*MERGED* Militant Cyclists & Joggers

[Pierre]

With the ever increasing compensation culture that this country has, personal 3rd part insurance may well become a neccesity. I play golf, and although I don't have insurance, I know many players that do. In case they hit someone with a golf ball !!!

The worlds gone mad

[Enterian]

Originally Posted by basa

And I would produce mine (licence that is !). I've driven a car for 39 years now, although I cycle to work and back daily (yes, whatever the weather !)

And I would produce my 16 year-old diving licence, Advanced Driving Test pass certificate, and Membership Card of the Institute of Advanced Motorists!

Originally Posted by peachey

I like to cycle myself in the summer

but I can't stant those militant ones you see in the traffic
dayglo stipes everywhere - helmet - po-faced - you know the sort

You mean the ones who have the good sense to realise that most motorists don't pay enough attention, that many motorists think they have right of way because they have to pay "Road Tax" (see elsewhere) to "use the road" (they don't) and that want every possible advantage to keep themselves alive because in an argument between 100KG of cycle and rider and 1 Tonne of car, *they* are going to come off the worst?

saw one this morning whacking the side of a car for no apparent reason

Interesting expression "no *apparent* reason".

Whilst I don't support that sort of behaviour, do *you* really know that there was *no* reason at all? I doubt it.

Originally Posted by The Diplomat

And then probably rode through a red traffic light, or up onto the pavement...

Still, at least they weren't using their mobile phone, or looking totally in the wrong direction, or picking their nose, or fiddling with their radio, or failing to give way at a junction to a cyclist who is entitled by law to priority, or failing to undertake proper observation so they don't even *see* the cyclist, or cutting them up in traffic...

Yes, certainly you can have your big tar brush back now...

[Scarlett]

The problem exists on both sides of the fence, I have seen cyclists who just go where they want, when they want and don't think to look behind them (and anyone who's driven in Cambridge will know what I mean).

I've also had problems with other car drivers who seem to think that I must be phsycic judging from the way they drive.

Until we get these people off the road this will continue but it seems that the same group of people are at fault both times, i.e. those that do not consider other road users.

It's clear that the posters to this thread appear to be in the other group that do consider other road users and the problem seems not to be that cyclists are good/bad on the road but that people, be they cyclists or car drivers (or both), either think that the road is there specifiaclly for them or that the road is there for all to use equaly.

BTW, This group of people can also hold there hands up for all the extra £ÃÆ ’‚£Ãà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚£ that I have pay for car insurance!

http://blogs.nthellworld.co.uk/homealone/

Originally Posted by Lord Nikon

I think there should be a law brought into place regarding cyclists.

I think there *are* laws in place regarding cyclists.

Currently they are the ONLY road user not required to pass a test before using the road,

I would not argue against a sensible programme of cycling instruction.

not required to have their vehicle inspected annually and therefore not responsible for problems they cause.

The law already requires that cycles be kept in IIRC "good mechanical order" and that they have lights to use at night. There is nothing which says that "cyclists are not responsible for the problems they cause".

(NB Cyclists can receive "on the spot" fines of £30 for each light they don't have.)

However as regards a cycle "MOT", there is a massive difference between a cycle and any other common road vehicle. Consider the individual parts of a cycle and you realise there aren't exactly many of them:

Tyres, brakes, "drive train" (chain, gears, pedals), headset/ handlebars, frame, reflectors, lights and, well that's really about it!

Now if any one of those fails (except for lights and reflectors), the bike probably isn't going anywhere until it's fixed anyway, so a requirement to *prove* they work is rather pointless.

they should carry license plates.

A perennial suggestion with several major drawbacks:

1) Where would you put the licence plate without making it either too small to read, redesigning the bike, having it obscured by the rider or making it a physical hazard?

2) Licencing schemes are *expensive*. They require administration, notification, enforcement etc etc. The fact is that the only way to make such a system work would cost so much that it would price a lot of cyclists off the road entirely.

3) Cycle licencing schemes have been tried in various parts of the world including several areas of the United States and have been found to be unworkable and a waste of taxpayers' money and Police time.

Why should every other road user be bound by the laws of the road and them be free to do as they please?

Sorry? Just because some cyclists break the law or act in irresponsible ways does *NOT* mean that they are "free to do as they please"!

They are THE most vulnerable road user, and yet they are in some (not all) cases the ones responsible for the accidents they are involved in.

Yes, they are responsible for *SOME* of the accidents, especially if riding irresponsibly, but the *dangerous* accidents tend to be the ones that tend to involve motorists and the "sorry mate, I didn't see you" syndrome.

or just generally unstable on a bike.

