Coronavirus (OLD)

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

According to the government’s own 5 step plan, any future lock would only be applied if the NHS was in imminent threat of being overwhelmed. Which it is’n’t.

I think any future lockdowns or more restrictive measures should go through Parliament.

Anything to stall it, eh?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

Anything to stall it, eh?

I would have thought you would always want the government held to account and for Parliament to be sovereign?

Originally Posted by .jfman
It’s somewhat naive of you to simply take everything Government says at face value

Yes, I Am going to throw this at You with regular monotony

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I would have thought you would always want the government held to account and for Parliament to be sovereign?

Yes, I Am going to throw this at You with regular monotony

I’m not really sure why - I accused you of taking “everything” the Government says at face value without nuance or thinking there could be an ulterior motive. That doesn’t mean I never take the Government at face value - there’s a balanced position in the middle. I know those are quite rare in the current affairs section here.

Parliament can always vote of no confidence Boris. Or the party could. I’m not worried too much about it though. Lockdown/restrictions has, and always will, make sense for the situation we are in now. Parliament isn’t going to vote to let voters die.

Just met a fellow dog-walker this morning, who’s an anaesthesiologist at a local hospital - Leeds ICUs are filling up with COVID patients again.

Learnt something new about COVID from her - COVID patients (even non-ICU) with no previous history of kidney problems are suffering from medium to severe kidney damage, requiring dialysis - this is a challenge, as the system is set up to cater for around 6,500 new patients needing dialysis a year, and it’s looking like it will be 10s of thousands in the very near future.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

More laughable nonsense Old Boy. A mere few posts ago you were questioning whether a vaccine would have lasting effects yet here you are advocating herd immunity again. There’s either lasting immunity or there isn’t. The contradictions are almost endless.

Nobody has all the answers, I agree with that, but some people have absolutely none. Nothing but noise filling a void in an empty hope that GDP will recover without solving the health emergency.

As ever Old Boy I’ve got extremely bad news for you. It’s going to be a long hard winter.

The only thing bizarre here is the fact you seem to contradict everything I say for the sake of it despite your track record of being proven wrong time and again. We’re never going to go down the Sweden route here so you better cross your fingers that the vaccine works and we get first dibs or this recession will go on for years.

When did I say herd immunity was 'lasting'? Your word, not mine.

I am absolutely convinced that herd immunity is the solution. However, if we keep slowing the virus down like this and the immunity is only relatively short term, it could come back and re-infect those who have already had it. That is the risk we take by having lockdowns.

There is nothing contradictory about my argument on this. It is you twisting what I am saying.

As for the economy, that will recover provided the PM isn't pushed into a position of having a second national lockdown of the kind we saw this spring. A second lockdown would indeed be disastrous for the economy, as well as rather pointless.

Originally Posted by pip08456

The Police (non) response to Ex Reb protests have made a rod for their own backs. They have no-one but themselves to blame.

They arrested over 600 people...

https://www.itv.com/news/london/2020...in-the-capital

On (the) Saturday afternoon, an XR "Citizens Assemble!" gathering was dispersed by police in Trafalgar Square.

During the peaceful protest outside the National Gallery, activists sat on the ground and listened to speeches while surrounded by a large police presence.

Officers asked the group to move on, with most dispersing by around 2.30pm.

Some that refused to leave the area were carried or led away by police, including one man in handcuffs.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

When did I say herd immunity was 'lasting'? Your word, not mine.

I am absolutely convinced that herd immunity is the solution. However, if we keep slowing the virus down like this and the immunity is only relatively short term, it could come back and re-infect those who have already had it. That is the risk we take by having lockdowns.

There is nothing contradictory about my argument on this. It is you twisting what I am saying.

As for the economy, that will recover provided the PM isn't pushed into a position of having a second national lockdown of the kind we saw this spring. A second lockdown would indeed be disastrous for the economy, as well as rather pointless.

So you’re convinced that the solution is herd immunity, but are unconvinced that such immunity will be lasting, as long as we open up the economy to put more people at risk?

Well, Old Boy. There’s nothing I can really say to such ignorance.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Just met a fellow dog-walker this morning, who’s an anaesthesiologist at a local hospital - Leeds ICUs are filling up with COVID patients again.

Learnt something new about COVID from her - COVID patients (even non-ICU) with no previous history of kidney problems are suffering from medium to severe kidney damage, requiring dialysis - this is a challenge, as the system is set up to cater for around 6,500 new patients needing dialysis a year, and it’s looking like it will be 10s of thousands in the very near future.

