Virgin should buy TiVo...

[Digital Fanatic]

Originally Posted by Perfect Choice

£3 sub is for premier service only I expect, when VM plan to put Tivo UI software on the Cisco HD only box (which as mentioned at the initial launch of Tivo), I don't expect any Tivo monthly subscription at all. That is what I expect at least.

This is how I see it.

[Cozzy]

Do we even know exactly what the £3 sub is for and who is actually getting the wonga ?

i mean are VM taking the £3 and passing the whole sum to tivo or just part of it or have VM already paid up front and are clawing back that investment

is the £3 for the EPG data or the PVR functionality or for VoD ... dont think anyone actually has explained in clear precise language exactly what you get for £3 a month (probably rising year on year but thats my speculation)

the only function the full tivo has over a standard VHD upgraded to tivo software is surely just the PVR and longer 7+day EPG and auto suggestion downloads to the box HDD as VoD will still be available on a standard box i assume

the fog doesnt get any thinner the longer we are kept waiting for clear concrete information

[mersey70]

Originally Posted by Cozzy

Do we even know exactly what the £3 sub is for and who is actually getting the wonga ?

i mean are VM taking the £3 and passing the whole sum to tivo or just part of it or have VM already paid up front and are clawing back that investment

is the £3 for the EPG data or the PVR functionality or for VoD ... dont think anyone actually has explained in clear precise language exactly what you get for £3 a month (probably rising year on year but thats my speculation)

the only function the full tivo has over a standard VHD upgraded to tivo software is surely just the PVR and longer 7+day EPG and auto suggestion downloads to the box HDD as VoD will still be available on a standard box i assume

the fog doesnt get any thinner the longer we are kept waiting for clear concrete information

Perhaps the points you raise are the reason Tivo seems to be bombing around the world, I don't know.

It would appear you pay the fee for the extra functionality and to that end I would guess Tivo (or their provders) are funded to keep the system going. But for me there lies the problem, what are you exactly paying an ongoing fee for?

I really hope I am wrong (and I accept the model in the US is different) but I genuinely cannot see swathes of people, be they here, the US or Australia paying for extra functionality when they probably don't really require it, even £3 a month. There is no fee for Tivo in Australia and people still seem happy with their standard PVR's but again it's a different model but make no mistake, the model VM are using has been in place for years in the US too (albeit with more expensive ongoing subs) and those subscribers are taken into account with the 21% loss of their customer base. Cable customers there on a whole seem happy with what we know as V+ and I don't believe the subscrption amount matters much, it's the principal.

I completely get people paying extra for content but for the life of me I cannot see joe bloggs paying for something that (on the whole) V+ does anyway. Sky sussed that years ago and canned the Sky+ charge. I personally consider the HD charge quite a different scenario as that fee is for content, I get that.

This is one thing I will be delighted to be proven wrong on but those figures don't lie, never have I known a company to survive who loses 21% of their customers in just a year when that is on top of a massive drop the year before unless they systematically change their offer and pricing model.

Or win their court battles!

[Rattus]

Tivo's fundamental problem is they don't really do anything special.

Sky ripped of Tivo pretty quickly. And you can get umpteen freeview PVRs around that do what the Tivo does.

Non of this new web stuff is their patents. I even doubt if their search function patents are all that either. How they ever thought "being able to search by actor" was patentable i'll never know. It's hardly by the definition of something that is patentable a novel non obvious step forward in technology.

[dmeldrum]

Originally Posted by Cozzy

Do we even know exactly what the £3 sub is for and who is actually getting the wonga ?

i mean are VM taking the £3 and passing the whole sum to tivo or just part of it or have VM already paid up front and are clawing back that investment

It doesn't matter. VM buy services from many suppliers, bundle them together and then sell them to us. What VM charge us is not directly related to what it costs them, although clearly they don't sell at a loss.

I would expect that VM have a long term contract with TiVo, that is complicated and has many different charges and levels. I would expect TiVo to want some guaranteed minimum revenue, and VM to have hedged their risk on how many they will sell by agreeing a tiered charge to TiVo, the more boxes they sell, the more TiVo get.

The key point is that at present, VM correctly assume that there are enough people willing to pay a £3 per month premium to get the TiVo service. At the moment, VM only sell one package of TiVo, one 1TB TiVo box, only available if you take XL TV.

I'm sure VM will offer different packages and bundles, and eventually different boxes. But they are not doing that at the moment.

[mersey70]

Originally Posted by Rattus

Tivo's fundamental problem is they don't really do anything special.

Sky ripped of Tivo pretty quickly. And you can get umpteen freeview PVRs around that do what the Tivo does.

Non of this new web stuff is their patents. I even doubt if their search function patents are all that either. How they ever thought "being able to search by actor" was patentable i'll never know. It's hardly by the definition of something that is patentable a novel non obvious step forward in technology.

Well let's wait and see what happens with all these court cases.

I know V+ is clunky but it does what it says on the tin. And of course you can search on an Actors name now, so long as it appears in the synopsis. But are features like that going to sway people when they know they have to pay extra for it?, I genuinely doubt it but I will be thrilled to be proven wrong, but all those people who have canned it around the world who have had access to Tivo for years surely cannot be wrong, for whatever reason.

The only features that is of any interest to me is that you can record from the buffer. Would I pay extra for that, I am afraid not.

I might be interested if it had dynamic EPG but it hasn't, you have to pad just like you do with the good old legoland V+.

Like I say I completely get people paying for a film or getting the sports switched on for a month but I don't get paying for features that I genuinely don't believe most people have ever even craved.

I don't remember if I entered the free draw, if I did and was lucky enough to win I would certainly be happy to give it a go and in a year might change my mind, but knowing myself as I do I seriously doubt it.