Quoting from paragraph 136 of the highway code: "be aware of other vehicles especially cycles and motorcycles. These are more difficult to see than larger vehicles and their riders are particularly vulnerable. Give them plenty of room, especially if you are driving a long vehicle or towing a trailer"

Example - a cyclist rides out of a sidestreet without warning, you hit your brakes, a car runs up the back of you...

The car that hit you is at fault, The cyclist gets away from the scene and you have no way of establishing who it was, no number plate, generic cycle and no eyewitnesses can identify them.

The cyclist caused the accident, yet cannot be found.

This needs to be redressed.

This is utter nonsense.

You say it yourself "The car that hit you is at fault", not the cyclist/ small child/ mother with pram, but the driver who was *too close* behind you. Full stop. End of story.

Originally Posted by Lord Nikon

my response would have been "I have a license which proves I have a working knowlege of the highway code, where is yours?"

ROFL!

Sorry, how many drivers have ever even *LOOKED* at a copy of their Highway Code since they passed their driving test???

[Mal]

1) I love it when you're walking on the pavement and you have to jump out of the way when a cyclist goes by on the pavement. It makes it even better when they look at you like you're the muppet for walking on the pavement in the first place.

2) I love it when you walk round a corner and you walk into a cyclist who didn't obviously think that there could be a pedestrian coming.

I don't drive or cycle, I'm a pedestrian.

Sorry, rant over.

[Lord Nikon]

Originally Posted by basa

[snip]
Same scenario, only this time with motorcycle or car. Are you going to be able to read and remember a number plate in this weather ?? Unlikely.

Personally? unlikely if I was the driver, HOWEVER, this is where witnesses are useful. A license plate would be an identifying mark on the cycle which WOULD allow someone to take note of it.

Cyclists are generally amongst the safest of road users (with a few notable exceptions !) .....they have to be to stay alive. Think who comes off worst in an accident between car / lorry / bus and a bicycle ????

Speaking as a former cyclist (who took the Cycling Proficiency, who has a bike licence, who has also taken skid pan training in a car etc) They are not. How many cyclists try to squeeze the last possible mile out of a bald tyre? How many cyclists know their tyre pressures? How many cyclists have misaligned deralieurs on their gears? How many cyclists have working brakes both front & rear? How many cyclists have loose spokes on their wheels? Damaged Pedals? Loose Front bearings? Kinked Wheels?

Those mechanical problems many leave on their bikes are WHY I say they should have an MOT equivalent. Many cyclists are not aware of some of the problems, same as many car drivers are ignorant of mechanical problems until their car fails the MOT.

With more and more people returning to cycling as a means of transportation we MUST for EVERYONE's safety start imposing regulations on cycle safety.
Yes, I FULLY agree that in an accident the cyclist comes off worse, be it their fault, the cycle's fault, or the other person's fault, but lets start making the cycles people ride safer for them by reducing the amount of accidents caused by inept riders or mechanical faults on the bike.

Only two days ago I had to swerve and brake because a car cut a corner on me. My front wheel hit an ice patch and now I sport a badly grazed knee, shin and pride plus one pedal is slightly out of 'skew'. Not much I grant you, but the driver was blissfully unaware of what they had done and carried on in their nice cosy car listening to the radio no doubt !!

There is no excuse for an ignorant driver, and I am not trying to make one. However as you said, your pedal is now out of 'skew' and will either require you to obtain a new set of pedals or a new crank. Something I am sure you are already looking into. However, what I AM saying is many cyclists would continue to ride the bike as is, and not get it checked for any less obvious defects which could result in another accident at a later point.

[peachey]

do you reckon they
should give mothers proficiency tests with
pushchairs

as they are always shoving them into you ankles in shopping centres and into the road between parked cars

my advice - take care with the pushchair
especially at this time of year - lots of ankles around

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by basa

If he could 'whack' your car as you passed.....YOU WERE TOO CLOSE !!!!!!!!

It's difficult enough cycling in this weather, rain blinds you, gusty wind causes you to wobble, glass in the gutter (which is where we have to cycle !) causes you to avoid it, not to mention those 'local govt workers' who pull right over to the kerb when a car is turning right in front so you can't get past. Yeh like they are gonna get through !!




Same scenario, only this time with motorcycle or car. Are you going to be able to read and remember a number plate in this weather ?? Unlikely.

Cyclists are generally amongst the safest of road users (with a few notable exceptions !) .....they have to be to stay alive. Think who comes off worst in an accident between car / lorry / bus and a bicycle ????

