Book Review - Dude, where's my country

erol · 10-03-2004, 23:48

Just (almost) finished 'Dude, where's my country' by Michael Moore.

I was already a big fan or of Mr Moore's work all the way back from 'Roger and Me ' (and through bowling for coloumbine and stupid white men)

I thought this latest book of his is simply his best work ever. It made me laugh, it made me think and it gave me hope. What more could you ask ?

I thouroghly recommend it. Buy it, read it, tell others about it is my opinion

danielf · 10-03-2004, 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by erol

Just (almost) finished 'Dude, where's my country' by Michael Moore.

I was already a big fan or of Mr Moore's work all the way back from 'Roger and Me ' (and through bowling for coloumbine and stupid white men)

I thought this latest book of his is simply his best work ever. It made me laugh, it made me think and it gave me hope. What more could you ask ? <snip>

Just waiting for the movie

Edit: I thought bowling for columbine (the movie) was brilliant. Sadly I do so much reading at work, I don't seem to enjoy reading for pleasure very much anymore...

punky · 11-03-2004, 01:51

I know im not going to win awards for this, and cue plenty of pro-MM flaming, but hear me out. I don't really want to get into a fight over this, because its been covered before, ad nauseam. Anyway, here goes. The first I really started getting into Moore was when I started reading SWM. I was reading it and I was gripped. Everything I read astonished me. But then only a very short way into the book, I thought. "Hmm. That contradicted what he said earlier", and then I started seeing all the tell-tale signs of liars: contradictions, no references, and points not tying into surrounding points properly. I was so confused, I started researching the points he said, to try and find out definitively, whats what, and found out myself, that at best, he took half truths and distorted them (for entertainment value I presume), and at worse, were down right lies. Then I watched BFC, and that was just as bad. Well, now i've seen enough to know he's really not to be trusted. Eventually I came along the following sites. I advise you to look at the sites below which help try and reveal the truth behind, the "truth", as it were. Have a quick read of the sites below, and then see if you still agree with him. If you do, great. I know I would of want someone to told me about these before I got so absorbed into him. But anyway, here's a few of sites, in no particular order:

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
http://www.mooreexposed.com
http://www.moorelies.com
http://www.moorewatch.com

It may take a bit of reading to get through the subjective opinions through to the bare facts, but it could make you see a whole different side of Moore. There's plenty more, this is just what I could rememeber off the top of my head. Before you dismiss those sites without a read, rememeber this: The one thing everyone says about anti-Moore fans, is that "our minds are too closed to the awful truth", so while your mind is open, keep it open just a bit longer to to the possibility that Moore might not be telling the truth, with everything he says.

erol · 11-03-2004, 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky

and then I started seeing all the tell-tale signs of liars: contradictions, no references, and points not tying into surrounding points properly. I was so confused, I started researching the points he said, to try and find out definitively, whats what, and found out myself, that at best, he took half truths and distorted them (for entertainment value I presume), and at worse, were down right lies.

Moore is a unabashed and unashamed 'populist' and that requires that things be presnted in a populist way. If you want a rigorous academic verifyable version of what is for me essentialy saying the same stuff them Noam Chomsky is your man and not MM. Noam Chomsky is an acedemic of the highest order. He work is not humorous or easy to read sometimes. Everything quoted has it's sources laid out. For me he does reach a very similar place in the end as MM does. I see them asd opposite side of the same coin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
http://www.mooreexposed.com
http://www.moorelies.com
http://www.moorewatch.com

It may take a bit of reading to get through the subjective opinions through to the bare facts, but it could make you see a whole different side of Moore. There's plenty more, this is just what I could rememeber off the top of my head. Before you dismiss those sites without a read, rememeber this: The one thing everyone says about anti-Moore fans, is that "our minds are too closed to the awful truth", so while your mind is open, keep it open just a bit longer to to the possibility that Moore might not be telling the truth, with everything he says.

I will certainly give those sites a read when I get a chance. However _if_ MM has got close to some truths that threaten an elite then it would be surprising if there were not attempts to rubbish him. I have not read your links so I am not saying they represent this, just that such attempts would be an inevitable consequence of getting near 'truths'.

