Newport Cleppa Park

[Stuartbe]

Originally Posted by orangebird

they don't work for ntl anymore!!!!

Pardon ? I did not quite here that - Getting a bit deaf in my old age

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by stuartbe

Pardon ? I did not quite here that - Getting a bit deaf in my old age

Sorry for the font size, but patience never has been an evident virtue of mine, nor do I suffer fools very gladly....

[scrotnig]

Originally Posted by Neil

Hallelulah!

Thank you Stu-that is exactly the point that I have been making.

I agree with Neil on this occasion.

[slimshady]

sounds like typical ntl - no today love

[Neil]

I'm not sure what I am doing wrong here....

1) All companies offer discounts/perks/benefits to staff.

2) All companies should discount all offers/perks/benefits properly to protect all parties.

3) If documented correctly by a company, in the case of an outsourcing deal, when TUPE is applied, those staff will retain all those (properly documented) benefits/perks/discounts.

4) If not documented properly by a company, then the staff who will be outsourced will lose their benefits.

What part of this am I not making clear?

OB/Nem, I suggest that you tell all the employees who are bing outsourced that there's a perfectly good reason that they will now lose those discounts/perks/benefits, even though they are being TUPE'd, but everything that is documented will be honoured by their new employers (Fujitsu)

I think OB & Nem-sorry, but you are both missing the point.

TUPE is there to protect employees in the event of an outsource, in these people's case they will lose their freebies because ntl did not write it into their contracts-fact.

Fujitsu will inherit the employees current salary/holiday entitlement/length of service, etc (assuming they have been properly documented!)

So.....

2 questions......

Why should they lose their associate package of free Family Pack/telephone line rental/half price other products?

Why are they losing their associate package of free Family Pack/telephone line rental/half price other products?

Family pack=£2 8.00 per month (currently!)=ÂÂà ‚£336.00 per year that these employees will be worse off through no fault of their own.

You may think that that 'is life', I do not happen to agree.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Neil

I'm not sure what I am doing wrong here....

1) All companies offer discounts/perks/benefits to staff.

No they don't Neil.

2) All companies should discount all offers/perks/benefits properly to protect all parties.

As far as your concerned maybe....

3) If documented correctly by a company, in the case of an outsourcing deal, when TUPE is applied, those staff will retain all those (properly documented) benefits/perks/discounts.

How exactly do you retain a perk or benefit offered by a company you don't work for?

4) If not documented properly by a company, then the staff who will be outsourced will lose their benefits.

Yes. And?

What part of this am I not making clear?

It's all clear Neil, just entirely unrealistic

OB/Nem, I suggest that you tell all the employees who are bing outsourced that there's a perfectly good reason that they will now lose those discounts/perks/benefits, even though they are being TUPE'd, but everything that is documented will be honoured by their new employers (Fujitsu)

Neil, there are associates employed by ntl that don't receive the same perks (ie digi services) as other associates still employed by ntl purely because of the on/off-net situation. Why should employees who no longer work for ntl get the perks that those that still work for ntl cannot get for one reason or another?

I think OB & Nem-sorry, but you are both missing the point.

No, I'm totally clear on what you're saying Neil - I just think it's a crock.

TUPE is there to protect employees in the event of an outsource, in these people's case they will lose their freebies because ntl did not write it into their contracts-fact.

TUPE is there to make sure that the employees contractual rights belonging to their job are not lost or compromised. A perk is not a right. It's as it says, A PERK. How many time does it have to be explained to you why the perks are not written into the contract? Why do you ignore any post that might give reasonable and acceptable explanation to your questions?

Fujitsu will inherit the employees current salary/holiday entitlement/length of service, etc (assuming they have been properly documented!)

Correct.

So.....

2 questions......

Why should they lose their associate package of free Family Pack/telephone line rental/half price other products?

Why are they losing their associate package of free Family Pack/telephone line rental/half price other products?

For the last time - BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO BE EMPLOYED BY NTL TO RECEIVE THESE - AND THEY'RE A PERK, NOT A CONTRACTUAL RIGHT!!!!!

Family pack=£2 8.00 per month (currently!)=ÂÂà ‚£336.00 per year that these employees will be worse off through no fault of their own.

You may think that that 'is life', I do not happen to agree.

And as I said earlier, the deal is not done yet - what the TUPE guys might be worse off with in one hand could be compensated in another. But I guess that possiblility doesn't suit your current agenda of sl4gging ntl off at every opportunity, does it?

Question for you - if that's how YOU think it should be, answer me this question - how would you deal with the salaries as far as receiving taxable benefits go?

Do you know of any legal, best practice way to tax an associates salary because of a benefit that the company who pays their salary doesn't provide????.....

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Neil

I'm not sure what I am doing wrong here....

