[BIG MERGE] Ntl/TW merger - what if...?

[Hell's Child]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

because both companies are guilty of buying franchises and not cabling the areas, they shouldnt be allowed to spend money on a merger when they have contracts to honour.

As stated, the contracts only state a % of the area has to be servicable. Thing is, people complain about lack of service and demand that Technology should be upgraded, then others complain about no-cabled area branding it should be "illegal" to merge when there are unservicable areas within each franchise.
Which do you want? Unfortunatally you cannot have both, given the cash flow situation of the company. People seem to forget that ntl have $billions of debt that it both incured itself and also took on when taking over other cable companies (C&W etc) due to the original cost of cabling (and that was over 10 yrs ago). Unlike BT this money wasn't from a goverment pot and the backers will not spend another $billion?? or so which quite frankly would set the company back another 10-15 yrs!
Merger seems a clever option (and yes will make shareholders/directors alike a big payout) and, if they keep their jobs you'd have thought they would have rejected the money and insist it goes back into the company although I doubt that will happen, and us "lower" ntl employees will have to hit extended targets to make the money up.
Simple thing is though, I can't see it being a merger and looks more likey thaty ntl is trying to find cashflow from everywhere (extended targets/cost reduction exercises) to buy telewest out with the promise to give more shareholing to the banks etc in return for some cash.

That's how I feel on the matter anyway, call me cynical but it WILL happen but not for another couple of years.
I

[andygrif]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

because both companies are guilty of buying franchises and not cabling the areas, they shouldnt be allowed to spend money on a merger when they have contracts to honour.

You can't stop companies being run by greed ridden bafoons I'm afraid. ntl was guilty of nothing more than greed, mismanagement, over-ambition, lack of skill and ultimately (becuase of the previous) lack of money. None of which is, or should be, illegal.

Merging the two companies is the only way forward, because the two companies made such a mess of the system that was in existence before.

It will stimulate a little more competition, it will increase slightly their buying power (bandwidth, Sky channels, even van leasing plans) which will overall reduce the combined companies' outgoings.

This is good, becuase there is a remote possibility that some of this money saved will be used to develop the network and services - like they promised to do about five years ago.

[SMHarman]

Originally Posted by Hell's Child

<snip>
Merger seems a clever option (and yes will make shareholders/directors alike a big payout) and, if they keep their jobs you'd have thought they would have rejected the money and insist it goes back into the company although I doubt that will happen, and us "lower" ntl employees will have to hit extended targets to make the money up.
Simple thing is though, I can't see it being a merger and looks more likey thaty ntl is trying to find cashflow from everywhere (extended targets/cost reduction exercises) to buy telewest out with the promise to give more shareholing to the banks etc in return for some cash.

That's how I feel on the matter anyway, call me cynical but it WILL happen but not for another couple of years.
I

From a tax and accounting point of view it will / has to be a merger so the benefits of merger accounting can be used.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Pierre

When they bought the franchises they only had to cable a percentage of each franchise not all of it.

Then a few years ago the government said that they didn't have to cable any more if they didn't want to.

Why should they cable unprofitable small populated areas - which is virtually all that is left now.

When the time is right and they have the capitial I'm sure they will start up a limited build program.

Unprofitable areas are not the only ones left, I'm sure any employee or ex-employee in the know in other areas of the country could tell you similar to what I know about the old franchise area that I worked in.

The government only stopped pushing them to meet the targets because thyey knew it was impossible to enforce them to be met, many areas in the South Wales franchise have fibre for business and universities etc with spare capacity but have never been cabled for residential use. Some of these areas even have ducting in place around residential streets that were put in place as long ago as 1995-96 by CableTel, these areas remain untouched with a lot of wastd cash already sitting in the ground.

There are many stories of bad management when discussing network build, like the industrial unit that ntl bought in Bridgend! they had fibre running through Bridgend between Cardiff and Swansea but some bafoon bought a building that was nowhere near this fibre and totally in the wrong place for cabling the town anyway, they eventually sold the building after about 5 years, they had paid rates on it for this period and there was a big laugh locally when they couldn't find the key to let the estate agents in to view the property, as they had not set foot in the building in the five years that they had owned it.

