Re-classification Of Cannabis

[Nor]

Originally Posted by dr wadd

This is where I walk away as my predictions are coming true, as soon as the discussion descends into tabloid rhetoric it isn`t worth having.

I don't think it is just tabloid rhetoric though. If you think about it, without all the melodrama, this is what happens. The cannabis doesn't just appear on the street in the pockets of dealers, there is a long line of people in between the source and him and these people are organised criminals. We also know alot of the terrorist funders use drugs as a means to raise money.

I know it does sound like a Daily Mail leader but nonetheless surely its true ?

[paulyoung666]

just seen this , right near the end of the article sorta backs up what i was saying

[Ramrod]

Bull Acad Natl Med. 1994 Jun; 178(6): 1029-37; discussion 1037-42. Related Articles, Links


[The four stages of drug addiction (based on clinical experience with 5,000 drug addicts)]
[Article in French]

Hovnanian L.

Comite National d'Information sur la Drogue, Saint Gratien.

A medical practitioner has been inquiring on the subject for eighteen years, and confronting the discrepancy between the facts observed and the social and psychiatric approach of the plague. His study of adolescent toxicomania was proceeding from the care of 1000 drug-fiends, plus a dialogue with 3000 schoolers and the interview of about one thousand drug-fiends on their way to recovery. Four stages have been made clear in the evolution of the disease. Stage 1--Contamination of 12 to 18 year-old-individuals, among whom 90% find a safe escape through mere self-defense (contamination from the cannabis "joint" in 95% of cases). Stage 2--Occasional users, one or two "joints", now and then, several times a month, for fun, out of submissiveness to a group or search for adventure or challenge. Stage 3--Regular use of one or several drugs entailing the spiral of dependency resulting in a distorted psyche, a disinterest in studies, marginality delinquency. Recovery is possible provided they give up the use of any drugs whatever thanks to firm ans understanding help from the family or and institution, avoiding any psychiatric response. Stage 4--Drud-fiends hooked to hard drugs such as cocaine, heroin, polytoxicomaniacs they have become the slaves of drugs, undergoing a severe physical and psychic decay, they feel lovely, consider drugs as they only friend, they have a suicidal behaviour. The immuno-deficiency caused by drug-use makes intercurrent diseases likely to strike. Recovery is still possible through drastic weaning treatment, even under constraint since they endanger their own lives, and a 12 to 18 months treatment of remotivation as well as training for social reinsertion. The therapeutic community, well organized and governed, is able to provide low cost solutions to a plague that too often comes to a deadlock. Although we can't say that first and second stage teenagers are real drug-fiends, on the contrary, third and fourth stage patients have necessary gone through stage 1 and 2. It can't be denied that they suffer from the same disease. Stage 1 and 2 teenagers and cured patients don't show the psychic decay and suicidal impulse of stage 3 and 4 patients. Such symptoms are the result of the use of drugs and not its cause. Consequently the role of the narcotic product is prevailing in the evolution of the disease.

[paulyoung666]

very interesting

[Sociable]

Originally Posted by dezzo

I don't see the point of doing this.

If they were going to do anything then full legalisation and taxation (with money raised going towards treatment/education of ALL drugs) would have been the best step. By making it class C the only people getting the benefit are the dealers.

Well said dezzo.

Despite what many may have assumed I did not indulge at all in the 60â₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s, so my thoughts on this topic are, I hope, based on a balanced assessment of the arguments for and against rather than any †œhippyâ € � belief that drugs should be free to all.

The only drug I believe should be completely free and unregulated is Love.

The big advantage of the full legalisation of cannabis is that it also allows regulation and control and I think your added idea of linking any taxation to treatment and education of ALL drugs is excellent btw.

I, like many disabled people, do indulge in the occasional †œsmoke⠀ Â� and would far prefer to obtain my †œmedicationÃƚ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚à ‚ÂÂ� legally. One main reason for this is the possibility of †œquality controlââ‚à ‚¬Ã‚ÂÂÂ� as, increasingly over the last year or so, much of the cannabis now available is adulterated with other compounds some of which may well be harder drugs added to give the product an addictive boost.

Taking control of cannabis away from dealers will, as many have already said, also give better protection to those who might be tempted to experiment with harder drugs as a consequence of coming into contact with dealers.

Anyway thatââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s this hippyââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s contribution to the debate other than to add the thoughts of my doctor on the issue as far as it relates to my own situation.

Many times has said he would actually feel far happier prescribing me with cannabis than he is now in prescribing the current cocktail of †œlegalâ € � drugs he is forced to right now. As a doctor he is very frustrated by the limited scope he has to take advantage of the known beneficial efficacy of an herbal remedy already tried and tested over a few thousand years.