1) All companies offer discounts/perks/benefits to staff.

Originally Posted by Orangebird

No they don't Neil.

Yes they do-ever worked for a company that didn't give it's staff a dickount of some sort on it's given product?

Originally Posted by Neil

2) All companies should discount all offers/perks/benefits properly to protect all parties.

Originally Posted by Orangebird

As far as your concerned maybe....

My bad-that should have read-"All companies should document all offers/perks/benefits properly to protect all parties-it's still a fact.

Originally Posted by Neil

3) If documented correctly by a company, in the case of an outsourcing deal, when TUPE is applied, those staff will retain all those (properly documented) benefits/perks/discounts.

Originally Posted by Orangebird

How exactly do you retain a perk or benefit offered by a company you don't work for?

By documenting it properly in the first instance of course.

Originally Posted by Neil

4) If not documented properly by a company, then the staff who will be outsourced will lose their benefits.

Originally Posted by Orangebird

Yes. And?

Ok-I will say it again....

The fact is that ntl have not protected their staff by documenting their accociate package properly, & now those people being outsourced will lose that.

Originally Posted by Neil

What part of this am I not making clear?

Originally Posted by Orangebird

It's all clear Neil, just entirely unrealistic

Unrealistic to expect ntl to protect the interests of their staff you mean?

Originally Posted by Neil

OB/Nem, I suggest that you tell all the employees who are bing outsourced that there's a perfectly good reason that they will now lose those discounts/perks/benefits, even though they are being TUPE'd, but everything that is documented will be honoured by their new employers (Fujitsu)

Originally Posted by Orangebird

Neil, there are associates employed by ntl that don't receive the same perks (ie digi services) as other associates still employed by ntl purely because of the on/off-net situation.

Not relevant, you cannot lose out on what you never had to start with.

Originally Posted by Orangebird

Why should employees who no longer work for ntl get the perks that those that still work for ntl cannot get for one reason or another?

Becasue ntl should have documented their associate package correctly, that's why.

Originally Posted by Neil

]I think OB & Nem-sorry, but you are both missing the point.

Originally Posted by Orangebird

No, I'm totally clear on what you're saying Neil - I just think it's a crock.

You are entitled to your opinion-but that's what it is-an opinion, mine is a fact.

Originally Posted by Neil

TUPE is there to protect employees in the event of an outsource, in these people's case they will lose their freebies because ntl did not write it into their contracts-fact.

Originally Posted by Orangebird

UPE is there to make sure that the employees contractual rights belonging to their job are not lost or compromised.

Why was it not written into their contracts if it being offered to them as part of their overall package then??

Originally Posted by Orangebird

A perk is not a right. It's as it says, A PERK. How many time does it have to be explained to you why the perks are not written into the contract? Why do you ignore any post that might give reasonable and acceptable explanation to your questions?

But it is offered to staff as part of their overall package.

Originally Posted by Neil

Fujitsu will inherit the employees current salary/holiday entitlement/length of service, etc (assuming they have been properly documented!)

Originally Posted by Orangebird

Correct.

I know.

Originally Posted by Neil

So.....

2 questions......

Why should they lose their associate package of free Family Pack/telephone line rental/half price other products?

Why are they losing their associate package of free Family Pack/telephone line rental/half price other products?

Originally Posted by Orangebird

For the last time - BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO BE EMPLOYED BY NTL TO RECEIVE THESE - AND THEY'RE A PERK, NOT A CONTRACTUAL RIGHT!!!!!

That's where you are mistaken-When I used to work for IBM, I received certain benefits that the company I was TUPE'd into didn't/doesn't offer, but I still get these benefits as they were part OF TUPE.

So no-you don't have to work for a particular company to receive previous benefits where TUPE is concerned, you are quite simply-mistaken.

Originally Posted by Neil

Family pack=£2 8.00 per month (currently!)=ÂÂà ‚£336.00 per year that these employees will be worse off through no fault of their own.

You may think that that 'is life', I do not happen to agree.

Originally Posted by Orangebird

And as I said earlier, the deal is not done yet - what the TUPE guys might be worse off with in one hand could be compensated in another.

That may be, but whatever happens, it looks like they will lose their assocaite package whgich is not fair.

Originally Posted by Orangebird

But I guess that possiblility doesn't suit your current agenda of sl4gging ntl off at every opportunity, does it?

No more than it suits your current/past agenda of defending them at every opportunity, no.

Originally Posted by Orangebird

Question for you - if that's how YOU think it should be, answer me this question - how would you deal with the salaries as far as receiving taxable benefits go?

They should (as I have been saying from the start0 ) have all been documented in a professional manner, if they had-we wouldn't be having this 'conversation'

Originally Posted by Orangebird

Do you know of any legal, best practice way to tax an associates salary because of a benefit that the company who pays their salary doesn't provide????.....