And I would say I am a very Joe Bloggs sort of customer. I just get home, have dinner, get on the sofa and watch TV like most people. And hopefully not miss the end of any recordings.

I don't really need a box to tell me what I like, especially when it was me who told it what I like in the first place. That's what my brain is for and I will set my planner myself accordingly, even I am not that lazy and I doubt most are either.

[muppetman11]

http://www.fiercecable.com/story/emb...ter/2011-03-02

[LexDiamond]

Pardon my ignorance but how would VM migrate customers from M+ and L that do not have PVR subs to Tivo? I thought the DVR was a fundamental feature of Tivo? Or are they just going to have a skeleton Tivo service on STB's on lower tier packages with no recording capability?

[muppetman11]

Could TIVO's problems be other companies offerings are just as good

http://m.engadget.com/default/articl...sic&postPage=1

http://www.t3.com/news/sky-ipad-app-unveiled?=45807

[Digital Fanatic]

Originally Posted by muppetman11

Could TIVO's problems be other companies offerings are just as good

http://m.engadget.com/default/articl...sic&postPage=1

http://www.t3.com/news/sky-ipad-app-unveiled?=45807

TiVo and DirecTV are in the process of doing a integrated box, just like VM's but DirecTV is having problems with their own middleware software, so caused a delay in launching.

http://www.tivo.com/products/source/...ctv/index.html

http://support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/77

so it's not all doom and gloom as it may seem... TiVo has a lot going for it... they need to settle those lawsuits too!

[mersey70]

Originally Posted by muppetman11

Could TIVO's problems be other companies offerings are just as good

http://m.engadget.com/default/articl...sic&postPage=1

http://www.t3.com/news/sky-ipad-app-unveiled?=45807

I personally don't think it is a case that other providers boxes are just as good as Tivo. It's arguable in certain aspects they aren't.

I merely think their boxes do everything that most people want them to, they simply do not require the features Tivo offers and therefore dont want to pay for them either.

Think 50mb and 100mb broadband, the take up is currently limited because most people simply do not currently require such services, or are prepared to pay for them.

Just my opinion though.

[muppetman11]

Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic

TiVo and DirecTV are in the process of doing a integrated box, just like VM's but DirecTV is having problems with their own middleware software, so caused a delay in launching.

http://www.tivo.com/products/source/...ctv/index.html

http://support.directv.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/77

so it's not all doom and gloom as it may seem... TiVo has a lot going for it... they need to settle those lawsuits too!

What I'm meaning to say is TIVO are finding it difficult in the US due to the cable and satellite companies having products as good. Like Mersey70 says you wouldn't even know Comcast had a deal with TIVO on looking at there site.

[Digital Fanatic]

Originally Posted by mersey70

I personally don't think it is a case that other providers boxes are just as good as Tivo. It's arguable in certain aspects they aren't.

I merely think their boxes do everything that most people want them to, they simply do not require the features Tivo offers and therefore dont want to pay for them either.

Think 50mb and 100mb broadband, the take up is currently limited because most people simply do not currently require such services, or are prepared to pay for them.

Just my opinion though.

When TiVo becomes the standard box on VM, then they are on to a winner. TiVo is becoming VM's sole provider of EPG / DVR software.

This is where TiVo's future should be, let the platforms make the STB's then licence/manage the software.

[mersey70]

Originally Posted by muppetman11

What I'm meaning to say is TIVO are finding it difficult in the US due to the cable and satellite companies having products as good. Like Mersey70 says you wouldn't even know Comcast had a deal with TIVO on looking at there site.

Tivo are probably finding it difficult worldwide because around 10 years ago it was unique, it isn't anymore. Things could change f they win their court cases but they have been going on for donkeys years.

And any features that are unique are probably not needed by the average subscriber and certainly not at a price. The shocking churn figures would indicate this, to me anyway.

Smallworld (the little cable co in Scotland/Northern England) are launching a new 1 TB box soon that has many of Tivo's features including YouTube and also Flickr and Shoutcast with 45,000 radio stations, an excellent feature and with more to come. If they can do it imagine what the US cablecos can come up with, the US is their bread and butter but I think they are smart to move here given those numbers.

Their best hope is those court cases, I hope they win if they deserve to.

http://www.smallworldcable.com/Boxes...ld-HD--1TB-Box.

---------- Post added at 13:33 ---------- Previous post was at 13:32 ----------

Originally Posted by Digital Fanatic

When TiVo becomes the standard box on VM, then they are on to a winner. TiVo is becoming VM's sole provider of EPG / DVR software.

This is where TiVo's future should be, let the platforms make the STB's then licence/manage the software.

Let's hope Tivo are around then, that's my concern.

[Digital Fanatic]

Originally Posted by mersey70

Tivo are probably finding it difficult worldwide because around 10 years ago it was unique, it isn't anymore. Things could change f they win their court cases but they have been going on for donkeys years.

And any features that are unique are probably not needed by the average subscriber and certainly not at a price. The shocking churn figures would indicate this, to me anyway.

Smallworld (the little cable co in Scotland/Northern England) are launching a new 1 TB box soon that has many of Tivo's featuires including YouTube and also Flickr with more to come. If they can do it imagine what the US cablecos can come up with.

There best hope is those court cases, I hope they win if they deserve to.

http://www.smallworldcable.com/Boxes...ld-HD--1TB-Box.

---------- Post added at 13:33 ---------- Previous post was at 13:32 ----------



Let's hope Tivo are around then, that's my concern.

I's worth noting, that although they did lose a lot of subcribers, they also added 60,000 new subs in that quarter.

They do need a change of fortune in the US though. That churn rate isn't healthy!