Newport Cleppa Park

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

.... erm .....

Aren't we talking about "perks" of the job ...

They are benefits that are offered to ntl employees that live in an ntl area (obviously staff that don't can't get them anyway)

These come and go and are never guaranteed, with any job. It's not just NTL that do this type of thing, many others do it too. That's life .. I really don't see this as and NTL thing ...

They are important enought to be on the Intranet.

and anyway, are the undocumented perks really why they took the job ?????

Is that really the point here? (no)

The point is that ntl's failure to document something properly, has led to some of their staff losing that benefit when they needn't have.

I have lost benefits under TUPE, so I know exactly what I am talking about.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Neil

They are benefits that are offered to ntl employees that live in an ntl area (obviously staff that don't can't get them anyway)



They are important enought to be on the Intranet.



Is that really the point here? (no)

The point is that ntl's failure to document something properly, has led to some of their staff losing that benefit when they needn't have.

I have lost benefits under TUPE, so I know exactly what I am talking about.

Neil, you seem more upset than the ntl employees about this.....

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Neil

They are benefits that are offered to ntl employees that live in an ntl area (obviously staff that don't can't get them anyway)

No, they're associate offers.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Neil

They are benefits that are offered to ntl employees that live in an ntl area (obviously staff that don't can't get them anyway)

So not available to all, and would therefore not be an eligible part of a contract. People can move, terms and conditions can change, the perks can be added to and removed. Not a contractual obligation.

Originally Posted by Neil

They are important enought to be on the Intranet.

What is an intranet?

An intranet is a private network operating on a web server within your company.

Your company's manuals, HR information, and any other internal information can be organized on an internal web site that operates like an Internet site - without necessarily being connected to the Internet.

Content is accessed by employees using browser software such as Microsoft Internet ExplorerÂÂÂÂ ® or Netscape NavigatorÂÂÂà ‚®. All information contained and distributed on an intranet is secured by a firewall, which limits access to users inside your company.

An intranet allows organizations to communicate to employees internally and at branch offices easily and accurately.


Therefore many things are important enough to be communicated on the Intranet, the benefits to certain employess, being one

Is that really the point here? (no)

The point is that ntl's failure to document something properly, has led to some of their staff losing that benefit when they needn't have.

Their employer has changed, therefore the benefits change or are lost, this has happened to me twice over the last year ...

These 'benefits' are still perks of the job, they are documented, and are not available to all anyway, their employer has changed, therefore the 'benefits' offered by the previous company are no longer relevant.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by orangebird

No, they're associate offers.

And the difference is....?

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Neil

And the difference is....?

Quick definitions (offer)


noun: something offered (as a proposal or bid) (Example: "Noteworthy new offerings for investors included several index funds")
noun: the verbal act of offering (Example: "A generous offer of assistance")
noun: a usually brief attempt
verb: produce or introduce on the stage (Example: "The Shakespeare Company is offering `King Lear' this month")
verb: make available or accessible, provide or furnish (Example: "The conference center offers a health spa")
verb: present for acceptance or rejection (Example: "She offered us all a cold drink")
verb: make available for sale (Example: "The stores are offering specials on sweaters this week")
verb: offer verbally (Example: "He offered his sympathy")
verb: propose a payment (Example: "The Swiss dealer offered $2 million for the painting")
verb: present as an act of worship (Example: "Offer prayers to the gods")
verb: put forward for consideration (Example: "He offered his opinion")
verb: threaten to do something (Example: "I offered to leave the committee if they did not accept my proposal")
verb: make available; provide (Example: "The bank offers a good deal on new mortgages")
verb: agree freely (Example: "I offered to help with the dishes but the hostess would not hear of it")
verb: mount or put up (Example: "Offer resistance")
verb: ask (someone) to marry you


Quick definitions (benefit)


noun: something that aids or promotes well-being
noun: a performance to raise money for a charitable cause
noun: financial assistance in time of need
verb: be beneficial for
verb: derive a benefit from

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

So not available to all, and would therefore not be an eligible part of a contract. People can move, terms and conditions can change, the perks can be added to and removed. Not a contractual obligation.

Yes available to all (associates that live in a cabled area)

<snip>

I know what an intranet is.

