Minister admits: we got it wrong on immigration

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Could you provide an example, please, Rammy, of people arguing passionately in favour of Labour's immigration policy? If you mean disagreeing with the bunch of bullcrip that the Mail and the Express print on this issue, you may be confusing disliking xenophobia and incitement to hatred with passionately supporting Labour policy.

btw, if you think I'm a left-winger, how do you explain my service in the RAF, my 29 years membership of the Tory Party, the fact that I have attended over a dozen Tory Party conferences, helped out at General Elections and by-elections, stood for local council, had lunch with MT three times, been an Area and National Officer of the Conservatives, read the Times, the Telegraph, and the Economist - or perhaps things aren't always cut and dried, and some people have a range of views on things.

you might be a 5th columnist

had lunch with MT respect

Originally Posted by foreverwar

Could you provide an example, please, Rammy, of people arguing passionately in favour of Labour's immigration policy? If you mean disagreeing with the bunch of bullcrip that the Mail and the Express print on this issue, you may be confusing disliking xenophobia and incitement to hatred with passionately supporting Labour policy.

Yes this is pretty much it. Like when there is a horrible murder and they accuse those of us against the death penalty of effectively being pro-murder or whatever. It is underhanded mis-presentation of our views (as a left winger).

I don't think many people, if anyone, said uncontrolled immigration is a good thing. We did say that Immigration is important and that we do benefit from it. The NHS being an example. Labour electioneering not withstanding it, that point has not diminished.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by punky

andyl was before your time, Foreverwar.

*shiver*

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

Yes this is pretty much it. Like when there is a horrible murder and they accuse those of us against the death penalty of effectively being pro-murder or whatever. It is underhanded mis-presentation of our views (as a left winger).

I don't think many people, if anyone, said uncontrolled immigration is a good thing. We did say that Immigration is important and that we do benefit from it. The NHS being an example. Labour electioneering not withstanding it, that point has not diminished.

Immigration per se isn't the problem - it's the 'uncontrolled' bit that's the problem for most people. We don't need uncontrolled immigration to have an effective NHS or enjoy the benefits of highly qualified personnel from around the world after all. Of course you wouldn't guess that from New Labour's approach to the issue which involved few if any meaningful controls until very recently. If they didn't think it was a good idea or and/or suited their agenda why didn't they impose stricter limits for non EU immigration?

Seconds thoughts. Not going to engage.

[papa smurf]

oh heck death penalty and muslims
im of to bed

[deadite66]

Originally Posted by Damien

We did say that Immigration is important and that we do benefit from it. The NHS being an example.

i've never understood that argument, paying nurses so little we have to employ cheap foreign workers isn't something to be proud about.

Funny how in a world of variety and possibility some of us insist in talking in terms of absolutes.

Or in other worlds in a world of vibrant colour some of us stick only to black and white and can't even shade and tint those two to include differing greys.

It's not an either world,it's not an other world.

Originally Posted by deadite66

i've never understood that argument, paying nurses so little we have to employ cheap foreign workers isn't something to be proud about.

Ah. I know what's happened here. You have misunderstood the argument. Basically the shortage of nurses is because a lot of people don't train to be nurses. It is skilled work and requires training. They get paid more than minuma wage as well so it's not 'cheap foreign workers' they are educated workers.

How about doctors? They do get paid a lot and look how many immigrant doctors there are.

[c1rcle]

Still think the BNP are wrong?

Originally Posted by c1rcle

Still think the BNP are wrong?

Yes.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

Yes.

Me too - controlled immigration which truly benefits the people of this country does NOT require the likes of the BNP to be supported or, worse still, in power.

[c1rcle]

Even though exactly what they've been saying all along is now being proven true? you really have all been brainwashed.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by c1rcle

Even though exactly what they've been saying all along is now being proven true? you really have all been brainwashed.

Not at all my friend. I've been around long enough to know that aspects of what they've been saying have been proved partially true and the BNP aren't the only ones who've been making that point. There's also no doubt that the main parties (especially our current 'government') have fudged this issue for years, let this nation down and thereby created the conditions in which the BNP can garner support, much of it misguided.

However, whilst I fully understand and share some of the grave concerns of those who oppose uncontrolled immigration, the vast bulk of what the BNP stands for and their abject lack of any other real policy ought to make them unelectable by any reasonable person.

As Osem says there is a difference between legitimate concerns over Immigration and the BNP's view that all Immigration is bad as well as ethnic minorities being asked to vacate the country so that Britain can be 99% white.

The legitimate concerns, expressed by many on this forum, are valid and are to do with problems of mass migration into small areas which could adversely affect a town. Those of us who sometimes disagree with these views, like me, would question how often this truly happens and how much is media spin. As well as trying to emphasise that well-managed immigration is a good thing. Pointing to the amount of Doctors and Social Workers who are Immigrants, as well as the successes we have had in the past.

The BNP's "concerns" are not valid. They are against all Immigration fundamentally because they believe that minorities are a danger to Britain, and to the ethnic make-up of Britain. If you look at BNP policy they don't seem to mind white immigration or members. As long as they descend from the correct racial group they don't care. They would cause critical under-staffing in the NHS and social work. They would basically revoke 'Britishness' to those who are Asian/Black no matter how long they or their family have lived here.

It is rather simple. The BNP are racists using Immigration as a ploy to win votes.