[Update] The Liberal-Conservative Coalition

[danielf]

In fairness, there is a fair amount of tribalism coming from the Tory camp as well. Just as you get Labour voters blaming Thatcher for all the world's ills, you get Tory voters bleating on about Labour in the 70s. For God's sake, that's nearly 40 years ago.

Personally, I blame the FPTP system and resulting seesaw politics for these entrenched attitudes. You don't get nearly as much of this in countries that are used to coalition governments, as you frequently get the equivalents of Labour/Tories ruling together. Nobody in his right mind would be bleating about what one particular party did wrong 35 years ago, as they probably did it in coalition with a party that is more palatable to the person in question.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by injuneer

At least we won't get a 3rd runway at Heathrow! (and probably no crossrail either)

The combined effects of the recession and Icelandic volcano has probably made that less likely anyway.

---------- Post added at 13:12 ---------- Previous post was at 13:11 ----------

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Since when did some Labour voters need an informed opinion? Why bother with that when one can have past prejudices and their own ideology? If the previous thread showed nothing it was the tenuous basis on which some voted Labour. It was either all about a Conservative PM from 20 years ago, about mistaken beliefs on Tory welfare policy, mistaken thoughts on Tory civil liberties policy, or just a sense of entitlement and the fear that the tax payer wouldn't keep suckling under anyone bar Labour.

I felt masochistic so read the diatribe from disgruntled voters here.

It's... tragic really how poorly informed people seem to be, not least because of their total indifference to the country's present economic issues. Me, me, me, nasty Tories cutting services, nasty Tories won't let me leech welfare, nasty Tories will raise our taxes and give it all to their rich friends, waaaaaaah, give me my unpaid for services and welfare.

The whole 'Big Society' is going to be a tough thing to accomplish when society has so many small people in it whose only ambition in life is to avoid work and whose main hobbies are watching daytime TV, being obnoxious and engaging in jealous reverse snobbery with those who work for a living and are financially better off.

What is with this whole reverse snobbery thing? Frankly it's getting up my nose. When did it become such a crime to better oneself, and why is it so accepted to look down on those who worked their way up to something better, and why is it considered fine to have no desire at all to better oneself or one's lot in life but instead to settle down to a life of living off the tax payer or working a job you hate, living in a life you hate, and whining jealously about those who have bettered themselves.

If it were just those who were born with a silver spoon in their arse that are getting complained about I'd be fine but it's everybody who isn't 'working class' who gets complained about. How dare people want a better life.

OK I feel better now.

Me too!

[Derek]

What happens at PMQ's now? Is it just a straight out slanging match between Con/Lib and Labour or does one of the 'diddy' parties like the SNP/PC get the job of the third largest party.

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Since when did some Labour voters need an informed opinion? Why bother with that when one can have past prejudices and their own ideology? If the previous thread showed nothing it was the tenuous basis on which some voted Labour. It was either all about a Conservative PM from 20 years ago, about mistaken beliefs on Tory welfare policy, mistaken thoughts on Tory civil liberties policy, or just a sense of entitlement and the fear that the tax payer wouldn't keep suckling under anyone bar Labour.

I felt masochistic so read the diatribe from disgruntled voters here.

It's... tragic really how poorly informed people seem to be, not least because of their total indifference to the country's present economic issues. Me, me, me, nasty Tories cutting services, nasty Tories won't let me leech welfare, nasty Tories will raise our taxes and give it all to their rich friends, waaaaaaah, give me my unpaid for services and welfare.

The whole 'Big Society' is going to be a tough thing to accomplish when society has so many small people in it whose only ambition in life is to avoid work and whose main hobbies are watching daytime TV, being obnoxious and engaging in jealous reverse snobbery with those who work for a living and are financially better off.

What is with this whole reverse snobbery thing? Frankly it's getting up my nose. When did it become such a crime to better oneself, and why is it so accepted to look down on those who worked their way up to something better, and why is it considered fine to have no desire at all to better oneself or one's lot in life but instead to settle down to a life of living off the tax payer or working a job you hate, living in a life you hate, and whining jealously about those who have bettered themselves.

If it were just those who were born with a silver spoon in their arse that are getting complained about I'd be fine but it's everybody who isn't 'working class' who gets complained about. How dare people want a better life.

OK I feel better now.

So, go on, tell us where any of those comments on the BBC website are any more informed that you are. Where have people on here been misinformed? Are you seriously trying to tell us the Cameron has told us the truth about what he has planned?

"Prime Ministers should be voted into 10 Downing Street by the people of Britain, not because their party has stitched up some deal"

And

"Those who can should and those who can't, we will always help. I want to make sure that my government always looks after the elderly, the frail, the poorest in our country."

Are words that will very soon come back and bite well and truly on the arse.

Originally Posted by Derek S

What happens at PMQ's now? Is it just a straight out slanging match between Con/Lib and Labour or does one of the 'diddy' parties like the SNP/PC get the job of the third largest party.

Labour attack the Government. Cameron argues back, Clegg periodically shouts "ooo oh no you didn't!!!" and "oh yeah! tell it Dave"

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

So, go on, tell us where any of those comments on the BBC website are any more informed that you are. Where have people on here been misinformed? Are you seriously trying to tell us the Cameron has told us the truth about what he has planned?