Therefore many things are important enough to be communicated on the Intranet, the benefits to certain employess, being one

Agreed.

Their employer has changed, therefore the benefits change or are lost

Not at all, those benefits should be carried across under TUPE.

this has happened to me twice over the last year ...

I'm sorry to hear that, I've been there too.

These 'benefits' are still perks of the job

'Perks' that should still have been properly documented to protect all parties.

they are documented, and are not available to all anyway,

The availability if them is not relevant, if you didn't have it before TUPE, you won't have it after TUPE.

their employer has changed, therefore the 'benefits' offered by the previous company are no longer relevant.

Not at all, in fact, quite the opposite.

If ntl had documented them properly-the 'benefits offered by the previous company' would be carried over into Fujitsu.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by orangebird

Quick definitions (offer)

verb: make available; provide (Example: "The bank offers a good deal on new mortgages")

or 'ntl offered free cable TV & telephone line rental to associates'?

Quick definitions (benefit)

verb: derive a benefit from

Which applied to ntl staff (but not to those transferring to Fujitsu)

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Neil

I know what an intranet is.

I thought you might

Not at all, those benefits should be carried across under TUPE.

I've just re-read the TUPE document you posted ..... exactly where does it mention the transfer of the "benefits", "offers", or "perks".

It's more about the contract of employment, and the transfer of the IP, etc. It's there to protect the employee from being mismanaged or abused.

Perks are just that ... perks ... NO company will add them to it's Contract of employment.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

I thought you might

I've just re-read the TUPE document you posted ..... exactly where does it mention the transfer of the "benefits", "offers", or "perks".

It's more about the contract of employment, and the transfer of the IP, etc. It's there to protect the employee from being mismanaged or abused.

Perks are just that ... perks ... NO company will add them to it's Contract of employment.

New colours. Old thinking.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

I thought you might

I've just re-read the TUPE document you posted ..... exactly where does it mention the transfer of the "benefits", "offers", or "perks".

It's more about the contract of employment, and the transfer of the IP, etc. It's there to protect the employee from being mismanaged or abused.

Perks are just that ... perks ... NO company will add them to it's Contract of employment.

I think you may have misunderstood me (Or maybe I'm not being clear )

My point is not about what TUPE entitles you to, but the way in which ntl have documented (or rather haven't) a benefit that their staff get, & now those peeps will lose that benefit when they shouldn't IMO.

At the end of the day, a pension contribution is no more than a benefit/perk that the company pays outside of your normal 'wage', & if that payment wasn't getting carried across into Fujitsu because of poor documentation, would that make it any different? (Not in my eyes)

[Pierre]

When I used to work for cableTel we used to get free CATV as you might imagine, but also the people who lived "off-Net" could also get Sky or another CATV provider paid for by the company.

Then when the new T&Cs came out in 2001 it was written out. Might not sound much but it worked out to £420 per year.

The people who work for ntl but don't live in an ntl area are financially worse off than those on-net. They have promised a replacement scheme for the past 3 years but are still yet to come up with anything.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Pierre

When I used to work for cableTel we used to get free CATV as you might imagine, but also the people who lived "off-Net" could also get Sky or another CATV provider paid for by the company.

Then when the new T&Cs came out in 2001 it was written out. Might not sound much but it worked out to £420 per year.

The people who work for ntl but don't live in an ntl area are financially worse off than those on-net. They have promised a replacement scheme for the past 3 years but are still yet to come up with anything.

All true. And for 4 out of the 6 years I have worked for them, I've been off net, so I can see both sides.

ntl cannot afford to subsidise sky or the like packages for those off net at the moment.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Neil

I think you may have misunderstood me (Or maybe I'm not being clear )

My point is not about what TUPE entitles you to, but the way in which ntl have documented (or rather haven't) a benefit that their staff get, & now those peeps will lose that benefit when they shouldn't IMO.

At the end of the day, a pension contribution is no more than a benefit/perk that the company pays outside of your normal 'wage', & if that payment wasn't getting carried across into Fujitsu because of poor documentation, would that make it any different? (Not in my eyes)

Neil, a pension is far more important than cheap digi tv and bb.