VM finally post news on bridge mode - superhub

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by foddy

I think that's a little misleading. You're right that people might assume that their old router is useless, when it probably isn't, but if you don't clarify "use your own router", then people will assume that it can be used in the same way it always had. That's just as bad an assumption.

With VM, only one device can receive the external address allocated, and that device can't currently be your own router if you have a superhub. You can, however, daisy-chain the routers or possibly reduce the functionality of it to be a simple ethernet switch/wireless access point to complement the superhub.

As I said we need one of the recognised techy guys to start a thread about using your existing router.

[qasdfdsaq]

I think you're missing the point. People CANNOT continue to use their own router as it doesn't work properly (some may have limited success and others will have endless problems). The bit about the access point is not regardless, it's key to the whole principle. When it's an access point it is NOT a router. To say that you are using your own router without problems is misleading. Technically speaking, it wasn't even a router to begin with - the device you have plugged in is a residential NAT gateway but the terminlogy is so ingrained to most people it'd be futile trying to change it.

Since I don't have a Superhub I cannot give properly tested advice on how to set up their own router with it. I had originally been advising people it should work fine with the Superhub based on standard networking principles. However following evidence to the contrary from people who have actually tried my advice now is to not bother at all as it is difficult and doesn't always function as you'd expect. Starting a thread titled "using your own router" would also be misleading as the only way to use your own router is to use it in a partially-broken configuration or to not use it as a router.

I would appreciate if you'd stop confusing the issue by saying you are using your own router with no problems when you are not using your own router, period. I don't care what you want to call the embedded device you have plugged in but calling it a router is incorrect both in the technical and common language terms of the word. All you would need to do is qualify your statement as "I am using my own router as a wireless access point, not a router and have no problems."

[zekeisaszekedoes]

Originally Posted by Masque

Advice on how to use your own router would be much better than trying to put down someone is is saying try using your own router if the are problems

Problem with that is, when such advice is offered it usually comes with the caveat "and by the way, double NAT'ing often screws things up". The problem being that the Super Hub has a weak routing side and won't play well with other devices trying to do that job instead. In my experience it really doesn't like having say two or three other routers connected to it, even if said routers have DHCP disabled and are just acting as switches.

[pabscars]

qas, you really must let go of that bone , I think you have made your point dude.

I've been reading Masques comments regarding using his router, and new exactly where he was coming from, and I'm definitely not classed as a technical person,just basic knowledge gleaned from this very forum.

I also understand where your coming from but you have to remember, you have more knowledge on subject's like this than your average Jo Shmo.

The majority of people probably wont understand what is meant by a wireless access point because to them its just a router/modem thingy majig.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

I think you're missing the point. People CANNOT continue to use their own router as it doesn't work properly (some may have limited success and others will have endless problems). The bit about the access point is not regardless, it's key to the whole principle. When it's an access point it is NOT a router. To say that you are using your own router without problems is misleading. Technically speaking, it wasn't even a router to begin with - the device you have plugged in is a residential NAT gateway but the terminlogy is so ingrained to most people it'd be futile trying to change it.

Since I don't have a Superhub I cannot give properly tested advice on how to set up their own router with it. I had originally been advising people it should work fine with the Superhub based on standard networking principles. However following evidence to the contrary from people who have actually tried my advice now is to not bother at all as it is difficult and doesn't always function as you'd expect. Starting a thread titled "using your own router" would also be misleading as the only way to use your own router is to use it in a partially-broken configuration or to not use it as a router.

I would appreciate if you'd stop confusing the issue by saying you are using your own router with no problems when you are not using your own router, period. I don't care what you want to call the embedded device you have plugged in but calling it a router is incorrect both in the technical and common language terms of the word. All you would need to do is qualify your statement as "I am using my own router as a wireless access point, not a router and have no problems."

Try offering help rather than be a sad nagger, I really do not care one way or another what you think as my router is up and working and providing a connection in my property, it maybe only as an access point but it works and why should be people not be aware that they can do this with their existing kit.

So either wind your neck in or offer something constructive advice until the bridge mode firmware is released.

Another so called "professional" being unhelpful why does that not surprise me in the least.

[qasdfdsaq]

Well it looks like you're completely ignorant and are now trying to avoid the issue entirely, turning it into personal remarks with siilly emoticons. Your router is not up and working because it's not a router.

You're completely refusing to acknoledge you're giving misleading incorrect information out and instead calling me unhelpful by pointing out you're disappointing people. Please. Grow up.

All I asked it that you stop telling people you're using your own router when you're not, because it's misleading and I have seen people being misled by your comments. This was a perfectly reasonable request backed up by facts and instead you resort to sarcasm and insults.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

Well it looks like you're completely ignorant and are now trying to avoid the issue entirely, turning it into personal remarks with siilly emoticons. Your router is not up and working because it's not a router.