Only two days ago I had to swerve and brake because a car cut a corner on me. My front wheel hit an ice patch and now I sport a badly grazed knee, shin and pride plus one pedal is slightly out of 'skew'. Not much I grant you, but the driver was blissfully unaware of what they had done and carried on in their nice cosy car listening to the radio no doubt !!

I dont think the non-cyclists were generalising about all cyclists, but I hate it when I pull up to a traffic light and the cyclist comes up the inside and then pulls straight in front of me and stops with his right foot in front of my car. When the light changes to green I am then being held up by this cyclist who is now directly in front of me, he has gained nothing himself but annoyed other road users with his actions. I used to cycle but think that the roads are too busy and unsafe to do so these days, I also hate when they look over their shoulder at you and drive straight off the pavement they have been travelling on knowing that you will swerve or brake for them because the car is always in the wrong.

"Many" not all cyclists are like some pedestrians, they will not use any road/traffic sense and are certainly not considered to be in the wrong when they get knocked over by a car.

It's a cold fact that I always ask, How many pedestrians are knocked over whilst walking down the pavement. I also get annoyed when someone walks out into the road and gets run-over, the driver fails the breath test and it's his fault entirely. No way do I agree with drink driving, but no way do I agree with putting the blame on it in cases where a pedestrian just walked drunken possibly himself into the road.

I think too much pressure is put on motorists who are not to blame in road accidents involving Bikes or Pedestrians. If the vehicle driver was following the highway code he should not be made to look like some very guilty person, an accident is an accident and people should not look for easy targets to apportion the blame.

[The Diplomat]

Graham, I wasn't suggesting for one minute that ALL cylclists jump red lights/ride on the pavement .... it just seems to happen quite often, and more importantly, NEVER seems to be punished. Unlike the motorists who are persecuted for the slightest transgressions.

Try popping down to The Hard when the Gosport Ferry comes in and count the cyclists on the pavement there... or Southsea seafront .... or Commercial Road precinct.

Is it an offence for a cyclist to use a mobile phone whilst riding a bike?

[Lord Nikon]

To address both your posts Graham...

Firstly - Yes, BUT the cycle was a contributory factor. The license plate would be the Cyclists home postcode plus house number, a form of registration some cyclists are already stamping into the frame for anti theft purposes.

As for how often do motorists look at the highway code? not often in some cases, in a survey a few years ago, some drivers were not aware of the meaning of quite a few road signs they saw regularly. This should also be addressed.

The current driving licence system is ludicrous. You pass your test at 17/18 and that's all you need to do till you are 70. IMHO Eye tests should be compulsory every 2 years (as the opticians etc recommend anyway) and a driver knowlege test every 10 years or so.

eye sight can deteriorate a hell of a lot in the 53 years a license is valid for, and if this deterioration is gradual then you may not be aware of the problem until you have an accident.

[basa]

Originally Posted by Escapee

......., but I hate it when I pull up to a traffic light and the cyclist comes up the inside and then pulls straight in front of me and stops with his right foot in front of my car. When the light changes to green I am then being held up by this cyclist who is now directly in front of me, he has gained nothing himself but annoyed other road users with his actions.

And who said here how they hate cyclists who go on the pavement at traffic lights !! Seems you're damned if you do, damned if you don't

Originally Posted by Escapee

I used to cycle but think that the roads are too busy and unsafe to do so these days,

Now I wonder whose fault that is, oh yes all these thousands of cyclists barrelling all over the place. Don't think so !

Originally Posted by Escapee

I also hate when they look over their shoulder at you and drive straight off the pavement they have been travelling on knowing that you will swerve or brake for them because the car is always in the wrong.

I think this is foolhardy on behalf of any cyclist since it is only he who will end in hospital !

Originally Posted by Escapee

"Many" not all cyclists are like some pedestrians, they will not use any road/traffic sense and are certainly not considered to be in the wrong when they get knocked over by a car.

The "many" are probably young children who should be given due consideration whether walking or cycling.

Originally Posted by Escapee

It's a cold fact that I always ask, How many pedestrians are knocked over whilst walking down the pavement. I also get annoyed when someone walks out into the road and gets run-over, the driver fails the breath test and it's his fault entirely. No way do I agree with drink driving, but no way do I agree with putting the blame on it in cases where a pedestrian just walked drunken possibly himself into the road.

I think too much pressure is put on motorists who are not to blame in road accidents involving Bikes or Pedestrians. If the vehicle driver was following the highway code he should not be made to look like some very guilty person, an accident is an accident and people should not look for easy targets to apportion the blame.

It's the cyclists and pedestrians who are the easy targets !!

The laws of the road apply to ALL users whether on 2 or 4 wheels or legs.