Israel, Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran … War

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by jfman

Ongoing, persistent, strategic attacks on Hamas people and infrastructure.

This is the same Israel that hunted down the terrorists down after the Munich Olympics, and hunted down Nazis for decades. They know how to play the long game. They’re experts.

Exactly this. There are other ways, the long game as you put it. However that does not present Israel the opportunity to bomb Gaza back to the stone age and try and force the remaining Palestinians to flee. After all, what are they returning to? A lot of what they left behind in northern Gaza is rubble.

Ethnic cleaning has always been a Likud priority as evidenced in the West Bank and this opportunity in Gaza was too good to miss.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Without the mass slaughter of thousands of civilians.

Well that’s already incorrect.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Israeli aggression towards Palestinians doesn’t just occur in Gaza as long as it continues in other areas then that will give Hamas et all the other crackpot nut jobs an excuse to continue.

There are elements of the israeli population who have used this latest part of the conflict to increase land grabs

To draw a parallel:

In 1938, Germany was given the go ahead to seize the Sudentenland, which they'd settled with Germans. This gave them the courage to invade Poland and we all knew what followed.

We went to war with Germany and ultimately zapped them with all the collateral damage (on both sides) that ensued.

War is war and none of you can suggest how Hams can be eliminated other than linking their barbarism to finding a solution for the West Bank.

If the West Bank Palestinians took up arms against Israel in frustration of the behaviour of Israel's Ultras (seizing land in the West Bank and other crimes), there would be some sympathy for the Palestinians unless they crossed the red line that Hamas chose to cross.

There's the difference and your linkage to the West Bank situation is a distraction.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Then if the attack came from the West Bank you’d have a point, but it came from Gaza, which has effectively been a defacto independent Palestinian state since 2005.

---------- Post added at 20:39 ---------- Previous post was at 20:39 ----------



Which is it then?

I think we’re at crossed purposes but agreeing?

Hamas in Gaza will use Israel’s aggression in other areas as just another reason to continue. It’s all intrinsically interlinked.

---------- Post added at 20:54 ---------- Previous post was at 20:45 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

To draw a parallel:

In 1938, Germany was given the go ahead to seize the Sudentenland, which they'd settled with Germans. This gave them the courage to invade Poland and we all knew what followed.

We went to war with Germany and ultimately zapped them with all the collateral damage (on both sides) that ensued.

War is war and none of you can suggest how Hams can be eliminated other than linking their barbarism to finding a solution for the West Bank.

If the West Bank Palestinians took up arms against Israel in frustration of the behaviour of Israel's Ultras (seizing land in the West Bank and other crimes), there would be some sympathy for the Palestinians unless they crossed the red line that Hamas chose to cross.

There's the difference and your linkage to the West Bank situation is a distraction.

Well for one it’s not just Israeli ultras seizing land in the West Bank it’s IDF reservists with the backing of the other security services.

Secondly a lot of the rules for armed conflict were born from ww2

By your logic we can only ask questions if we’re able to provide answers would pretty much put and end to science and philosophy

War may be war but it has rules and the actions of one party don’t justify the actions of others

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

War is war and none of you can suggest how Hams can be eliminated other than linking their barbarism to finding a solution for the West Bank.

jfman has:

Originally Posted by jfman

Ongoing, persistent, strategic attacks on Hamas people and infrastructure.

This is the same Israel that hunted down the terrorists down after the Munich Olympics, and hunted down Nazis for decades. They know how to play the long game. They’re experts.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

I think we’re at crossed purposes but agreeing?

Hamas in Gaza will use Israel’s aggression in other areas as just another reason to continue. It’s all intrinsically interlinked.

---------- Post added at 20:54 ---------- Previous post was at 20:45 ----------



Well for one it’s not just Israeli ultras seizing land in the West Bank it’s IDF reservists with the backing of the other security services.

Secondly a lot of the rules for armed conflict were born from ww2

By your logic we can only ask questions if we’re able to provide answers would pretty much put and end to science and philosophy

War may be war but it has rules and the actions of one party don’t justify the actions of others

Jeez - you do spout a lot of crap. A deflection in this case.

When one party butchers the other, expect retaliation - and that has consequences.