You're completely refusing to acknoledge you're giving misleading incorrect information out and instead calling me unhelpful by pointing out you're misleading people. Please. Grow up.

All I asked it that you stop telling people you're using your own router when you're not, because it's misleading and I have seen people being misled by your comments. This was a perfectly reasonable request backed up by facts and instead you resort to sarcasm and insults.

Offer help instead of trying to undermine others who are offering advice with regards using existing wireless kit.

[qasdfdsaq]

I offered help - to you - and you're in complete denial and insult me instead.



Admit you're wrong and misleading people or offer a logical explanation why you're not instead of posting silly cartoons and denying facts.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

I offered help - to you - and you're in complete denial and insult me instead.

Why not start a thread to help people use their own router with the Superhub rather than moaning about someone actually using their own router, I think many people would appreciate that more than this stance you have that it cannot be done even when other people have proved otherwise.

Does it really matter if it is working as a router or a an access point as long as it is actually working, the vast majority would say no.

[qasdfdsaq]

You're missing the point yet again, which seems to be something you're quite adept at. I have no problems with people using their own router. I have not moaned about people using their own router. You are not using your own router.

Double NAT through the Superhub does not work reliably for everyone and you still lose many of the benefits of using your own router, hence you're not really using your own router. You're not even getting this far, because you do not have a router connected to your Superhub. I'm not starting a thread about it with the Superhub as there's already plenty of threads by people who actually own a Superhub.

It matters a lot if it's working as a router or an access point because calling it a router when it is not a router is misleading and confusing people. Your comments in other threads have shown this to be clearly counterproductive as at one point you told someone to break their network by calling your non-router a router.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

You're missing the point yet again, which seems to be something you're quite adept at. I have no problems with people using their own router. I have not moaned about people using their own router. You are not using your own router.

Double NAT through the Superhub does not work reliably for everyone and you still lose many of the benefits of using your own router, hence you're not really using your own router. You're not even getting this far.

It matters a lot if it's working as a router or an access point because calling it a router when it is not a router is misleading and confusing people. Your comments in other threads have shown this to be clearly counterproductive as at one point you told someone to break their network by calling your non-router a router.

If it works then it is a workaround nothing more but it works for me and many others which is what many people want, so advise them how to rather than saying it is not the correct way to use your kit.

I expect you could offer such advice if you wanted to even though it is not a perfect solution in your eyes.

People are more interested in getting their connection now.

[qasdfdsaq]

You're missing the point yet again, which seems to be something you're quite adept at.

I have no problem with people using their own kit and advising them to do so. In doing so I advise that there are multiple ways of doing so, including your solution which is not using your router as a router.

My problem is you telling people you're using your own router (and to turn off DHCP to make it work 'fine') which is utterly incorrect. It'd be alot easier to give people the correct advice if you didn't start it off by giving them incorrect and misleading advice.

For example if this guy didn't already know better than you, taking your statement at face value would have resulted in him breaking his network:

Originally Posted by phoenix__

That doesn't sound like how I want to have things setup. My router has 2 interfaces, eth0 would connect to the superhub (nothing else connected to the superhub except the coax to VM). eth1 on my router connects to my switch and rest of the network. Turning off DHCP would break the local network.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

For example if this guy didn't already know better than you, taking your statement at face value would have resulted in him breaking his network:

He is using Linux so I would expect him to know how to set up his own network for which he would need bridge mode for due to what he wants from his network, also he had not upgraded as yet because it had to work the same as before, so remember to include all information.

I am talking about a standard network such as the average person had before they upgraded and took delivery of the Superhub and they want back, but you know that already but keep trying to find reasons why not.

[qasdfdsaq]

And yet, you still managed to confuse him by using the wrong term. Lets find the problems with this. First, you cannot assume all linux users are networking buffs. Plenty of them know less than your average Windows user. "The guy uses linux" is not an excuse for giving out wrong information, which clearly confused him and will no doubt mislead other readers of the thread.

Secondly, you make it sound like they will be able to get their old network configuration back. They will not. You might get close with double NAT but since you're not doing that you should not be telling people it "works fine" when it clearly doesn't for many.

No matter how many times I say this you seem to continue missing the point and changing the subject, I don't understand why you continue to bother avoiding such a simple point:

You are not using your own router with your Superhub. Telling people you are is misleading

You cannot make it work by turning off DHCP. Telling people they can is misleading

Please stop giving people confusing and misleading information. You are not using your own router, saying you are is wrong.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

Please stop giving people confusing and misleading information. You are not using your own router, saying you are is wrong.

Even if it working as an Access Point it is still working and providing a connection which is what people want so why not let people know that it works in that way, so nothing misleading with regards giving a connection.

As for the Linux OP he realised it was not for him and will probably wait for bridge mode and then come back to enquire again due to him wanting his own Linux based router to run his network on.