Does the taxman know about the associate package? (He knew about mine as I told him, although Nicola Irvine from ntl actually told us that ntl wouldn't be disclosing it to the taxman-go figure.

If you pay tax on it (I'm sure you do), then you are entitled to keep it under TUPE, but it doesn't look like people will be able to keep it under TUPE, because of the way ntl documented it (or didn't)

But it's on the Intranet, so that's ok.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Neil

Yes they do-ever worked for a company that didn't give it's staff a dickount of some sort on it's given product?





My bad-that should have read-"All companies should document all offers/perks/benefits properly to protect all parties-it's still a fact.





By documenting it properly in the first instance of course.






Ok-I will say it again....

The fact is that ntl have not protected their staff by documenting their accociate package properly, & now those people being outsourced will lose that.





Unrealistic to expect ntl to protect the interests of their staff you mean?





Not relevant, you cannot lose out on what you never had to start with.



Becasue ntl should have documented their associate package correctly, that's why.





You are entitled to your opinion-but that's what it is-an opinion, mine is a fact.





Why was it not written into their contracts if it being offered to them as part of their overall package then??



But it is offered to staff as part of their overall package.





I know.





That's where you are mistaken-When I used to work for IBM, I received certain benefits that the company I was TUPE'd into didn't/doesn't offer, but I still get these benefits as they were part OF TUPE.

So no-you don't have to work for a particular company to receive previous benefits where TUPE is concerned, you are quite simply-mistaken.





That may be, but whatever happens, it looks like they will lose their assocaite package whgich is not fair.



No more than it suits your current/past agenda of defending them at every opportunity, no.



They should (as I have been saying from the start0 ) have all been documented in a professional manner, if they had-we wouldn't be having this 'conversation'



Does the taxman know about the associate package? (He knew about mine as I told him, although Nicola Irvine from ntl actually told us that ntl wouldn't be disclosing it to the taxman-go figure.

If you pay tax on it (I'm sure you do), then you are entitled to keep it under TUPE, but it doesn't look like people will be able to keep it under TUPE, because of the way ntl documented it (or didn't)

But it's on the Intranet, so that's ok.

Nice evasion of all my questions Neil. So, how would you propose it works then?

edit actually, don't bother. Am bored. It's like UDT back in the place....

Just one thing - the associate package is a perk, not a benefit. Get over it.

[ian@huth]

I think that there are a lot of assumptions being made about what will happen regarding these "perks". The thing to do is for someone to ask the question of the people that matter before the changeover takes place. A good old saying that is worth remembering is "if you don't ask , you don't get".

There have been a number of words bandied about in this thread regarding associates benefits, perks, offerings, etc. The consensus of opinion seems to be that if these are not written into the contract of emloyment then they will be lost. The truth of the matter is that a contract of employment does not actually have to be written to be valid and a written contract does not necessarily state the full contract details that exist between the employer and employee.

TUPE looks at protecting employees rights when undertakings are transferred. It basically looks at the situation in the same way that an Industrial Tribunal would look at an unfair dismissal claim. In an unfair dismissal award "perks" are also taken into account when determining the weekly earnings of the claimant. So, if your renumeration included say, slaray, company car, gym membership and private medical insurance, the weekly value of all of these would be totalled to arrive at your weekly pay. It does not matter that not all other employees of the company that you work for don't take advantage of the gym membership because there is no gym near enough to them, it is what you yourself get that is important.

I am with Neil on this subject and would suggest that any employee that is being transferred and thinks that they are likely to lose out on associate benefits should ask for the matter to be clarified ASAP.

[Mr_Burns]

I believe that when the IT associates were transferred from ntl to IBM, they were 'bought out' of their subsidised services. Has anyone from Cleppa Park confirmed that they will be losing their perk and not being compensated for it?

[Busby]

We have asked but have been told that no decision or official word has come up as yet.

I guess it's up to Fujitsu and the T.U.P.E.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by Neil

Yes they do-ever worked for a company that didn't give it's staff a dickount of some sort on it's given product?

I've worked for two companies that give absolutely no discount on it's products, a pension (with an absolutely stupid add to rate) was all I got.

The majority of comapnies give discounts, not all.

Surely the question is, would Fujitsu PAY ntl for the subsidised digiTV for transferred associates?

[carlingman]

Apologies if I break the record for bumping the oldest thread back up but method in my madness.



Having been an ex crew member of online house/caradaog house in cleppa park days meself then my question does have some relevance.

Does anyone or is anyone still employed by the old VISP side that I believe either transferred to Cardiff/Swansea or moved to the new building in St Mellons.

I looking for a little help or some contact details for anyone involved with the move as believe they once considered a move to a location in Celtic Springs.

Any help or pointers greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Carling