lib dems: we will scrap council tax

[kronas]

the liberal democrats have vowed to scrap the council tax and have made it a policy pledge to voters......

instead a local income tax would replace the current system, which promises a 'fairer' balance in funds distribution......


source: BBC news

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3552455.stm

i would need a serious breakdown of 'real' financial stats to show me if it would be worth the axe, or will we see even higher rates ?

Originally Posted by kronas

the liberal democrats have vowed to scrap the council tax and have made it a policy pledge to voters......

instead a local income tax would replace the current system, which promises a 'fairer' balance in funds distribution......


source: BBC news

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3552455.stm

i would need a serious breakdown of 'real' financial stats to show me if it would be worth the axe, or will we see even higher rates ?

Where would they replace the lost revenue from? the only way to replace the council tax would be to increase other taxes. So its actually a bit of a joke if you look at it that way.

[kronas]

Originally Posted by timewarrior2001

Where would they replace the lost revenue from? the only way to replace the council tax would be to increase other taxes. So its actually a bit of a joke if you look at it that way.

the 'local income tax' is the scheme which would replace it.........

instead of funds being distributed by government, the local council would take care of the distrobution in key areas that need it........

[luftys]

yes right now we know its coming up to an election and people still fall for it

Originally Posted by kronas

the 'local income tax' is the scheme which would replace it.........

instead of funds being distributed by government, the local council would take care of the distrobution in key areas that need it........

aha - 18 & not in full time education, suddenly you have to either pay, or claim an exemption

who pays to administer these 'local taxes', Kronas? - why do we need an extra tier of organisation, like 'Yorkshire Forward'?

[Graham F]

Originally Posted by kronas

the liberal democrats have vowed to scrap the council tax and have made it a policy pledge to voters......

instead a local income tax would replace the current system, which promises a 'fairer' balance in funds distribution......


source: BBC news

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3552455.stm

i would need a serious breakdown of 'real' financial stats to show me if it would be worth the axe, or will we see even higher rates ?

To be honest who cares what the Lib Dems want to do, they will not win at the election so they could say anything IMO and it would not make a difference

[luftys]

Originally Posted by Scooby

To be honest who cares what the Lib Dems want to do, they will not win at the election so they could say anything IMO and it would not make a difference

dont they all do that,say wat they like then backtrack

Originally Posted by kronas

the 'local income tax' is the scheme which would replace it.........

instead of funds being distributed by government, the local council would take care of the distrobution in key areas that need it........

So some nutty "spend ... spend ... spend ... " council would be in charge . sounds like a brilliant scheme ....

[luftys]

and wat happens when the money runs out

[MovedGoalPosts]

Hmm, so nobody saw the BC2 Programme "If" last Wednesday, which mooted exactly the same idea, but the scenario was in 2014 a Local Income Tax had replaced Council Tax.

The problem there was the redistribution of the burden from one sector of the population onto another sector of the population.

Council Tax supposedly relates to the value of the property allbeit at 1991 values. Thus the larger the home in theory the more you could pay in tax. Great until you are a pensioner, or whatever that has ended up in a large house, through historically being there while you had a good income and standard of income, but once you retired, or whatever, that income went. However those stuck on a really low income might be able to get some form of income support or other concession, and of course if he persoon lives by themselves they do get 25% Council Tax deduction.

Income tax will place the majority of the burden on the semi professionals, managers and similar supposedly "high income" earners (although at current levels high income is not in fact that high - it's a comfortable level but not that comfortable). These are already heavily and possibly disproportionatley burdened by taxation, especially as such people will rarely, if ever, be entitled to any form of income suppport or other concessions. Meanwhile many of these "high income" earners do not in fact live in the larger houses for areas, as they could not afford to do so. Thus the tax burden could jump massively for some.

The Liberal democrats answer is not a good one IMO. They have already said they will raise general income tax levels to pay for their plans. Now they will further penalise a large sector of the population by doubling up with a local income tax.

I don't know what the answer to local council revenue needs is, but I don't think a local income tax is it.

I am aware that labour and liberal democrats are all for "redistribution of wealth", but at the moment I see very little evidence that the ever spiraling amounts we are paying is making a real difference to the front line. Meanwhile individual earnings are getting penalised, pension plans are getting taxed, and general standards of living for the private sector emloyed are slipping. At the same time the public sector employee enjoys protected pensions, often good holiday rights, and often a reasonable salary. It is indeed this pension timebomb inequality that is causing the biggest tax problems. If a political party was to have the balls to deal with that, fiddling with local and national tax would be a lot easier to address.

[sir_drinks_alot]

Originally Posted by luftys

and wat happens when the money runs out

sda becomes prime minister and makes everyone pay the same
tax rate

Originally Posted by Scooby

To be honest who cares what the Lib Dems want to do, they will not win at the election so they could say anything IMO and it would not make a difference

I'm not so sure. The fact is that people are getting seriously pi$$ed off with Labour's lies, half truths and deceptions, they wouldn't trust the Tories as far as they could throw them, there is a distinct possibility IMO that a lot of people will either not bother to vote, or go Lib Dem as a protest.

If enough of them do, we could see the big shake in UK politics that we so badly need.

Originally Posted by MovedGoalPosts

Income tax will place the majority of the burden on the semi professionals, managers and similar supposedly "high income" earners (although at current levels high income is not in fact that high - it's a comfortable level but not that comfortable). These are already heavily and possibly disproportionatley burdened by taxation, especially as such people will rarely, if ever, be entitled to any form of income suppport or other concessions. Meanwhile many of these "high income" earners do not in fact live in the larger houses for areas, as they could not afford to do so. Thus the tax burden could jump massively for some.

It's a good point, but I think a large proportion of that has been due to Gordon Brown's stealth taxes, ie doing everything possible to keep the revenue coming in (raising NI, taxing small business dividends etc) whilst avoiding putting up Income Tax because Labour have got themselves in a stupid "bidding war" with the Tories over who can go the longest before blinking and saying they'll put tax up.

The Liberal democrats answer is not a good one IMO. They have already said they will raise general income tax levels to pay for their plans. Now they will further penalise a large sector of the population by doubling up with a local income tax.

But at least they're being *honest* about it and I think that's what a lot of people want because they're fed up with the other two parties trying to hood-wink them.

Surveys have shown that a lot of people would agree with eg an extra penny on income tax if the money was ring-fenced to target education, so putting up taxes is not necessarily a bad thing.

[MovedGoalPosts]

exactly the stealth taxes, and political bidding war are big issues. I agree the Lib Dems are at least being open by saying they will raise income tax. However, by now the Stealth Taxes should be raising at least the amount that the Lib Dems wanted from income tax, over the last couple of elections (that policy has been around that long I think), so yes Ok raise income tax by a penny and reduce the stealth taxes, might be reasonable. But to want even more money. Where does it stop?

The problem has to be that at some point enough has to be enough and we have to also determine if we are getting value for money out of this increased taxation, however it is being raised. On balance I have to say we aren't. It seems to me to be going into increased beaurocracy, red tape (the increasing accountability and compensation culture is a major nightmare, which creates such a paper trail in all walks of life that does nothing for actually getting something done), and of course trying to fund an ever increasing public service pension bill, while the private pension plans (which the givernment urges us to have) get raided more and more.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Scooby

To be honest who cares what the Lib Dems want to do, they will not win at the election so they could say anything IMO and it would not make a difference

They are the only Party that don't use Tory policies..

Although I would love to see the Council Tax scrapped (it won't be a fair tax until the property bands are re-assessed), I am not sure replacing it with a local income tax is a good idea. It's not a bad idea, but it does sound like more of the same.