Are 'warez' really theft?

Originally Posted by SOSAGES

anyway i have a buddy who has 135 DVD-R's of divx movies and about 100 of tv episdoes (dvd rips) he also has about 400 purchased DVDs and box sets of tv shows the ones he downloads

The whole issue of TV shows I find a tricky one. As far as I see it, there is no difference between me taping a show off the television and downloading a copy of it from the internet. In both instances the show has been broadcast and I have made a personal copy of it, and in both instances the company involved would not be receiving any money from me for actually "buying" a copy.

I do not own a VCR. Imagine there is an episode of a TV show I watch, that for some reason I cannot be in for. If I had a VCR I could record it, so I don`t see what the problem is in downloading it from the internet, either way the end result is the same.

Originally Posted by SOSAGES

anyway i have a buddy who has 135 DVD-R's of divx movies and about 100 of tv episdoes (dvd rips) he also has about 400 purchased DVDs and box sets of tv shows the ones he downloads he thinks are "okay" and can live without and he wouldnt buy them anyway ..granted thats no excuse as he has stole the copyright but i kinda agree if he wanted to d/l friday the 13th 1-10 im easy with that hes never gonna buy em (i doubt he will watch em) but somthing to add to his collection the company lost a bit of money but he wouldnt of paid for em anyway so no biggie he thinks

Oi whats wrong with Friday the 13th 1-10, I have actually just purchased them all on DVD recently. At an average price of £6.49 from play.com I couldnt resist. Also I have pre-ordered Freddy V Jason even though I saw it at the cinema.

Now yeah Ok the TV issue is a very dodgy area and I personally wouldnt be surprised if most people would think downloading a TV episode was in fact perfectly acceptable.

DVD prices are very cheap if you order online. So I think you can discount the DVD prices, the fact remains whilst people can get it for free they will not buy it. I know it costs them the price of the BB connection, the price of a CD-r or DVD-R, perhaps even the price of the computer if you really wanna split hairs, but that does not give them entitlement to download movies because the DVD's cost too much.

I buy a lot of DVD's from Blockbuster and yes I am aware that when I purchase an ex rental version of a movie then myself and Blockbuster are breaking the law. But hey the DVDS are cheaper then play.com and I dont mind that they are second hand.

ON saturday I bought Halo for the xbox, I begrudged payin £17.99 for it second hand, but it was a game I wanted and I'd rather pay £17.99 then £34.99 which it seems this game still retails for, and I believe someone should have a lot of explaining to do about the fact this game still retails at top whack when its what nearly 2 years old???

[SOSAGES]

about tv episodes..

well if you was d/ling Season 3 of 24
1. its not shown in this country so sky 1 paying X amount to buy the show would be losing a viewer
2. No adverts are shown on a Downloaded TV show rip.


But i do agree with ya i kinda wnat TV to work for me, i watch very few shows

angel sg1 enterprise alias sort of thing (geek) and these shows take a long time to get to the UK and when they do get here i have be in at a certain time to watch these ..

now id rather d/l it and watch when I want..not when someone wnats me to watch it..i would pay for that as well

quality wise its usually poorer than watching on a TV but now we have HDTV or PDTV the rips are close to DVD quality and at about 350 meg you cant go wrong ..
check out this link to a website that ONLy releases TV shows for d/l the forum had a good discussion the other week:

http://forum.bucktv.net/viewtopic.php?t=1584



oh and timewarrior you have bad taste in films :P

Originally Posted by SOSAGES

about tv episodes..

well if you was d/ling Season 3 of 24
1. its not shown in this country so sky 1 paying X amount to buy the show would be losing a viewer
2. No adverts are shown on a Downloaded TV show rip.

In this example, simply because I can theoretically download the episode, it isn`t going to stop me subscribing to Sky 1 due to all the other shows I could watch, so Sky are still getting my subscription money, so no loss there. Additionally, as I`m a paid up subscriber, that will be factored into the viewing figures when charging for advertising rates regardless of whether I`m sitting in front of the box or not, so again, no money lost there.

[Fawkes]

Originally Posted by Bifta

I don't think that was the original question at all Besides, how many people on here are able to code something to exactly the same spec. as something they'd buy and or download using P2P? Few if none by my reckoning, it's a bit of an irrelevant argument (sorry)

The point I'm trying to make is that when you download a program, game, mp3 or movies you do not deprive the owner of that entity.

The software, film and music industry need to take a more creative approach to copyright and start supplying an obviously high demand.

Take the example of me and my brother. He saw about 5 or 6 movies at the cinema last year and downloaded none. I saw about 50 and download lots.

I go to the cinema to see the latest releases on the big screen, I buy DVDs of films I enjoyed so I have a permanent high quality copy, I subscribe to film channels so I have a large selection of film I haven't seen or what to see again. But I cross the line when I download a film I've missed or doesn't interested me enough to buy the DVD!
Last week I was flicking through the film channels and saw the film Full Metal Jacket was about to start. I haven't seen it and i was thinking about watching it but i was tried and decided to go to bed. If I download that film now I'm a criminal, but if I'd popped a tape in the video I'm not! (tapping a film from the TV is legal for time shift purposes).

There are about 4 million people on KaZaA at any one time and about 60 million people use the service worldwide. If KaZaA was an industry endorsed subscription service charging £10 a month of unlimited downloads it would generate £7.2 Billion ($13 Billion) a year. Which is more that the top 10 highest grossing films of all time put together. source

The "industry" and many people like yourself also equate every download with a lost sale, which is untrue. I have downloaded many items which i wouldn't have bought anyway and many items which I have subsequenly bought which i way or may not have bought had i not downloaded them first.

I will continue to go to you cinema, I will continue to buy DVD's and I will continue to download movies whether its legal or not but i would prefer a legal means it's just the "industry" doesn't currently provide it.

I'll leave you with this from Jack Valenti president and CEO of the Motion Picture Association of America:

The growing and dangerous intrusion of this new technology," Jack Valenti said, threatens an entire industry's "economic vitality and future security." Mr. Valenti, the president of the Motion Picture Association of America, was testifying before the House Judiciary Committee, and he was ready for a rhetorical rumble. The new technology, he said, "is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston Strangler is to the woman alone."

This is not about the internet or file sharing, it was in 1982, and he was talking about videocassette recorders. If Jack Valenti had his way back then (he almost did as the Sony BetaMax case went all the way to the Supreme Court) we wouldn't have VCRs today, Blockbuster wouldn't exist and 50% of Hollywoods income wouldn't exist.

Taken from here.

[SOSAGES]

i have often d/led a film that i would of never been to the cinema to watch and said oooohh that was good went to play.com ordered the US DVD and job done..

illigal yep but company still made a bit of money now if it sucked i would of felt angry that id paid to watch it and would of never paid for it on dvd..

but still no excuse..