What really happens is that the Hamas Terrorists come to you and say we're taking your house and use it as a base and you and ur family must stay as "protection". If u decided that u do not want to be part of it, tough, we'll start executing your family members such as wives and children. So when the Israeli soldiers try and get to the terrorist, unfortunately sometimes the family gets in the way. And the houses are destroyed to stop it being used again. Of course most media and pro arab ppl will not report on it cos most of the time the family too frightened to say anything.

Just like the man next door to your is too frightened to say that crack dealers have taken over his house and deals from there and the police arrest him and the others through no fault of his own.

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by TigaSefi

And another thing I want to say is that when someone accuses of Israel destroying houses willy nilly, that isn't the case at all. What really happens is that the Hamas Terrorists come to you and say we're taking your house and use it as a base and you and ur family must stay as "protection". If u decided that u do not want to be part of it, tough, we'll start executing your family members such as wives and children. So when the Israeli soldiers try and get to the terrorist, unfortunately sometimes the family gets in the way. And the houses are destroyed to stop it being used again. Of course most media and pro arab ppl will not report on it cos most of the time the family too frightened to say anything.

Just like the man next door to your is too frightened to say that crack dealers have taken over his house and deals from there and the police arrest him and the others through no fault of his own.

http://www.btselem.org/English/Publi...estruction.asp

When I was very much younger I wholeheartedly supported Israel and I sneered at Vanessa Redgrave and Jane Fonda for their support of the Palestinian's cause.However I did not know HOW the Israeli state came about.
As time has gone on and I've learned how that happened and I've seen the way in which the Israeli government have time and time again taken more and more extremist actions against the Palestinians I've begun to wonder just who is the terrorist in this situation.The Israelis come down hard on the Palestinians and then Hammas comes back much stronger and then the whole tit for tat just escalates further and further down a bloody path of violence.

Maybe if the Israelis do build themselves into a fortess there may be a breathing space.I don't hold out much hope of it though.

There is much wrong on both sides and it is not going to bring any peace to the area until both sides acknowledge that both sides have done much to be ashamed of.Until they can face up to the fact that playing the blame game will not stop the violence.There can be no unilateral disarmament and both sides have to come to the table in good faith to sort out any kind of peace.

I don't think it will happen in my lifetime UNLESS we get a US president who will stand up to the lobbyists and a UN that WILL insist on troops being deployed to stop any conflicts.

Left to themselves both sides will never see peace at this rate.

And all the while the situation festers the war on terrorism seems doomed to failure.

[etccarmageddon]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

There is much wrong on both sides

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

I don't think it will happen in my lifetime UNLESS we get a US president who will stand up to the lobbyists and a UN that WILL insist on troops being deployed to stop any conflicts.

Left to themselves both sides will never see peace at this rate.

And all the while the situation festers the war on terrorism seems doomed to failure.

Wise words!

Originally Posted by etccarmageddon

I agree - Incog, I think you summed it up brilliantly, firstly, the description of your evolution from idealism to pragmatism & secondly the 'much blame on both sides' paragraph.

Isn't enough, actually 'enough', quite right, Incog - can't they stop playing this 'blame game' and start a real peace process.

[Tezcatlipoca]

Originally Posted by Scooby

So why just not vote?!?

I believe thats what the UK did, there is no reason to veto it!

The UK abstained from voting.

Originally Posted by danielf

I think it has more to do with the fact that there is a powerful Jewish lobby in US politics. The US seems to support Israel unless there is absolutely no chance of getting out of it. If they can find an excuse to veto a resolution condemning Israel, they will.

Actually, I think most of the current pro-Israel pressure on the US government comes from the Christian Right. The Bush Administration listens to them as that is where BushCo gets the bedrock of its support from.

But, yes, AFAIK the US has historically vetoed pretty much any UNSC resolution that was critical of Israel.

