1GB Cap Letter!!!!

[MovedGoalPosts]

Originally Posted by Kitty

Time for organised discussions and customer meets with mangers at the regions... any volunters to go in threes to each region and talk to the manager? In threes so they can't twist what is said afterwards safty in numbers..

Been there and done it with anticap last year - and that was with the directors responsible for the internet services themselves. Unfortunately much of what was said had to be "off the record" and thus it would be incorrect of me to say too much. Let's just say that if anything, the 1GB policy of today is conservative compared to ntl's view of the future. It was quite clear that the directors support the cap concept.

Regrettably ntl's thoughts on this issue appear to be closed. Ntl must be aware of the strength of feeling, after all they would be downright foolish not to be aware of this and many other sites.

The only real way that ntl will see that restrictions in use are inappropriate is when they find customers are no longer signing up or are leaving of other providers. Thus commercially the cap policy is costing them money. At present, ntl see that the few heavy users are causing them bigger losses, than the potential loss of that sector of business.

[Sociable]

Basically they just don't want to admit that the business model they based projections on was flawed.

As I understand it the original calculations were based on average use of only 100mb per user, no wonder this could not cope with new uses like gaming and plus.

NTL have a choice to make. Come clean and admit they need our help to come up with a revised system for ensuring the long term integrity of the service close to the basis on which most if not all of its product was sold or inevitably fail as a company.

Continuing to fudge the issue and avoid admitting they got their sums wrong is no longer an option.

[Womble]

Has anyone actualy been dis'ed for over use?. Hardly anyone has even got a letter!. This whole cap thing has been blown out of proportion. It is there to stop the really heavy users. This thread was started by someone claiming to download 10gig a day! Lets be serious, its bit OTT. To down load 10gig a day is taking the p1ss. The average user won't get even near that. I download martial arts related films, competitions and other mpegs, and yeah sometimes I break the 1gig barrier (2.85g is the mostin one day). That may go on for 2-3 days then back down to whatever Quake, surfing and mail uses up.I haven't got a letter, so I can only pressume that the people that have are really pushing the limits. It is also, more than likely to be pirated films or software which ntl can't be seen to condone.

[dimr21]

I got that letter, I am not averaging 10GB, DUMeter has actually counted 1.3 GB in the last 24 hours and on top of that I was checking the UBR usage with that DocsDiag tool and only a third of the capacity was reached at peak and off peak times. As stated before 1GB is way too low, the cap should be tiered providing at least 3 GB a day for the faster connections. Peak and off-peak usage should also be considered, leaving the heavy downloaders to do their downloads at off-peak hours. Pay as you go for heavy downloaders is not a solution since there are competitors out there who don't have the same cap policy.

[Acathla]

[QUOTE=Womble]This thread was started by someone claiming to download 10gig a day![QUOTE]

I think you'll find I started this thread and nowhere did I ever quote figures like 10gig a day.

[Sociable]

If that were true womble then why have the 1 gig as the limit that makes no sense?

If they want to stop the 24/7 users only the limit would have been set way above 1 gig. It is clear from the fact they did not that at some point in time they intend enforcing it at the level stated.

The only reason I can see for the delay of a year before any enforcement is that a larger number of users have now put themselves under the revised wording in the AUP either by being new customers or having changed tiers.

NTL themselves know they are on shakey ground legally as regards those who set up their contract prior to the change and have not subsequently changed levels.

[IanUK]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherN00b

2:1 contention?!?! Check the price of a 512k leased line, then tell me 5GB/day for 1Mbit service is a must.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you are saying, I never mentioned contention, nor was I discussing it - I merely pointed out what I thought was a perfectly legitimate use of bandwidth that would be curtailed by the cap in the future.

I feel that 5 gig is a perfectly acceptable limit for a 1mb line, as I thought I clearly explained (but you cut the rest of that paragraph out of your quote)

Thats all I was saying, I'm an end user, not a technician, that just wants to use his connection 'reasonably'.

