Should Corporal Punishment Be Brought Back ?

Originally Posted by frogstamper

I'm sorry you have trouble following a thread Gary, corporal punishment is the cane in school as much as smacking a child is, maybe you'd be better off if you could expand your mind a little.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment

I'm so sorry to argue with someone I respect but I have to take issue with you.Smacking is in no way akin to using a cane on a child.I have smacked my children on very few occasions but I've never used cane on either of them.I never would on any child.

More troubling though is what we have arrived at under the no corporal punishment regime though is no force or touching allowed which makes it very difficult to deal with children who are completely out of control.Restraint is a very dodgy issue despite the government attempting to clarify the situation by saying reasonable restraint may be used.What's reasonable restraint?

Originally Posted by frogstamper

Maybe if you did you'd be a little less eager to beat them

Ahhhh, nothing like a bit of hypebole to muddy the waters eh ? There is a distinct difference between "beating" a child, and applying a smack across the arse, or the back of the thighs as punishment for disobedience. Kids, these days still need to learn right from wrong, and that being caught breaking the rules can and must have consequences. Wether the punishment is being grounded, loss of privlages (watching tv, playing on their games console/computer), or the previously mentioned slap, are the consequences for their actions....

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

I'm so sorry to argue with someone I respect but I have to take issue with you.Smacking is in no way akin to using a cane on a child.I have smacked my children on very few occasions but I've never used cane on either of them.I never would on any child.

Agreed. It doesn't even have to be a hard smack. A light tap often works.

In fact, I read somewhere that it's actually the noise that works rather than the pain. Not too sure about that though.

My own opinion? I do differentiate between smacking and other more severe forms of punishment. I don't think the ODD light smack is a bad idea. If becomes something else (either frequently smacking, harder smacking or another form of beating) then there is an issue that needs to be addressed.

Smacking should not, however, be the only way you interact with a child/ You should not only punish or reward that child. A good upbringing needs to be a combination of both rewards for doing right and punishment for doing wrong.

You could argue that a lot of people on council estates use smacking and their kids still regularly do terrible things. This is true. However, I'll lay odds that in a lot of cases, the only interaction the parent (s) have with the children is to punish them.

[rogerdraig]

Originally Posted by Bifta

Here's a few reasons why hitting children is wrong (stolen from another site I hasten to add).

1. Hitting children teaches them to become hitters themselves. Extensive research data is now available to support a direct correlation between corporal punishment in childhood and aggressive or violent behavior in the teenage and adult years. Virtually all of the most dangerous criminals were regularly threatened and punished in childhood. It is nature's plan that children learn attitudes and behaviors through observation and imitation of their parents' actions, for good or ill. Thus it is the responsibility of parents to set an example of empathy and wisdom.

2. In many cases of so-called "bad behavior", the child is simply responding in the only way he can, given his age and experience, to neglect of basic needs. Among these needs are: proper sleep and nutrition, treatment of hidden allergy, fresh air, exercise, and sufficient freedom to explore the world around him. But his greatest need is for his parents' undivided attention. In these busy times, few children receive sufficient time and attention from their parents, who are often too distracted by their own problems and worries to treat their children with patience and empathy. It is surely wrong and unfair to punish a child for responding in a natural way to having important needs neglected. For this reason, punishment is not only ineffective in the long run, it is also clearly unjust.

3. Punishment distracts the child from learning how to resolve conflict in an effective and humane way. As the educator John Holt wrote, "When we make a child afraid, we stop learning dead in its tracks." A punished child becomes preoccupied with feelings of anger and fantasies of revenge, and is thus deprived of the opportunity to learn more effective methods of solving the problem at hand. Thus, a punished child learns little about how to handle or prevent similar situations in the future.

4. †œSpare the rod and spoil the childââ‚ƚ¬Ã‚ÂÂÂ�, though much quoted, is in fact a misinterpretation of Biblical teaching. While the †œrodâà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã‚ÂÂÂ� is mentioned many times in the Bible, it is only in the Book of Proverbs that this word is used in connection with parenting. The book of Proverbs is attributed to Solomon, an extremely cruel man whose harsh methods of discipline led his own son, Rehoboam, to become a tyrannical and oppressive dictator who only narrowly escaped being stoned to death for his cruelty. In the Bible there is no support for harsh discipline outside of Solomonââ‚à ‚¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s Proverbs. By contrast, the writings in the Gospels, the most important books in the Bible for Christians, contain the teachings of Jesus Christ, who urged mercy, forgiveness, humility, and non-violence. Jesus saw children as being close to God, and urged love, never punishment.3

5. Punishment interferes with the bond between parent and child, as it is not human nature to feel loving toward someone who hurts us. The true spirit of cooperation which every parent desires can arise only through a strong bond based on mutual feelings of love and respect. Punishment, even when it appears to work, can produce only superficially good behavior based on fear, which can only take place until the child is old enough to resist. In contrast, cooperation based on respect will last permanently, bringing many years of mutual happiness as the child and parent grow older.

