base pack + sky sports pack

[Shaun]

At the end of the day, if you take Ntl's telly for what ever reason (be it not being able to get sky etc.) you are FORCED to take their phone line, some may be happy with that but personally I think it stinks of Ntl's regular arrogance. Not the most customer focused decision they ever made

[Chrysalis]

dellwear I couldnt agree with you more, although I want a phoneline I think some people might not want a phoneline so should have the choice

eg. Bt line with ntl tv.

[Stephen]

Yea but ntls calls are cheaper than BT.

Originally Posted by dellwear

At the end of the day, if you take Ntl's telly for what ever reason (be it not being able to get sky etc.) you are FORCED to take their phone line, some may be happy with that but personally I think it stinks of Ntl's regular arrogance. Not the most customer focused decision they ever made

ntl are trying to make money. They don't make much from cable TV as they have to pay the likes of Sky for the content. The phoneline however is where profit can be made as they don't have to pay anyone else for it.
By combining the TV and phoneline, they can compete in terms of price with the equivelent Sky and BT price. Its not arrogance its good business sense.

[seaneeboy]

Sky don't FORCE you tot ake a BT line, but they'll try and get you to by any way they can - another case of "Unless you know what you want we'll give you what works best for us"

[seaneeboy]

Oooh, and when NTL Bundle in a phone line it's usually because it's cheap as anything for them to wire it in as part and parcel. They don't actually charge a line rental or anything as it really doesn't cost them any more to have the phone line into your house... At least that's what I *think* anyway

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Proppinupthebar

ntl are trying to make money. They don't make much from cable TV as they have to pay the likes of Sky for the content. The phoneline however is where profit can be made as they don't have to pay anyone else for it.
By combining the TV and phoneline, they can compete in terms of price with the equivelent Sky and BT price. Its not arrogance its good business sense.

Forcing your product on your customers is not 'good business sense'. It is rude & arrogant, & sums up ntls's attitude towards it's customer IMHO.

Good business sense is all about offering a choice to your customers, & the reason that ntl don't is that they obviously know that their phone package is inferior to BT's (& also that it would make it much easier for an ntl customer to get ADSL if they had a BT phone line), & that (IMO) is why they force it on people.

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Neil

Forcing your product on your customers is not 'good business sense'. It is rude & arrogant, & sums up ntls's attitude towards it's customer IMHO.

Good business sense is all about offering a choice to your customers, & the reason that ntl don't is that they obviously know that their phone package is inferior to BT's (& also that it would make it much easier for an ntl customer to get ADSL if they had a BT phone line), & that (IMO) is why they force it on people.

Apart from not being able to offer caller display in all regions, why is ntl's phone package inferior to BTs?

I'm sure, depending on how you use your phone, one package may suit an individuals needs more than the other, but surely that's not inferior??

[Neil]

Originally Posted by orangebird

Apart from not being able to offer caller display in all regions, why is ntl's phone package inferior to BTs?

I'm sure, depending on how you use your phone, one package may suit an individuals needs more than the other, but surely that's not inferior??

Not being able to offer Caller display in most regions.

If it's not inferior to BT's, then why do ntl force their phone line on their TV customers?

If it was better, or even equivalent to, BT's service then surely they wouldn't have to?

And don't call me Shirley!

[orangebird]

Originally Posted by Neil

Not being able to offer Caller display in most regions.

No Neil, it is in only some regions - Typically ESE on ICMS. If anyone on here in CS cares to correct me, please do.

If it's not inferior to BT's, then why do ntl force their phone line on their TV customers?

If it was better, or even equivalent to, BT's service then surely they wouldn't have to?

BT don't offer cable television, so on the whole, it's not a very good comparison...but the reason ntl 'bundle' (as opposed to 'force'... ) their telephone and cable tv services is to gain quick revenue from the phone bills to offset a relatively expensive install for cable tv which would take over a year from the bills of the average customer to break even on (let alone and heaven forbid, make a profit on ... ). And the fact that a lot of customers do prefer to have both services from one supplier.

And don't call me Shirley!

I'll stick to SPOD then...

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by DarthYoda

Yea but ntls calls are cheaper than BT.

They are not cheaper for me with my calling pattern and if you look carefully at what call prices are available via a BT line then you would be hard pushed to find anyones calling pattern cheapest on a NTL line.

Originally Posted by seaneeboy

Sky don't FORCE you tot ake a BT line, but they'll try and get you to by any way they can - another case of "Unless you know what you want we'll give you what works best for us"

I have Sky with a NTL telephone line ( to be dumped when the special offer finishes unless they alter their charges) and have never been approached by Sky to move to BT or had any contact from them regarding the line I use.

Originally Posted by seaneeboy

Oooh, and when NTL Bundle in a phone line it's usually because it's cheap as anything for them to wire it in as part and parcel. They don't actually charge a line rental or anything as it really doesn't cost them any more to have the phone line into your house... At least that's what I *think* anyway

NTL charge £9.50 for telephone line rental or include it in a TV package which is normally £9.50 dearer than Sky's for a similar package. At the moment NTL haven't passed on the latest Sky price increase but no doubt soon will.

Originally Posted by orangebird

BT don't offer cable television, so on the whole, it's not a very good comparison...but the reason ntl 'bundle' (as opposed to 'force'... ) their telephone and cable tv services is to gain quick revenue from the phone bills to offset a relatively expensive install for cable tv which would take over a year from the bills of the average customer to break even on (let alone and heaven forbid, make a profit on ... ). And the fact that a lot of customers do prefer to have both services from one supplier.

Call it bundle or force but the end result is that if you want NTL DTV you have to have, or pay for, the telephone line. It may take a while to recover the cost of the TV installation just as it takes Sky a while to recover the slightly higher cost of having a satellite up there. If customers prefer to have both services from one supplier there is nothing to stop them switching to NTL phone of their own volition rather than having it forced on them. Most people like having multiple services from the same supplier because you normally get a discount by doing so, but not in the case of NTL. As I said earlier, NTL telephone call charges are not the cheapest and they would more than likely lose a massive number of phone customers if the line wasn't bundled with the TV. I think that much of the advertising of telephone call prices is flawed in comparing with BT standard pricing rather than BT Together pricing.

Originally Posted by ianathuth

Call it bundle or force but the end result is that if you want NTL DTV you have to have, or pay for, the telephone line. It may take a while to recover the cost of the TV installation just as it takes Sky a while to recover the slightly higher cost of having a satellite up there.

Sky do not put the satellites up there, they just rent space from SES ASTRA or Eutelsat.

[ian@huth]

Originally Posted by Proppinupthebar

Sky do not put the satellites up there, they just rent space from SES ASTRA or Eutelsat.

That's why I said "having" rather than "putting".

[$ky]

When I subscribed to Sky they tried to force me to take a BT line saying if I didn't I couldn't get Sky, it was only because I work for ntl that I knew this was bu||$h!t so don't just pass the blame to ntl. Also a comparison between ntl and BT, both providers offer a simular talk unlimited 24 service, ntl charge 15.50 a month whereas BT charge 19.00 per month. Another one: ntl unlimited dial-up internet (24/7) is just 10.00 per month, with BT you have to pay 15.99 a month (already a rip-off) plus you only get 150 hours per month on the net! So to look at it in that perspective it is cheaper to get ntl phone and TV services together and people would be stupid not to want to, who wants to pay BT's ludacrous prices anyway?

Originally Posted by ianathuth

That's why I said "having" rather than "putting".

They rent the transponders on an ongoing basis, they don't pay a one off fee. So how do they recover the cost?