MERGED: God (all threads)

[kronas]

cardinal gustaaf joos who was made a cardinal by the pope last year, has stated that 10% of gays are actually gay and the rest are sexual perverts...

"I am willing to write in my own blood that of all those who call themselves lesbian or gay, a maximum of five to 10 percent are effectively lesbian or gay," Cardinal Gustaaf Joos, 80, told the Belgian weekly P-Magazine on Wednesday.

"Real homosexuals don't wander in the streets in colourful suits. Those are people who have a serious problem and have to live with that. And if they make a mistake they will be forgiven. We have to help these people and not judge them," Joos added.

"The Church...rejects homosexuality, not the homosexual," Joos said.

belgium's population on the whole is prodominantly catholic.......

[kronas]

a russain scientists has mathimatically proven that the 'parting of the waves' incident is simply not a miracle

he has stated there is a riff between 6 - 7 meteres under water from the bank of the gulf suez and the other where the exodus occured

more in the link provided

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm...html?menu=news

source ananova

[Fawkes]

Do people really still take notice of anything someone from the catholic church, or any other church for that matter says?

[kronas]

Originally Posted by Fawkes

Do people really still take notice of anything someone from the catholic church, or any other church for that matter says?

yes the followers who obey them.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by kronas

yes the followers who obey them.

Yes, we ALL obey EVERYTHING they say like mindless robots don't we.....

[Russ]

Hmm, so was he there to witness it? Nooooo. Doesn't explain how Moses was able to make it work on demand though does it?

People are welcome to believe any theories they want and use any formula to come up any result they see fit.

But 'proving' something did not happen thousands of years ago........I don't think so.

And for someone who objects to religion on nthw, another two threads started by him on the subject....

[downquark1]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Yes, we ALL obey EVERYTHING they say like mindless robots don't we.....

Yes must obey men in colourful dresses and strange hats ... oh wait are those the gay people he is describing or the priests?

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by downquark1

Yes must obey men in colourful dresses and strange hats ... oh wait are those the gay people he is describing or the priests?

These days it would seem that they are often one and the same

[Jon M]

Originally Posted by kronas

Those are people who have a serious problem and have to live with that. And if they make a mistake they will be forgiven. We have to help these people and not judge them,"

"The Church...rejects homosexuality, not the homosexual,"

Personally I think the two statements above are totally biblically accurate.

You got anything more than to say kronie? or should I start posting stuff I dislike about atheism with a witty to put my point across? I think I'd get a better reception if I put a balanced and factual arguement across instead don't you?

[Popeye]

if "god" can speak to everyone as they drone on about

how come he doesn't just do that and cut out all the middle men
with the collection trays and everything

and all the ranting and raving fanatics

Originally Posted by Russ D

Hmm, so was he there to witness it? Nooooo. Doesn't explain how Moses was able to make it work on demand though does it?

But how do you know that he did do it demand?

Imagine this situation. Moses turns up at the red sea, the natural effect takes place at just the right time, it looks like Moses has parted the waves so it is attributed to divine intervention and gets written up in the bible.

The counter-scenario is that Moses gets his timing wrong, the seas don`t part, Moses is considered a charlatan and the whole thing becomes a bit of a non-event that isn`t worth recording, or conversely even gets written up as some kind of false prophet so the message is completely reversed.

We both know each other's personal views on faith, so you've probably already guessed that I wouldn`t go with the first scenario, and I`m not attempting to demolish your beliefs. In fact, even a Christian could argue this point without undermining the rest of their beliefs. I`m simply curious as to whether an example of spectacularly good timing could be misinterpreted such that it becomes an article of fact for a particular religion.

[Jon M]

Originally Posted by Popeye

<snip>

You can find out the answer to those questions by reading a bible. God's primary method of communicating with us is through His word.

And as a bonus you don't have any "fanatics" or "collection trays" to deal with, you just sit and read.

Is it just me or is this a tad off topic?

Even though I get the impression that church/christian bashing was the real motivation I doubt Kronie would like to admit it

Originally Posted by s1lv3r

Even though I get the impression that church/christian bashing was the real motivation I doubt Kronie would like to admit it

Don`t confuse attacking those who deliver the message with attacking the Church itself. None of us here have the right to attack anyone elses belief, but I think it is justified to attack those in high places within the Church as they spew so much cr*p and then try to justify it under the banner of their religion.

As a counterpoint, here's an article I read on BBC Online about a cardinal who does seem to realise that we aren`t living in the dark ages any more,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3394097.stm

and for talking sense, how long is it going to be before he gets hauled up before his superiors for a ticking off.

Originally Posted by Russ D

Yes, we ALL obey EVERYTHING they say like mindless robots don't we.....

To be fair, Kronas didn`t actually say that *all* Christians fall under this category. Granted his comment was a little vague, but it could be interpreted as a comment about only those whose faith is blind.

[ZrByte]

Well since there are a few minor religious threads going on at the moment I figured I will try and start a bigger one, Its been a while since we last had a big religious debate (Unless I missed it ).

Basicly the question is in two parts, the first towards the theists, and the second towards the athiests.

Theists: If it where proven today that god didnt exist with no room for interputation, say for example a missing page was found from the beggining of the bible stating that all characters and places are entireley ficticious etc (Just like in many books and films now, stole this idea from Red Dwarf ) or even something more solid wich proved he doesnt exist and never has.
Would you still believe? If it where proven 100% that he couldnt possibly exist would you still hold onto your belief just incase?
Im not talking the same type of proof we athiests think we have today either, im talking about concrete evidence (Cant actually think of anything that would prove this mind you but its theoretical anyway so that doesnt matter )

Would you simply stop believing? Would you drop it without a second thought?
I know this wouldnt make a hell of a lot of difference to peoples lives anyway but still, would you have trouble letting go??

Athiests: If it where proven today that God existed, say if we found his Diary of creation along with a Video tape about how he done it and he gave it to us personally, and again if there was no room for interputation that he existed would you still contest this? would you claim the Evidence was fake even if it where proven not to be? would there ever be enough eveidence to convince you otherwise?
If you did start to believe would this change your life considderably? or would you barley notice?


My own response: As an athiest my current beliefs are based on what I can observe in the real world, I see evidence of evolution in every living creature around me, be it unatural like different breeds of Dog or be it natural such as ourselves.
When evidence is brought to light that proves my entire view is wrong or if even part of my view is wrong I adjust accordingly.
This even applies to religion. At this time I so no evidence to support the existance of God, I dont deny it is possible I just see no evidence to prove otherwise so I choose not to believe, it is a possibility Just not a likeley one, IMO god has as much chance of existing as my friend cuddles the invisible Unicorn but that doesnt mean he cant exist.
If it where proven without a shadow of a doubt that he existed I would believe, I dont know how much of what I currently hold true I would have to reject to do this but I would see no problem with it.
I cant honestly see it making a difference at all with my current lifestyle so I really see no problem with the change, though I know some people who would literally be crushed by a change to thier beliefs such as this. Dont like to apply this to a stereotype but Most theists I know would have far more trouble accepting the change than any athiest I have ever met.

So please discuss

please???

Ah Go on....... go on, go on, go on, go on