Merged-Shipman found dead. - Page 2

Nor · 13-01-2004, 14:29

Can't see how you can say he's such a nice fella.

paulyoung666 · 13-01-2004, 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nor

Can't see how you can say he's such a nice fella.

because of her experiences of working for him i would presume

Nor · 13-01-2004, 14:34

Quite, but surely when you find out the nice person you knew is the biggest mass murderer in British history you perhaps realise he wasn't the nice person you thought. Being polite and friendly while murdering the elderly is hardly a reason for people to actually believe he's a nice person.

SOSAGES · 13-01-2004, 14:36

i cant say im upset one less nutter to pay out for every month.

Marge · 13-01-2004, 14:37

I can only speak from the Dr S that I knew who approved a nice big pay rise for me !! Seriously though he was GP that people wanted to go to and there was a waiting list to join his practice. I was in his surgery on one of the days when he "killed" someone and was chatting to him after the surgery had finished waiting for the police to arrive. He was calm, normal, the Dr S that I knew and had come to admire. I was interviewed by the police and had to give a statement but didn't have to give evidence thank god. Still don't know what to make of it all.

Having just seen the TV I had to giggle cos they moved out of that surgery yesterday and are now in a big new shiny surgery at the top of the road so the media can stay there all day but ain't going to see anyone

Ramrod · 13-01-2004, 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Debsy42

Well sorry but I feel really sad about this news. I used to work for Dr S as well as being a patient and from the day I found out to today I still can't believe he did it. He was such a nice fella and great to work for.

Saying that was courageous of you. Well done.

Nor · 13-01-2004, 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Debsy42

I can only speak from the Dr S that I knew who approved a nice big pay rise for me !! Seriously though he was GP that people wanted to go to and there was a waiting list to join his practice. I was in his surgery on one of the days when he "killed" someone and was chatting to him after the surgery had finished waiting for the police to arrive. He was calm, normal, the Dr S that I knew and had come to admire. I was interviewed by the police and had to give a statement but didn't have to give evidence thank god. Still don't know what to make of it all.

Having just seen the TV I had to giggle cos they moved out of that surgery yesterday and are now in a big new shiny surgery at the top of the road so the media can stay there all day but ain't going to see anyone

I really don't know what to say, I'm gobsmacked by what you are writing. I find it discusting really that you can sit there and type that he was a really nice person and after he killed someone he was calm and normal and you have admiration for him, admiration that doesn't seem to have gone away since you found out he was a mass murderer.

Can't you see being friendly and normal and a seemingly nice person, while he murdered people makes him even worse ? He was cold and calculating and while he chatted to you nice and calmly he'd just murdered someone. You've even put "killed" in quotes as if you don't believe he actually did it ?

You sound to me like someone who was completely taken in by the presentable facade of a murderer and to this day it seems you are still taken in by it. Its cheap shot but he can't be all that bad if he gave you a big pay rise eh ? Perhaps he liked having gullable supporters around him while he murdered 200 people.

paulyoung666 · 13-01-2004, 14:55

re read debsy's posts , i have and can see what she is saying

Xaccers · 13-01-2004, 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nor

I really don't know what to say, I'm gobsmacked by what you are writing. I find it discusting really that you can sit there and type that he was a really nice person and after he killed someone he was calm and normal and you have admiration for him, admiration that doesn't seem to have gone away since you found out he was a mass murderer.

Can't you see being friendly and normal and a seemingly nice person, while he murdered people makes him even worse ? He was cold and calculating and while he chatted to you nice and calmly he'd just murdered someone. You've even put "killed" in quotes as if you don't believe he actually did it ?

You sound to me like someone who was completely taken in by the presentable facade of a murderer and to this day it seems you are still taken in by it. Its cheap shot but he can't be all that bad if he gave you a big pay rise eh ? Perhaps he liked having gullable supporters around him while he murdered 200 people.

Woah woah woah nor!