SMHarman talked about sharing poles etc, ntl aquired a lot of old overhead networks in South Wales with very good customer penetration. These people were paying lots of money for 13 or so analogue channels, and the South Wales valley areas have always been know to be where the money is for CATV services, as people tend to stay in to watch a video etc instead of having a trip to the local wine bar like they do in the cities.
ntl closed these systems including an 860MHz Broadband system, and many of them had ntl fibre trunks a reasonably close distance away. ntl then started playing around with MVDS microwave video distribution systems in South Wales, that went nowhere so they then played with wireless broadband WHAM in South Wales, we all know what happened to that one.
They then played about with a 3G distribution system that failed because the operators wanted to use ntl's systems in London and this was the area that ntl didn't want them near because the build quality is so bad, and it would be a nightmare in terms of cost and managing to pu it right.

The reason behind all the failures has been employing the wrong people and lack of cash, the cash was short long before the general public or CSA realised.

ntl have been strapped for cash for years, too much money was wasted early on and thats the bottom line.

[Chrysalis]

yeah also the area's that are cabled but are not digitalised yet.

all of you who think a merger is good, you will be proven wrong as all that will happen is job losses and a lower quality service for blueyonder users.

What will be interesting is to see how they will deal with the 2mbit situation, because they will effectively start out with a situation where under the new merged company some area's will have 2mbit internet and no cap and other area's will be limited to 1mbit with cap, and I cannot see ntl changing it so we all get 2mbit with no cap.

[Rik]

Hmmm 2Meg
Gimme Gimme Gimme

I hope this happens sooner rather than later, but I also hope we dont see a deteroration in service, as im happy with it at moment (1Meg.Hertfordshire)

[ntl customer]

If ntl and Telewest do merge, then I think that ntl and Telewest should keep what they are strong at, and hand over the part in which they are weak at to the other company.

For example I would like to see ntl hand over their broadband operations over to Blueyonder, so we would get all the benefits of Blueyonder such as no cap, reliable email, upfront no-bull status page etc.

I very much doubt this will happen in practise though, it's probably all driven by profit and I think at the end of the day how much money they can make is probably going to be paramount, above everything else

Originally Posted by ntl customer

If ntl and Telewest do merge, then I think that ntl and Telewest should keep what they are strong at, and hand over the part in which they are weak at to the other company.

For example I would like to see ntl hand over their broadband operations over to Blueyonder, so we would get all the benefits of Blueyonder such as no cap, reliable email, upfront no-bull status page etc.

I very much doubt this will happen in practise though, it's probably all driven by profit and I think at the end of the day how much money they can make is probably going to be paramount, above everything else

This suggestion makes complete sense, which is the strongest possible indication that it stands no chance of actually happening. the way jobs are carved up in a newly expanded organisation has a lot to do with favours, the old boys network and informal discussions over dinner and not a lot to do with who is necessarliy best at the job.

Originally Posted by towny

This suggestion makes complete sense, which is the strongest possible indication that it stands no chance of actually happening. the way jobs are carved up in a newly expanded organisation has a lot to do with favours, the old boys network and informal discussions over dinner and not a lot to do with who is necessarliy best at the job.

Too bad fat cats are refusing to make business sense ... no wonder this country is going to the DOGS!

[Neil]

What I find interesting, is that Peter Savage (former MD for ntl Southern Region) is now working for Telewest (alledgedly).......

[asdf]

What part would Telewest hand over to ntl then? :p

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Neil

What I find interesting, is that Peter Savage (former MD for ntl Southern Region) is now working for Telewest (alledgedly).......

Not alledgedly - fact (AFAIK)

I can only guarantee one thing "when" they merge. There will be a massive power struggle and many good people on both sides will be lost

[asdf]

Isn't that always the case?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Not alledgedly - fact (AFAIK)

I can only guarantee one thing "when" they merge. There will be a massive power struggle and many good people on both sides will be lost

I can foresee the whole 'Cable & Wireless' scenario coming around again.

Then there will be ex ntl/ex C & W/ex Telewest areas to deal with, probably all getting differnet services/packages.

[Rorschach]

Is there a lawyer in the house?

While I think we're (mostly) agreed that the merger would be a good thing, would it not mean that NTelewestL (TM Me!) would have a complete monopoly on CATV.

Surely the Monopolies & Mergers Commision would have something to say about that!

Rorschach.