From 13th July 2020:
Coronavirus warning from Italy: Effects of COVID-19 could be worse than first thought

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...ought-12027348

Psychosis, insomnia, kidney disease, spinal infections, strokes, chronic tiredness and mobility issues are being identified in former coronavirus patients in Lombardy, the worst-affected region in the country.

The doctors warn that some victims may never recover from the illness and that all age groups are vulnerable.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

So you’re convinced that the solution is herd immunity, but are unconvinced that such immunity will be lasting, as long as we open up the economy to put more people at risk?

Well, Old Boy. There’s nothing I can really say to such ignorance.

You still don't get it.

Herd immunity is nature. It will arise when the virus has infected the vast majority of people, and once that has happened, the virus will have run its course.

These lockdowns are simply delaying our acquisition of herd immunity, and risking mutation. Not only that, but by delaying the spread of Covid 19, it is even possible that it will remain a threat as some may lose the immunity they developed from the virus in the first place.

Play with nature like this and you play with fire.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You still don't get it.

Herd immunity is nature. It will arise when the virus has infected the vast majority of people, and once that has happened, the virus will have run its course.

These lockdowns are simply delaying our acquisition of herd immunity, and risking mutation. Not only that, but by delaying the spread of Covid 19, it is even possible that it will remain a threat as some may lose the immunity they developed from the virus in the first place.

Play with nature like this and you play with fire.

Not true - people still have to be immunised against Measles, Rubella, Diptheria, Mumps, etc...

Why may some lose the immunity they developed if we delay the spread, but not if we let it run loose through the population?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You still don't get it.

Herd immunity is nature. It will arise when the virus has infected the vast majority of people, and once that has happened, the virus will have run its course.

These lockdowns are simply delaying our acquisition of herd immunity, and risking mutation. Not only that, but by delaying the spread of Covid 19, it is even possible that it will remain a threat as some may lose the immunity they developed from the virus in the first place.

Play with nature like this and you play with fire.

Is that the immunity a mere few posts ago you were unconvinced by?

I think you should take the next lockdown as an opportunity to take a few weeks away from the thread and think about what valid contributions you actually want to make to it. Thus far it's just been contradiction after contradiction.

The only consistent point you've made throughout it is that you care more about reopening the economy than you do public health. Your hypothetical decision to let the virus rip throughout the world at the cost of millions of lives, tens of millions of people developing debilitating contditions - it'd have to be the world or else we'd simply re-import these hypothetical mutated strains - is to give the virus billions of opportunities to mutate. Another contradiction.

The sum total of human existence to date has been to try and fight against nature. Take your "play with fire" rhetoric elsewhere.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

Is that the immunity a mere few posts ago you were unconvinced by?

I think you should take the next lockdown as an opportunity to take a few weeks away from the thread and think about what valid contributions you actually want to make to it. Thus far it's just been contradiction after contradiction.

The only consistent point you've made throughout it is that you care more about reopening the economy than you do public health. Your hypothetical decision to let the virus rip throughout the world at the cost of millions of lives, tens of millions of people developing debilitating contditions it'd have to be the world or else we'd simply re-import these hypothetical mutated strains - is to give the virus billions of opportunities to mutate. Another contradiction.

The sum total of human existence to date has been to try and fight against nature. Take your "play with fire" rhetoric elsewhere.

Unsubstantiated scaremongering sensationalist Language!

7 months into he pandemic we haven’t yet reached 1 million deaths.

Please let us be careful with our language.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Unsubstantiated scaremongering sensationalist bollocks.

7 months into he pandemic we haven’t yet reached 1 million deaths.

Haha. And most of the world had to lock down at some point or other to achieve that - which I'm sure you'll agree means the last 7 months aren't comparable with the situation Old Boy describes.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=4687

Stumbled across an old post of yours earlier. Hasn't aged very well has it, seeing as we are now in the second wave?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

Haha. And most of the world had to lock down at some point or other to achieve that - which I'm sure you'll agree means the last 7 months aren't comparable with the situation Old Boy describes.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=4687

Stumbled across an old post of yours earlier. Hasn't aged very well has it, seeing as we are now in the second wave?

Sorry Meg,

Gloat all you want But it is a tad premature, no surprise to you I’m sure. I’ll chow down on humble pie just fine, But I’ll take it when we have 1,100 deaths per day , not when we have 27.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Sorry Meg,

Gloat all you want But it is a tad premature, no surprise to you I’m sure. I’ll chow down on humble pie just fine, But I’ll take it when we have 1,100 deaths per day , not when we have 27.

Well, to be honest I'd rather not see the 1,100 deaths a day so hopefully these measures being brought in imminently will be helpful in reducing the number, and in particular the number of serious cases.