Post-Brexit Thread

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by techguyone

They did. Those that were eligible and who actually bothered to vote.

So stop being a dick about it and wind your neck in.

Debate by insult .. nice.

Merry Christmas!

Originally Posted by ianch99

Disagree, it has all the relevance in the world. Firstly, it misrepresents the perceived "will of the country" as a whole. If you go about claiming that Brexit "was what the majority of British people voted for" you are just plain wrong and, more importantly, you misrepresent the reality of where we are today.

The UK is divided and, as Gary would say, Dave divided it. Mrs May has the unenviable job of trying to unify this divided nation and she will not do that that pandering only to the views of one side or the other.

She must find a middle ground and both sides must make compromises in finding a Brexit solution that causes the least economic damage but still fulfilling the referendum decision to leave the EU.

Democracy ... the worst system ... apart from all the others.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Agreed. Just stop saying that the "majority of British people voted for" Leave ... they did not.

I don't believe that you would be as pedantic if the 'remain' camp had won.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

Democracy ... the worst system ... apart from all the others.

Oh, you mean the form of Democracy chosen for the referendum? As you well know, there were a number of choices available:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermajority

but we are where we are ... but let's all be honest about it, eh?

---------- Post added at 14:03 ---------- Previous post was at 14:02 ----------

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I don't believe that you would be as pedantic if the 'remain' camp had won.

You misunderstand the purpose of the referendum. The goal was to change the status quo so your point has no meaning.

I can't say I'm surprised that you might have preferred a supermajority, seeing as it would have favoured the position you happen to hold.

Our membership was affirmed by simple majority in 1975. It will be terminated as a result of a simple majority in 2016. Our dealings with the EU will thenceforth be a matter of government policy, just as they are in our dealings with the USA, Canada, India, China or wherever. None of these are referendum issues; they are part of a government's usual activity, and we can pass judgment on that by hiring and firing the government by the usual democratic process. If you want a say on how Brexit turned out, then you will get it in 2020.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

I can't say I'm surprised that you might have preferred a supermajority, seeing as it would have favoured the position you happen to hold.

Our membership was affirmed by simple majority in 1975. It will be terminated as a result of a simple majority in 2016. Our dealings with the EU will thenceforth be a matter of government policy, just as they are in our dealings with the USA, Canada, India, China or wherever. None of these are referendum issues; they are part of a government's usual activity, and we can pass judgment on that by hiring and firing the government by the usual democratic process. If you want a say on how Brexit turned out, then you will get it in 2020.

It is more profound that just favouring a particular position. This vote had/has the potential to fundamentally change the social, economic and structural aspects of the United Kingdom in a far more profound way than a 5 yearly General Election can ever do/has ever done.

If an elected Government, voted in on a detailed manifesto, starts to change things that the electorate, in hindsight, does not agree with, they can get voted out of office.

Will we get a Brexit referendum every 5 years if we don't like how things are playing out? No we will not.

And yes, the decision to join in 1975 should also have been a supermajority.

Sorry, I'm not buying it. There is nothing uniquely virtuous about membership of the EU. All of the decisions it took on our behalf we are well able to take for ourselves. All the dealings we will now have with it, are dealings we already have with the rest of the world. The UK is a very old, very stable democracy. It has existed for a long time and by comparison our 40 years in the EU is the mere blink of an eye. All we are going to experience over the next few years is a return to normality as most of the rest of the world knows it.

All you're really doing is riffing on the apocalyptic campaign strategy of the remain camp. I didn't believe it then and I don't believe it now.

I fail to see how it can be said a majority didn't vote for brexit as the only numbers that count are those who voted and the majority of voters voted for brexit. You don't have to like it but that's the fact bringing all those who didn't vote into the argument is pretty stupid because no one can claim to know their position on the issue there were probably as many supporters for brexit as there was for remain. Remainers should be happy because the way things are going we will only be out in the most timid way we will still pay into the EU in someway and i think the EU will still have too much involvement in UK affairs because basically our politicians are cowards.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

I fail to see how it can be said a majority didn't vote for brexit as the only numbers that count are those who voted and the majority of voters voted for brexit.

I don't think it's an important statistic but it's a mathematical fact which can't really be disputed even by the most extreme Brexiteer.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I don't think it's an important statistic but it's a mathematical fact which can't really be disputed even by the most extreme Brexiteer.

..and an EVEN BIGGER number didn't vote to remain. Either way you slice it the Exiters won.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OhReally

..and an EVEN BIGGER number didn't vote to remain. Either way you slice it the Exiters won.

No one's saying otherwise.
Adding a random fact in doesn't mean that another statement becomes mathematically accurate!
I've already stated that I don't think it's an important statistic.

[papa smurf]

so the majority of people didn't vote to remain so didn't vote for the status quo
therefor logically they wanted to leave the EU with what can only be described as a large majority .
i am so glad that 1andrew1 has explained it all mathematically and logically .

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

Sorry, I'm not buying it. There is nothing uniquely virtuous about membership of the EU. All of the decisions it took on our behalf we are well able to take for ourselves. All the dealings we will now have with it, are dealings we already have with the rest of the world. The UK is a very old, very stable democracy. It has existed for a long time and by comparison our 40 years in the EU is the mere blink of an eye. All we are going to experience over the next few years is a return to normality as most of the rest of the world knows it.

All you're really doing is riffing on the apocalyptic campaign strategy of the remain camp. I didn't believe it then and I don't believe it now.

You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. Let's see how this plays out and the "normality" as you describe it may or may not result in a net negative effect on the country, the Union and people's personal wealth and prospects .... but then again it may

---------- Post added at 18:19 ---------- Previous post was at 18:15 ----------

Originally Posted by papa smurf

so the majority of people didn't vote to remain so didn't vote for the status quo
therefor logically they wanted to leave the EU with what can only be described as a large majority .
i am so glad that 1andrew1 has explained it all mathematically and logically .

Utter gibberish ... but very funny

Originally Posted by OhReally

..and an EVEN BIGGER number didn't vote to remain. Either way you slice it the Exiters won.

Ah well ,that depends if you count the people who came of voting age between june 23rd and A50 day,do they not get a voice ? I think we should also remove all those who voted and have since died ,bound to be brexiters that lot

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by martyh

Ah well ,that depends if you count the people who came of voting age between june 23rd and A50 day,do they not get a voice ? I think we should also remove all those who voted and have since died ,bound to be brexiters that lot

Cue Gary Lineker's shameful Brexit joke:

Gary said: “The ambassador to the EU, Sir Ivan Rogers, has announced a Brexit deal could take 10 years.

“That’s not fair, most of the people who voted for it will be dead by then.”