None of this affects me anyway (yet!) but I can see problems coming..
Just my thoughts.

[Blake]

Problems will arise too, I'm sure of it.

I feel sorry for the familys, who's kids are off school.. being sterotyped as "heavy users", when all the information they get from the net.. is legitimate.

Even the gamers could crank up some usage I guess, (including updates, demos, patches, maps, mods etc) they too are being penalized (in a way).



1gig is way to low. 5gig is still low, but more realistic.

[Womble]

[QUOTE=Acathla I think you'll find I started this thread and nowhere did I ever quote figures like 10gig a day.[/QUOTE]

Yeah sorry I stand corrected, didn't read from start of the tread...doh

But I still thing that 1gig a day is more than plenty for the average home user. It would be interesting to see, if everyone complaining about the cap stated what there downloads consisted of, and are they from legal sources. As for gaming etc, you could play for 24hrs and get nowhere near 1gig transfer, yes some of the mods are large but you only download them every now and then

[Charlie_Bubble]

The trouble is that NTL are victims of their own marketing success. They cut the price of 1Meg and so more people went onto it. They upped the bandwidth of the 512k package to 600k. They signed the deal with AOL to provide cable for them. Their network canââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t cope, or at least certain parts of it canââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t cope.

The solution to the problem is clear. No more 1Meg cable. Limit everyone to 512k or 150k packages, or raise the prices charged for the packages. Then hopefully NTLs network would be able to cope again. The total amount of data that could be downloaded would be almost halved or they get more money in to help with upgrading. The problem with this of course is NTL will lose money, about £10 for the x thousand of people they downgrade to 512k from 1Meg (If they all chose to stay). Then they risk looking like a second rate broadband provider when compared with Telewest offering 2meg cable and ADSL companies offering 2Meg ADSL for almost the price of NTLs 1Meg service. This is the crux of the matter. To stop people downloading so much you have to either physically limit them by cutting bandwidth or charging more to discourage it. NTL won't do this though. NTL want as much of people's money as they can. Their problem is that if you cut peopleââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s bandwidth and they have a choice to go with ADSL, they probably will and you lose money. If they raise prices on premium packages, they stop being competitive when compared to most other ISPs. Itââ‚ ¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s already looking a little too much when you can get cheaper 1Meg ADSL with prices likely to fall a wee bit further as BT tries to encourage more people to take the leap.

So, instead of the sensible option NTL decide a blanket 1gig limit. No matter how much you pay for your connection, at the end of the day you are getting the same product. You might not even reach the limit on 150k, but in real terms you have the same capacity for data download as someone paying twice the money.

People compare this to communism. Thatââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s rubbish. If it truly were like communism, everyone would pay the 150k price and get the 150k service, or the 512k price, or the 1Meg price and get the relevant service. Itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s more like Blairism! If you can afford to pay for 1Meg, you get the same old 150k service as someone paying 150k prices.

[Charlie_Bubble]

Originally Posted by Womble

But I still thing that 1gig a day is more than plenty for the average home user. It would be interesting to see, if everyone complaining about the cap stated what there downloads consisted of, and are they from legal sources. As for gaming etc, you could play for 24hrs and get nowhere near 1gig transfer, yes some of the mods are large but you only download them every now and then

Why would that bring anything to the discussion? Are you an employee of FACT or someone from the BPI? What difference does the nature of the downloads matter. It's being downloaded, that's the issue. What is an 'average user'? People pay for a faster connection, because they have a lot of data, be it legal or illegal, that they want downloaded. They want it and they want it quickly. The fact they will pay more for this means they are not average users if you compare them with someone doing occasional browsing on 150k!