6. Many parents never learned in their own childhood that there are positive ways of relating to children. When punishment does not accomplish the desired goals, and if the parent is unaware of alternative methods, punishment can escalate to more frequent and dangerous actions against the child.

7. Anger and frustration which cannot be safely expressed by a child become stored inside; angry teenagers do not fall from the sky. Anger that has been accumulating for many years can come as a shock to parents whose child now feels strong enough to express this rage. Punishment may appear to produce "good behavior" in the early years, but always at a high price, paid by parents and by society as a whole, as the child enters adolescence and early adulthood.

8. Spanking on the buttocks, an erogenous zone in childhood, can create in the child's mind an association between pain and sexual pleasure, and lead to difficulties in adulthood. "Spanking wanted" ads in alternative newspapers attest to the sad consequences of this confusion of pain and pleasure. If a child receives little parental attention except when being punished, this will further merge the concepts of pain and pleasure in the child's mind. A child in this situation will have little self-esteem, believing he deserves nothing better. For more on this topic, see "The Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children" (also in French).

Even relatively moderate spanking can be physically dangerous. Blows to the lower end of the spinal column send shock waves along the length of the spine, and may injure the child. The prevalence of lower back pain among adults in our society may well have its origins in childhood punishment. Some children have become paralyzed through nerve damage from spanking, and some have died after mild paddlings, due to undiagnosed medical complications.

9. Physical punishment gives the dangerous and unfair message that "might makes right", that it is permissible to hurt someone else, provided they are smaller and less powerful than you are. The child then concludes that it is permissible to mistreat younger or smaller children. When he becomes an adult, he can feel little compassion for those less fortunate than he is, and fears those who are more powerful. This will hinder the establishment of meaningful relationships so essential to an emotionally fulfilling life.

10. Because children learn through parental modeling, physical punishment gives the message that hitting is an appropriate way to express feelings and to solve problems. If a child does not observe a parent solving problems in a creative and humane way, it can be difficult for him to learn to do this himself. For this reason, unskilled parenting often continues into the next generation.

would love to see what real data ( if any can be found ) is behind any of that tosh

the idea that children cant be touched is what is behind the slow but insidious progress of bad behavior

that said i am not in favor of it being brought back to school not because i think it damages children but because it never had a decent base line and never can for when it is to be used

better would be to allow school to insist a parent comes and decides what punishment to use especially in up to 11years old if they are taught by then to respect teachers its likely that it wouldn't be needed in high school any way

also i love the often said "If you cant hit adults you cant hit children" the thing is adults can be hit Mr policeman can use a metal bar to hit you to force you to conform to an order if you refuse to comply quite legally

what is being suggested is nothing near that though i say again i dont think the school should be doing it the parents should

it would be interesting to see which branch of parenting worked best if the school was allowed to exclude the child if the parents method of stopping the behavior didn't work leaving the parent to find other schools to teach their child

[budwieser]

Most of that is pure and simple bolleaux.
As for this one.
" 3. Punishment distracts the child from learning how to resolve conflict in an effective and humane way. As the educator John Holt wrote, "When we make a child afraid, we stop learning dead in its tracks." A punished child becomes preoccupied with feelings of anger and fantasies of revenge, and is thus deprived of the opportunity to learn more effective methods of solving the problem at hand. Thus, a punished child learns little about how to handle or prevent similar situations "
What a complete load of crap.I did some wrong things at school and was punished appropriately, i never did those things again for fear of what would happen to me.
Thats why todays society is so messed up because there is NO deterrant.
If a child is chastised for doing wrong they will learn not to do it again, whether it be a smack or the cane/slipper.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by frogstamper

I'm sorry you have trouble following a thread Gary, corporal punishment is the cane in school as much as smacking a child is, maybe you'd be better off if you could expand your mind a little.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment

I say again. this is what we were discussing.
smacking a child and the cane are different things. you may think they are both as bad as each other, but then you have beating to add to it.

so you have caning a child. smacking a child and beating a child.
smacking is the lesser of the three.

some people think smacking is evil. some people think it's something that is needed in certain circumstances. and banning it all completely is a bad idea for the future of mankind.