Originally Posted by Damien

Quite odd though its usually france who love to use their veto

Actually, Russia is the country to have exercised the most UN Security Council vetoes (most of them when it was still the USSR)

2nd place goes to the US, 3rd to the UK, then France, & then finally China.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/data/vetotab.htm

China: 4-5

France: 18

UK: 32

USA: 79

USSR/Russia: 121

Here is a list of all the UNSC resolutions which have been vetoed, & who they were vetoed by:

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security...o/vetosubj.htm

[Tezcatlipoca]

Originally Posted by Incognitas

There is much wrong on both sides and it is not going to bring any peace to the area until both sides acknowledge that both sides have done much to be ashamed of.Until they can face up to the fact that playing the blame game will not stop the violence.There can be no unilateral disarmament and both sides have to come to the table in good faith to sort out any kind of peace.

I don't think it will happen in my lifetime UNLESS we get a US president who will stand up to the lobbyists and a UN that WILL insist on troops being deployed to stop any conflicts.

Left to themselves both sides will never see peace at this rate.

And all the while the situation festers the war on terrorism seems doomed to failure.

Agreed, Incog.

Very good points there.

Originally Posted by Tezcatlipoca

The UK abstained from voting.





Actually, I think most of the current pro-Israel pressure on the US government comes from the Christian Right. The Bush Administration listens to them as that is where BushCo gets the bedrock of its support from.

But, yes, AFAIK the US has historically vetoed pretty much any UNSC resolution that was critical of Israel.




Actually, Russia is the country to have exercised the most UN Security Council vetoes (most of them when it was still the USSR)

2nd place goes to the US, 3rd to the UK, then France, & then finally China.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/data/vetotab.htm



Here is a list of all the UNSC resolutions which have been vetoed, & who they were vetoed by:

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security...o/vetosubj.htm

Yeah but france appear at the most annoying time

[Tezcatlipoca]

Originally Posted by Damien

Yeah but france appear at the most annoying time

France has not Vetoed anything since 1989 (when it vetoed 2 different resolutions - each time together with the UK & USA).

So, I assume you are referring to Chirac's threat last year to veto the proposed "2nd Resolution" regarding Iraq?

yeah, Plus their general annoying stuff. Mainly chirac who is a annoying money grabbing fraud monkey

[Ramrod]

Jerrek.....excellent post #13, very good.
Same goes for #31 Tigasefi

[punky]

With all due respect to Scooby et al. that support the Palestinian cause, Israelis can't help being born in Israel, any more than I can help being born in England. I'm sure if they lived in Israel they'd have a different slant on things. Blaming Israelis is not the way to go.

The truth is the single most incompetent entity in the universe (the UN) created this mess, and have steadfastly refused to get themselves out of it. Everyone says it is the US' problem, but it is not. Kofi Annan should start actually doing something to earn his $293,000 a year salary. I feel for the Palestinians, and they are hard done by, but rather than going through the UN like they should of, they used Islamic hatred of Judaism, to reclaim what land they think is theirs, and to get rid of Judaism, killing 2 birds with 1 stone.

Also, this whole Bush only supports Israel thing is not quite true. Remember when Bush, Sharon and the Palestinian guy (Abbas?) met up, and the 3 talked together. I remember specifically, people saying that Bush stood up for the Palestinians, and overruled Sharon most of the time. I rememeber one quote quite clearly. Sharon said he wouldn't do X, and Bush just turned round and said: "Oh, I think you will". (Trying to find a quotation for it now).

One other thing, I have never managed to get a good explanation about. Islam was founded in around 500AD-600AD, depending on what you class as the start. Now, Judaism goes back to between 2000BC and 3000BC. If Judaism came along between 2600-3600 years before Islam, and claimed the lands then, then how can Islam come along fairly recently and reclaim what the Jews have already claimed? If anyone has any links about it, i'd be much obliged.

The pointis attrocities are being commited by both sides. No one will ever win.

Israel was created by the UN, you try finding the State of Israel on a map pre 1947 (i think it was setup in 1947 but thats off the top of my head).

Israel behaved admirably when Saddam was raining scuds down on them in 1991, but since then they have become a thorn in the side, they regularly commit attrocities against the palestinians whos answer is to carry out suicide bombings, whish Israel retaliates too and then its the Palestinians all over again. The best thing to do in my oppinion is inform both sides that either they both quit or they will both be occupied and policed by NATO.