[mrmistoffelees]

Sephi,

Since you seem to want answers provided let me ask you a direct question.

How many Palestinian lives being lost is a justifiable amount for Israel to destroy Hamas ?

Or, are you useless too ?

---------- Post added at 21:16 ---------- Previous post was at 21:15 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Jeez - you do spout a lot of crap. A deflection in this case.

When one party butchers the other, expect retaliation - and that has consequences.

Indeed & perhaps I do but I’m still significantly behind you in the word salad stakes.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

How many Palestinian lives being lost is a justifiable amount for Israel to destroy Hamas ?

It’s a fake question. You, Ian, Layla Moran on Question Time.

It’s a gotcha question, it serves no purpose other than to try and make the questioner look superior.

How many European lives was a justifiable amount to defeat the Nazis?

20 million?

Nobody can make the assessment.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Pierre

It’s a fake question. You, Ian, Layla Moran on Question Time.

It’s a gotcha question, it serves no purpose other than to try and make the questioner look superior.

How many European lives was a justifiable amount to defeat the Nazis?

20 million?

Nobody can make the assessment.

Military planners make that decision everyday be that in exercise or in an actual theatre of war. So nobody isn’t quite correct.

I’m not trying to make myself look superior in anyway shape or form. if Sephi wants to call people useless because they can’t answer the questions raised then Sephi can either give an answer to my question or accept to being just as useless as the rest of us.

So then Sephi my old mucker, which is it ?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

It’s a fake question. You, Ian, Layla Moran on Question Time.

It’s a gotcha question, it serves no purpose other than to try and make the questioner look superior.

How many European lives was a justifiable amount to defeat the Nazis?

20 million?

Nobody can make the assessment.

It’s not a gotcha question it’s the one the IDF ask themselves every time they launch an air strike on a mosque, on a hospital, on a refugee camp. As yourself 12,000 times in about two months and add them all up.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Sephi,

Since you seem to want answers provided let me ask you a direct question.

How many Palestinian lives being lost is a justifiable amount for Israel to destroy Hamas ?

Or, are you useless too ?

---------- Post added at 21:16 ---------- Previous post was at 21:15 ----------



Indeed & perhaps I do but I’m still significantly behind you in the word salad stakes.

I'll tell you what's wrong with this question: it puts the cart before the horse which is why it can't be answered. Hamas attacked Israel brutally and Israel retaliated.

You lot are asking the wrong question and being quite illogical.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

[COLOR="Blue"]I'll tell you what's wrong with this question: it puts the cart before the horse which is why it can't be answered. Hamas attacked Israel brutally and Israel retaliated.

You lot are asking the wrong question and being quite illogical.
/COLOR]

Nope, you’re not weaselling out of it. Either give a number to the question I asked or accept you’re just as useless as me.

To paraphrase the great Dr. Cox

It’s you, Sephi. Hypocrisy, thy name is you.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I'll tell you what's wrong with this question: it puts the cart before the horse which is why it can't be answered. Hamas attacked Israel brutally and Israel retaliated.

You lot are asking the wrong question and being quite illogical.

And Israel has been brutally slaughtering Palestinians for decades. The “start date” of October 7 is completely arbitrary, for no other reason to attempt to give some legitimacy to Israeli actions that if they were against non-Muslims or non-Arabs would unquestionably universally condemned. Politicians were unwavering in their condemnation of Putin for killing less civilians in a military operation that has gone on ten times longer.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Nope, you’re not weaselling out of it. Either give a number to the question I asked or accept you’re just as useless as me.

To paraphrase the great Dr. Cox

It’s you, Sephi. Hypocrisy, thy name is you.

I'm weaselling out of nothing. Ask a question that can be answered and I'll try - like I answered Roughbeast.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Sephi,

Since you seem to want answers provided let me ask you a direct question.

How many Palestinian lives being lost is a justifiable amount for Israel to destroy Hamas ?

Or, are you useless too ?

---------- Post added at 21:16 ---------- Previous post was at 21:15 ----------



Indeed & perhaps I do but I’m still significantly behind you in the word salad stakes.

You are wasting your time. I have asked this question a number of times. They won't answer it because it does not matter to them. They are content with any number.