Merged-Manchester Browsing Slow.

[BBKing]

So answer me this - how come you're privy to ntl's NW BU churn data?

And this - since the last time proxies were enabled in Manchester (when there were quite definitely issues with them) has the number of people on ntl BB in the NW area gone
a) up or
b) down?

[th'engineer]

I would not like to comment on that part of the question reffering to churn data.

It has gone up with the marketing campaign

[etccarmageddon]

I've got this on the rep system ".....barring major probs they stay, they are vital. JAN00b"

I'm puzzled - this is a geniune question for you boffins .... why are they (the proxies) vital?

Proxies aren't vital - they can be very useful for cutting down on ISP to ISP traffic and (in theory) making browsing appear faster by caching websites.

Modern dynamic sites using asp, php etc can largely negate these advantages and can even make proxies seem slower as they keep having to go back to the original server for the pages.

Originally Posted by th'engineer

There was me thinking NTL had turned a corner, well in that case looks like theres nowt more to mention on the matter until the proxies fall over.

If people have problems and go to ADSL, suppose its not my loss but NTLs.

The difference from this year and last year is that most of the NW can get ADSL in NTL BB areas. Last year was slightly different, but BT have extended their coverage. So many providers are available, take no notice like last year when customers left and NW BU churn rate was high.

Sorry but i had to post.

Why is it that when posters on this forum cannot get there own way they resort to the "Move to adsl".

One of the reasons i have not posted on this forum is because when someone ask's for help they are told bin it and go adsl. I liked helping user on this forum and the .com site but how can i help when they are told get adsl.

Just to let you know BBking my browsing is fine here in warrington and i am on the proxy's.

There rant over

Bill C

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by pem

Proxies aren't vital - they can be very useful for cutting down on ISP to ISP traffic and (in theory) making browsing appear faster by caching websites.

Modern dynamic sites using asp, php etc can largely negate these advantages and can even make proxies seem slower as they keep having to go back to the original server for the pages.

They cut down traffic from PoPs to network borders, which could be very important in the future should access rates increase substantially - they do make a difference, unless you have stats of bandwidth they save pem I don't think you can really comment - they cache images and can do streaming media as well, think of the savings there.

[th'engineer]

The reason is to cut down bandwidth so saving NTL money and making more profit out of customers.

The minus side is that it takes people to maintain them therefore a fine tolerance is between intial and maintainance costs compared with bandwidth savings.

If you have minimal maintainance it saves money but more proxies and cost of maintainance negates savings

[th'engineer]

Originally Posted by Bill C

Sorry but i had to post.

Why is it that when posters on this forum cannot get there own way they resort to the "Move to adsl".

One of the reasons i have not posted on this forum is because when someone ask's for help they are told bin it and go adsl. I liked helping user on this forum and the .com site but how can i help when they are told get adsl.

Just to let you know BBking my browsing is fine here in warrington and i am on the proxy's.

There rant over

Bill C

Bill you know my views, but perhaps when a lion is caged in a corner like earlier in this post. Especially when certain posters have been getting a little personal. The debate gets heated and you put things in that perhaps needed more thought . My apoligies Bill

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by th'engineer

The reason is to cut down bandwidth so saving NTL money and making more profit out of customers.

The minus side is that it takes people to maintain them therefore a fine tolerance is between intial and maintainance costs compared with bandwidth savings.

If you have minimal maintainance it saves money but more proxies and cost of maintainance negates savings

Th'Eng when you have facts not your highly polarised opinion please come back to this, see the above, US cablecos are using combinations of caching, traffic shaping, and both soft and hard transfer caps to supply their higher data rates, and even then some users are reporting slow transfer rates and bad latency.

So... ntl are being left behind by ADSL for not doing 2Mbit, but aren't allowed to use caching, give any visible contention, traffic shape and certainly not transfer cap.

Presumably Th'eng the same source that gave you the churn rates has detailed analysis of the cost / profit the proxies run at. Though if we're running them to wring extra profit out of the helpless consumer, but you seem to know that they don't do that and actually cost maybe we should change. In fact you seem to know the company better than our entire management, engineering teams and board. Mystic Th'Eng?

Originally Posted by th'engineer

Bill you know my views, but perhaps when a lion is caged in a corner like earlier in this post. Especially when certain posters have been getting a little personal. The debate gets heated and you put things in that perhaps needed more thought . My apoligies Bill

You know from my conversations with you that the adsl tag is not aimed just at you

[th'engineer]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherN00b

. In fact you seem to know the company better than our entire management, engineering teams and board. Mystic Th'Eng?

Thank you for your kind comments very much appreciated

[Florence]

I haven't had any problems with speed. I have friends who have said things are slow yet I seem to still be fine.

Hello Bill C I am sure that many would rather have help and NTL workins correctly than go through the problems of moving back to BT and ADSL.

[Ignition]

Originally Posted by Kitty

I haven't had any problems with speed. I have friends who have said things are slow yet I seem to still be fine.

Hello Bill C I am sure that many would rather have help and NTL workins correctly than go through the problems of moving back to BT and ADSL.

If I remember right Kitty you don't go through Baguley you go through mant (Manchester Transit).

[Florence]

tracert taken while listening to a radio stream and sone playing CS.

Tracing route to www.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.30]
[ 1] ( 10.11.32.1 ) [ 20ms]
[ 2] ( 80.5.164.81 ) [ 10ms] oldh-t2cam1-a-ge-wan51-120.inet.ntl.com
[ 3] ( 213.104.242.41 ) [ 10ms] mant-t2core-a-ge-wan62.inet.ntl.com
[ 4] ( 62.253.184.57 ) [ 10ms] man-bb-a-so-230-0.inet.ntl.com
[ 5] ( 62.253.187.178 ) [ 20ms] man-bb-b-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com
[ 6] ( 62.253.185.138 ) [ 20ms] win-bb-a-so-300-0.inet.ntl.com
[ 7] ( 62.253.187.222 ) [ 10ms] win-dc-a-v902.inet.ntl.com
[ 8] ( 62.253.162.30 ) [ 20ms] www.ntlworld.com
-- Traceroute complete --

Originally Posted by Kitty

I haven't had any problems with speed. I have friends who have said things are slow yet I seem to still be fine.

Hello Bill C I am sure that many would rather have help and NTL workins correctly than go through the problems of moving back to BT and ADSL.

Hi Kitty

Sorry for that rant just had to get that off my chest

my tracert for Warrington

Tracing route to www.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.30]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 8 ms 5 ms 6 ms 10.15.16.1
2 7 ms 16 ms 6 ms bagu-t2cam1-b-ge-wan52-121.inet.ntl.com [80.5.162.213]
3 7 ms 8 ms 9 ms bagu-t2core-b-ge-wan63.inet.ntl.com [80.5.161.137]
4 8 ms 8 ms 12 ms lee-bb-b-so-300-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.188.29]
5 10 ms 7 ms 7 ms man-bb-a-so-700-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.193]
6 7 ms 14 ms 8 ms man-bb-b-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.187.178]
7 15 ms 13 ms 13 ms win-bb-a-so-300-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.138]
8 13 ms 13 ms 27 ms win-dc-a-v902.inet.ntl.com [62.253.187.222]
9 15 ms 14 ms 14 ms www.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.30]