[Chrysalis]

ntl are taking the wrong attitude here, a good isp oversell's their bandwidth but they do it right so performance isnt affected, overselling means allowing customers to have performance of a low contention eg. 5:1 or even 2:1 based on the customers who dont use much.

this means ntl shouldnt set traffic limits for everyone based on high contention, because we all know there are a lot of users out there who dont use much traffic to offset this, the idea of setting the limit is just to stop the 10 gig a day people, so even setting a limit of 5 gig a day you will halve their usage (if enforced) and still keep a respectable limit for the rest of us.

Nildram have a limit of 150 gig a month (allows 24/7 downloading on 512kbit), its there simply to stop people downloading 24/7 on the faster products but allows them to download a decent amount, which is good. I just feel ntl have gone overkill with their 30 gig a month limit, and also really they should provide tools where you can check your usage online let customers get used to it and then and only then have a limit in place.

[MovedGoalPosts]

Originally Posted by Sociable

The only reason I can see for the delay of a year before any enforcement is that a larger number of users have now put themselves under the revised wording in the AUP either by being new customers or having changed tiers.

NTL themselves know they are on shakey ground legally as regards those who set up their contract prior to the change and have not subsequently changed levels.

The ntl contract terms for a service is usually a minimum 12 months. So yes at the time the cap was introduced to the AUP many customers could probably have successfully argued ntl could not have applied it. Now all customers will have been on for 12 months or more and so ntl would be able to vary the contract, with due notice of a month, and remain in compliance with the contract provision. However I doubt the recent letter really constitutes a clear warning that the AUP term has changed if you were a very long standing user and now applies to the customer.

OK I know all the old stuff of whether the AUP is really applicable as contract, or just guidance, and whether the cap is a significant change that affects the contract. Never did get any lawyers to stick their necks on the block and give an opinion on that.

[Acathla]

Originally Posted by Womble

Yeah sorry I stand corrected, didn't read from start of the tread...doh

No problems

Originally Posted by Womble

But I still thing that 1gig a day is more than plenty for the average home user. It would be interesting to see, if everyone complaining about the cap stated what there downloads consisted of, and are they from legal sources. As for gaming etc, you could play for 24hrs and get nowhere near 1gig transfer, yes some of the mods are large but you only download them every now and then

I'll answer this.
1gig a day may be ok for the average home user but I amn't an average home user. Computers (and the Internet) are a large part of my life and I use it for work as well as personal gain. How many average home users actually pay for the 1meg connection? Surely its designed for above average users?

As for what I download, I subscribe to many pay music and video sites and enjoy downloading new songs/films to try. These sites are legal and all above board. There are many things I will download, try and delete so am not storing all this data that is being downloaded.
I could probably download about 150 music tracks for 1gig. If I download a film, most are about 800/900 meg so im pretty much at the gig cap already.

Add this to online radio and the other downloads I get (eg Unreal Tourney demo yesterday @ over 200meg then its esay to see that going over 1gig a day i easy.

I keep repeating I dont excessively go over and download nearly ALL my stuff over night so I dont impact other users but I dont think NTL care.
And, if they are currently only targeting users in my area, what gives them the right? Either target us all and not decide to pick on South Manchester because you cant be bothered investing in the network here. I dont think I've ever seen on the status page of upgardes around here.

Anyway, I would love NTL to speak with us instead of throwing down these demands that we stop accessing the services we pay for.

[Womble]

Originally Posted by Charlie_Bubble

Why would that bring anything to the discussion? Are you an employee of FACT or someone from the BPI? What difference does the nature of the downloads matter. It's being downloaded, that's the issue. What is an 'average user'? People pay for a faster connection, because they have a lot of data, be it legal or illegal, that they want downloaded. They want it and they want it quickly. The fact they will pay more for this means they are not average users if you compare them with someone doing occasional browsing on 150k!

Let me straighten a few things up
1 I am not from FACT or the BPI, but I can see where they are coming from
2 The average user's are the majority, there ain't that many that exceed the limit, but the few that do seem to make the most noise.
3 The content does make a differance, everyone knows, people downloading that amount of data are downloading pirated software and films. NTL can not be seen to condone it.
1 gig a day is enough to run a small business