Debs is saying that he seemed like a nice guy, who she admired.
Lost of people seem to be nice but turn out not to.
How the hell can you attack debs for it????
She's not saying he didn't do it, she's saying that the Dr S she knew didn't seem the sort who could, but there's no way she could have known.

Back off or appologise to debs.

Marge · 13-01-2004, 14:56

Nor, as I said in post 15, I'm not saying that he didn't do it just that I find it hard to believe. The pay rise etc happened before all this came to light and what I'm saying is that he was completely normal at the time when I look back to events. There are other things that happened that make me think how could someone be so calm at the time. I haven't be taken in by Dr S, I am talking about my impression of the person I knew at that time. I feel very sorry for his family as they have to live with his noteriety as they have done nothing wrong and also the victims families as at the end of the day the have lost a loved one.

Nor · 13-01-2004, 15:13

Maybe I've completely misread, if so I'll apologise. Just so I can understand maybe you could answer a couple of questions.

Do you believe that he murdered all those people.

Do you think he is a nice fella despite him being a murderer.

Stuart · 13-01-2004, 15:14

Debsy, I tried to rep you but can't. Need to spread it around more..

What you said was very brave.

Nor: Dr Shipman persuaded all his family, friends, colleagues and patients he was a nice man for years while he was killing. I don't believe that everyone in those groups was that gullible (logic dictates that this is unlikely to be the case). This would suggest to me either that he was actually a very good liar, or he suffered from Multiple Personalities, and that one of his personalities did the murdering with the other(s) totally unaware. However, if the Multiple Personalities theory were true, he would not have stood trial. So, he is a good liar.

Marge · 13-01-2004, 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nor

Maybe I've completely misread, if so I'll apologise. Just so I can understand maybe you could answer a couple of questions.

Do you believe that he murdered all those people.

Do you think he is a nice fella despite him being a murderer.

To question 1 - yes

To question 2 - he was a nice fella

It's difficult because I can only go off the person I knew at the time, we used to go for nights out etc with the surgery and he was funny, kind and allround nice person. I'm sure people don't look at their boss and suspect he may be a mass murderer. I had gone in his surgery in the August for a blood test result, he said he had something to tell me and explained that he was being investigated for murder. I nearly fell off my chair in shock. After he had been arrested the wall of the surgery was covered in cards from patients who supported him. I just find it hard to reconcile this mass murderer is the same person as Dr S.

13-01-2004, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nor

Maybe I've completely misread, if so I'll apologise. Just so I can understand maybe you could answer a couple of questions.

Do you believe that he murdered all those people.

Do you think he is a nice fella despite him being a murderer.

I think it perfectly possible to make a differentiation in this case. The murders that he committed were terrible acts, but that does not necessarily mean that in the rest of his interactions with people he was a perfectly nice guy. I was listening to a radio interview with the relative of one of his victims earlier who also happened to be one of his patients and they echoed these sentiments, that aside from the murders he was a good chap.

I do not condone these murders in anyway, but as scastle said, there may be deeper issues involved. I read that when he was rather young he had to watch his mother slowly die from a painful illness during which she suffered greatly. AFAIK (and if I`m wrong this whole hypothesis is invalid) his victims were all elderly people. Perhaps, as a result of the early trauma, he was extremely misguided and believed he was helping these people by giving them a relatively painless death.

I know that sounds very twisted, but it is possible that a traumatic experience in his youth caused him to commit acts that anyone else can see as being extremely wrong, while in his mind they were honorable acts. That would be in accordance with the comments that I have heard now from multiple people that he was, in general, a thoroughly decent chap.

This argument in no way excuses his acts, and regardless of his intentions, justice must be served. But if multiple people can say good things about him, I can`t see that all these people are somehow missing the point.

Nor · 13-01-2004, 15:34

This is the bit I can't get. I can totally understand you saying, you always thought he was a nice fella up until he was found guilty of murder, cos he was always friendly, nice, polite, caring etc. That he fooled you just like he fooled everyone else. But how can you say he's still a nice fella even after knowing he murdered over 200 people.