BBKing · 11-03-2004, 16:14

What about Al Franken then? More readable than Michael Moore to my mind, if you enjoy intelligent left wingers ripping the right to shreds (and I do).

punky · 11-03-2004, 17:59

If MM lies, then I don't think it really matters what motivates a person to blow the whistle on him.I don't have any sinister right-wing agenda to discredit him, it's just to me it reminds me of the wrestling thing, when I was young. Everyone said that wrestling was fake and I never believed them. Then when I saw the proof I felt like a schmuck, I just wish I saw it sooner. Trouble is with most of the sites they tend to be more subjective opinions (ie Is Moore with a $1.25m penthouse in Manhatten, who earns $35,000 a night doing talks an appropriate spokesman for socialist issues?), such is the heated feeling about him at the moment. But the facts are there.

As with Al Franken, i've never really read him. I read a bit he wrote trying to put down Bill O'Reily, and didnt put O' Reily in a good light. He's much more demure, and hopefully less hypocritical. I assume he's more honest because i've never heard any about myth-debunking sites about him as I have about Moore.

Edit: I mentioned it to a friend he said he heard of one here. I haven't read it yet, so I don't know if its good or not, but I though i'd include it in the issues of fairness and balance.

Jerrek · 11-03-2004, 18:51

Fahrenheit 9/11 - September 2004

Michael Moore Hates America - same day as Fahrenheit 9/11
Get the trailer here: http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/

BBKing · 11-03-2004, 20:26

Well, laying aside the laughable idea that because someone's rich they can't be left wing, there is certainly an interest in the right squashing Moore by highlighting any inconsistencies, after all the reason he's rich is that people bought his book and the reason he won an Oscar is that people liked his film, which makes him dangerous.

His best weapon there is to use some of his earned money on researching and documenting his case properly and highlighting inconsistencies and evasion in the people he's attacking, who have far more money and power than he'll ever have.

ic14 · 11-03-2004, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerrek

Fahrenheit 9/11 - September 2004

Michael Moore Hates America - same day as Fahrenheit 9/11
Get the trailer here: http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/

LMAO!!! jerrek, you really belive that he hates america?

Jerrek · 11-03-2004, 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by ic14

LMAO!!! jerrek, you really belive that he hates america?

Absolutely. As an American, he offends me. Just carrying a gun makes him hate me.

philip.j.fry · 11-03-2004, 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerrek

Absolutely. As an American, he offends me. Just carrying a gun makes him hate me.

He's a member of the NRA.

erol · 12-03-2004, 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by philip.j.fry

He's a member of the NRA.

and a pretty critical member at that

punky · 12-03-2004, 12:57

I don't think he hates America per se, but he certainly doesn't have any respect for his country what so ever. There are no end of quotes along the lines of "All americans are the stupidest people on the planet" (behind Canada and England), and from memory, he has also called them, selfish, naive, ignorant, and a whole host of derogatory comments I can't think of atm.

Theres a bit of a difference between being just left wing, and being a socialist, although there is a fair amount of overlap. Most left wingers believe in pro-choice, gay rights, more social security for all etc. They aren't communists, in the same way as they want the government to share out their paycheque, and destroy capitalism. Moore tries to be the latter, which as you quite rightly said before BBKing, Moore is a product of pure capitalism. He gave a lot of easily led people what they wanted, and he made a lot of money out of it. That is in direct contrast to the socialist agenda he tries to maintain. Do you know he tried to charge the columbine children's family to watch a prescreening of BFC? Seems old Mikey can't see where the "utopia of socialism ends and the stench of capitalism" begins. I've even spoken to a few people who are MM fans who agree he is a huge hypocrite, but still love him, because they believe he says what noone else is willing to say. (Hell, i'd say screw capitalism, Bush is a war criminal, etc. if it would of made me that kind of money.)

Anyway, I dont want to get into another huge fight on MM, because its been done before. It's all rather pointless too, because for people who are so heavily left-wing would believe MM if he said black is white and the Sun revolves around the Earth.