The good news is that the initial trials of cannabis for use in a limited range of conditions is going well and there is a realistic expectation that it will be available as a presription drug eventually.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Bull Acad Natl Med. 1994 Jun; 178(6): 1029-37; discussion 1037-42. Related Articles, Links


[The four stages of drug addiction (based on clinical experience with 5,000 drug addicts)]

<snip>

But that does not say anything about the relative numbers of people going on to use hard drugs, and implies that those who do do so because they started off with cannabis without giving any reasons...

Fact is that the levels of Heroin addiction in Holland compare favourably to those in the rest of the West.

http://www.chrisdaviesmep.org.uk/new..._law_delay.htm

[Sociable]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

Bull Acad Natl Med. 1994 Jun; 178(6): 1029-37; discussion 1037-42. Related Articles, Links

[The four stages of drug addiction (based on clinical experience with 5,000 drug addicts)]
[Article in French]

Hovnanian L.
Comite National d'Information sur la Drogue, Saint Gratien.

There is one serious flaw in that research Ramrod and that is that it is based on a retrospective study of those ending up in full dependency on hard drugs rather than tracing the end result for a sample of 5000 starting out by having a few joints at some stage in their life.

Take a group of alcoholics and you would be able to place the blame for their dependence and addiction on alcohol on the very first glass of lemonade shandy or sip of communion wine they indulged in at some point in their past.

With cannabis it is fairer to look at the extremely high proportion of the population that have indulged at some point in their life and just how few of those have ended up moving on to harder drugs.

[Ramrod]

More here

[Sociable]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

More here

Again an interesting study Ramrod.

In fact this one backs up the contention we are making that divorcing the connection between cannabis and dealers probably provides the best hope of breaking the connection with the "drug culture" linked to its current illegality.

The phrase, "May as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb", springs to mind and by making a clear distinction between the legality of cannabis and the harder drugs this prompt can not be used by dealers when trying to coerce their users to take harder drugs.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

More here

I thought the first line was very interesting:

A study of Australian twins has found teenage marijuana smoking may open doors to harder drug abuse because smokers expose themselves to a drug lifestyle

The key word is lifestyle I think. I think this has more to do with social issues (such as the person supplying cannabis supplying harder stuff as well). I think the Dutch example shows, that if you separate hard and soft drugs, many people may experiment with cannabis, and take it as a recreational drug without going on to harder drugs. The relatively low levels of Heroine addiction in Holland may not directly prove this, but I would say it disproves the theory that the use of Cannabis inevitable leads to the use of hard drugs. Sure, those who end up on Heroin will most likely have started with a joint, but you need to take the relative numbers into account. Not everybody that drinks ends up an alcoholic either.

[Jerrek]

I'm in favor of the legalization of all drugs. Let people decide what they want to do with their own lives. It isn't my job to tell them. And lets get rid of this stupid War on Drugs.

Oh and, for the record, I've never taken weed or any other drug, nor do I intend to [it is legal in Canada].

[Nor]

Would heroine be cheap if it was supplied by the government ? Isn't something like 50% of crime drug related in Britain ? Most crime affecting people I'd say would be the druggies needing money to feed their habit.

[paulyoung666]

Originally Posted by Jerrek

I'm in favor of the legalization of all drugs. Let people decide what they want to do with their own lives. It isn't my job to tell them. And lets get rid of this stupid War on Drugs.

Oh and, for the record, I've never taken weed or any other drug, nor do I intend to [it is legal in Canada].

sorry but i think that is not the way to go , for one thng the extra burden on healthcare that i would in effect have to pay for

[danielf]

Originally Posted by paulyoung666

sorry but i think that is not the way to go , for one thng the extra burden on healthcare that i would in effect have to pay for

I have to agree with you there, but just as a thought: Heroin in its pure form, is actually not very harmful. Apart from it being mind altering and addictive, it does not do your body much harm. The stuff that is available on the street however, is very bad due to all the stuff it is mixed with...


Edit: just thought I'd add that you have to be a complete nutter to even consider taking it.

Originally Posted by dr wadd

<snip>
As for the argument that they would be tempted to try harder drugs, that relies on the old "cannabis as a gateway drug" argument, which has absolutely no evidence in support of it anyway.<snip>

Au contraire, Blackadder ... plenty of evidence to be found here:

http://www.newscientist.com/hottopic...oharddrugs.jsp

"the research shows that the gateway is real, so what implications does this have for drug laws?"

The article is in no doubt that the 'gateway' effect is real, but points out that exactly why the gateway effect exists is as yet unknown.