Here comes the tax rises

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Anyone who works in the private sector and is unhappy about public sector pay rises might want to consider joining a union

They might also find themselves considerably less pay in the public sector for equivalent jobs ( better pension possibly, but if its based on lower pay then its swings and roundabouts). Each person's choice where to work, but given the many vacancies in certain areas of the public sector and the erosion of pay there over the last 14 years, then we can see where most have chosen. Move to the public sector and take a pay cut if they want.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mr K

They might also find themselves considerably less pay in the public sector for equivalent jobs ( better pension possibly, but if its based on lower pay then its swings and roundabouts). Each person's choice where to work, but given the many vacancies in certain areas of the public sector and the erosion of pay there over the last 14 years, then we can see where most have chosen. Move to the public sector and take a pay cut if they want.

It’s not the public sector wages - it’s the agencies that milk it for temps or contractors under the guise of “helping”. Agency nurses. Look up the daily rates of the folk who worked during Covid contact tracing. Daily rates of many hundreds of pounds to do…. Admin.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Mr K

They might also find themselves considerably less pay in the public sector for equivalent jobs ( better pension possibly, but if its based on lower pay then its swings and roundabouts). Each person's choice where to work, but given the many vacancies in certain areas of the public sector and the erosion of pay there over the last 14 years, then we can see where most have chosen. Move to the public sector and take a pay cut if they want.

That’s always the puzzle when people comment on public sector pay and benefits. On one side, public sector employees get great things but on the other, nobody wants to work there. Teaching is the best example of he rhetoric where, if everything said about the teaching profession is true (working until 3:30, having school holidays off, etc.) you would expect people to be queuing round the block for some of that action. Instead, there’s a huge shortage of teachers for some subjects

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mr K

They might also find themselves considerably less pay in the public sector for equivalent jobs

There used to be a lot of truth in that, but not so much nowadays. Much of the low skilled work has been outsourced to private contractors.

Professional jobs still require professional salaries.

Chief execs can earn astronomical salaries, without the jeopardy of being ousted by shareholders.

Originally Posted by Paul

Its almost is if they were the only ones.

I mean, its not like my pay rises have also been pathetic ...... oh wait, they have.

That's not an argument for not at least matching inflation in the public sector. Maybe if the public sector wasn't bad so badly then the private sector would need to follow suit.

Incidentally, the private sector did see much better increases than the public one: https://ifs.org.uk/publications/rece...%20by%200.3%25.

These recent trends come on top of poor earnings performance in both sectors since 2007. Real public sector pay at the end of 2023 was still 1% lower than its level at the beginning of 2007. Real private sector pay increased by 4% from 2007 to 2023

Over 10 years it's even worse for those in the NHS:

Within the public sector, some high-profile professions (nurses, and particularly teachers and hospital doctors) have seen considerably worse pay growth than the average public sector worker. Indeed,teachers saw large reductions in average real pay from 2010 to 2019 (falling 13%) but have seen stronger pay growth since then (with pay 5% higher in September 2023 than in April 2019 after accounting for the pay deals agreed last summer). Overall, this still leaves average teachers’ pay in September 2023 9% lower than in 2010.

As I said before how long did everyone really think this could last?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Damien

As I said before how long did everyone really think this could last?

Tbh for some since it’s completely ideological they probably assumed it could last until every public service was essentially outsourced, profits offshored, workers rights eroded.

NHS functions getting outsourced is a profit making opportunity for someone. Similarly why pay a teacher when a teaching assistant can babysit just as effectively to let mummy and daddy work 50 hour weeks for tax-credit topped up poverty wages? More profit out there for someone.

You only need to look at England’s water “industry” see where it all goes.

[Taf]

The Civil Service department I worked in was outsourced to a private company, with all buildings, stocks, spares, contracts and personnel handed over.

The private company used to be a Civil Service entity itself, so was headed by ex-Civil Service bosses who still had the Whitehall mentality and disdain for the lower echelons of staff. Every one of their technical staff told me that they hadn't had a pay rise in many years, they had to do many hours of unpaid overtime just to keep on top of their work, and many were planning to resign.

Most of the senior and admin staff moved sideways to other Civil Service jobs, but the technical and support staffing was gutted from several hundreds to a few dozen across England and Wales. Luckily, we were protected under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) regulations (TUPE), so our pay, conditions and rules for redundancy stayed the same.

But that did not stop the new owners from trying it on. I, and many others, were selected (illegally) for redundancy, and were blocked from automatic promotion, and the associated pay and pension rises.

It was the eve of the Industrial Tribunal that the new owners relented, and had to pay out for redundancy levels as per TUPE. They also had to pay us compensation for illegal selection for redundancy. KERCHING!!!

Within 6 months, the department's buildings had been sold, along with the stocks and spares, the last of the staff had been made redundant, and the contracts moved to yet another company. The customers were given very little notice to look elsewhere for someone else to look after them.

It was many years later, a month before they had to start paying my pension, that I got a letter from them demanding that I sign an attached letter and return it by prepaid courier. I smelled a rat, so after a flurry of emails and phonecalls, a bod in Whitehall told me that I had "fallen through the cracks" and that the pension rate the owners wanted to pay was not anywhere what it should be under TUPE. Signing the letter they had sent would have nullified TUPE.

My first payment was at the paltry rate, but then I was informed by the same bod in Whitehall that I would soon receive the correct rate and full backpay. But a few months after, I was informed that I had been awarded promotion in retrospect, so would receive an even higher rate of pension and backpay.

So much for gold-plated pensions and job security in the Civil Service.

As the title says "Here comes the tax rises".

October's Budget will be "painful" and the government will have to make "big asks" of the public, Sir Keir Starmer has warned.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyn01p5npgo

He did not set out the details of what would be in the Budget but said those with the "broadest shoulders should bear the heavier burden".

[denphone]

Gruel for the next few years unsurprisedly with hopefully some jam at the end of it.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by denphone

Gruel for the next few years unsurprisedly with hopefully some jam at the end of it.

caviar and champagne for doctors, train drivers and friends of the communist party of gb

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

caviar and champagne for doctors, train drivers and friends of the communist party of gb

While pensioners make the choice of heat or eat.

Talk about the truly nasty party.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

While pensioners make the choice of heat or eat.

Talk about the truly nasty party.

Apparently pensioners don't vote labour so they are expendable.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

caviar and champagne for doctors, train drivers and friends of the communist party of gb

Rather them than chums and donors who were whisked up a vip lane to the champagne and caviar trough to fill their boots, don't remember you complaining much then smurf so sit down and stop with the gas lighting, the frozen tax allowances and years of under inflation pay rises are what's led us here, all so people like michelle mone could rip the backside out of the country

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

While pensioners make the choice of heat or eat.

Talk about the truly nasty party.

Don't think Alan Sugar is choosing between heating and eating but guess what, he got the winter fuel allowance for years, what an unbelievably nasty party

[denphone]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

While pensioners make the choice of heat or eat.

Talk about the truly nasty party.

With a £22 billion financial black hole that the previous government left the new incumbents, hard choices have to be made and the Tories would have had the same hard choices if they had retained power.

The best thing about a Labour Government is the people who suddenly care about benefits being cut. They're right of course but it would have been good to have their support when it was literally every other sector of society being targetted.