After that first paragraph I really don't need to dignify that with a response.

Election season is over, other people can read the comments and make up their own minds, as looking at the last sentence in the above paragraph you already have.

You'll have to put me in touch with wherever you bought your crystal ball given you appear utterly certain about the future.

---------- Post added at 13:43 ---------- Previous post was at 13:42 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

Labour attack the Government. Cameron argues back, Clegg periodically shouts "ooo oh no you didn't!!!" and "oh yeah! tell it Dave"

Clegg will 'do' PMQ's in Cameron's absence. Should be interesting

[Flyboy]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

After that first paragraph I really don't need to dignify that with a response.

Election season is over, other people can read the comments and make up their own minds, as looking at the last sentence in the above paragraph you already have.

You'll have to put me in touch with wherever you bought your crystal ball given you appear utterly certain about the future.

One doesn't need a crystal ball to work out that Cameron is not telling the truth. He is foremost a Tory and nothing they have ever said could be described as decent, truthful or honourable.

This springs to mind:

"Prime Ministers should be voted into 10 Downing Street by the people of Britain, not because their party has stitched up some deal"

Originally Posted by Flyboy

One doesn't need a crystal ball to work out that Cameron is not telling the truth. He is foremost a Tory and nothing they have ever said could be described as decent, truthful or honourable.

Your dogged tribalism is just cheapening the discussion. Even the Labour MPs who have been on TV this morning haven't thought it appropriate to make these sorts of slurs.

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Flyboy

One doesn't need a crystal ball to work out that Cameron is not telling the truth. He is foremost a Tory and nothing they have ever said could be described as decent, truthful or honourable.

This springs to mind:

"Prime Ministers should be voted into 10 Downing Street by the people of Britain, not because their party has stitched up some deal"

Nice try to spin. His party, with him at the helm, gained the largest amount of votes nationally and the largest amount of seats. The result being that a coalition with his party as the main group can be formed. Not quite the same as a transfer of power without even an internal party election mid way through parliament.

As said above your tribalism cheapens the discussion. Even I at my most tribal did not go as far as saying that nothing Labour ever did was decent, truthful or honourable, quite the opposite I have complimented them on some of their achievements. You are simply not open to any kind of discussion on this matter as you are so stubbornly anti-Tory.

It's amusing that in other threads you criticise people for being prejudiced, etc, yet make comments like the above. A comment from the BBC page comes to mind.

138. At 10:48pm on 11 May 2010, theysay wrote:
I certainly hope that the new government will try to reach out to as many people as possible, especially the large number of people who evidently still believe that there is no point in voting in UK elections. If I have one question for all those people on the so-called "left" it's "what about all the people who disagree with you? They never really seem to have an option other than "agree with us, or be shouted down/ignored" And that's "progressive politics" ?

These past few days have been largely statemanship and good politics at its' finest. Two not necessarily compatible parties coming together, accepting differences, compromising and hammering out a way forward despite, not because of, party views as opposed to Labour taking a similar view to the one in the quote above and essentially offering the Lib Dems their manifesto.

The same inflexibility you show with your unwavering belief that you're right was the same one Labour showed by all accounts, and is one of the reasons they are now the opposition despite the unwavering support of their Tory-hating base.

I'm sure I've asked this before but I'll ask again - what is the nature of your business? What do you do / produce? Is it something that will suffer under ConLib such as, I don't know, CCTV cameras or advanced biometrics, maybe DNA profiling equipment?

Cameron/Clegg news conference due at 2.15pm - will be live on BBC News:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/playlive/bbc_news24/

They're holding it in the rose garden of No.10, very American.

---------- Post added at 14:23 ---------- Previous post was at 14:11 ----------

It's on now.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet

Not quite the same as a transfer of power without even an internal party election mid way through parliament.

.. and following a clear pre-election promise to 'the people of Britain' by Blair that he'd serve a full third term as PM and stand down just prior to the following election....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...ourconference2

Originally Posted by Flyboy

One doesn't need a crystal ball to work out that Cameron is not telling the truth. He is foremost a Tory and nothing they have ever said could be described as decent, truthful or honourable.

You really are blinded by hatred and prejudice, aren't you - you appear to be stating that over ten and half million people in this country are indecent, liars, and dishonourable.

Shame on you.

Originally Posted by Flyboy

This springs to mind:

"Prime Ministers should be voted into 10 Downing Street by the people of Britain, not because their party has stitched up some deal"

Ahem - isn't that what the Labour Party were trying to do with the Lib Dems? Or is that "different"?

---------- Post added at 14:32 ---------- Previous post was at 14:30 ----------

Originally Posted by Flyboy

But if enough MPs are re-called, that will surely trigger a GE.

And the probability of this scenario is? Or are we just grasping at straws?

[punky]

Originally Posted by foreverwar

You really are blinded by hatred and prejudice, aren't you - you appear to be stating that over ten and half million people in this country are indecent, liars, and dishonourable.

Shame on you.


Ahem - isn't that what the Labour Party were trying to do with the Lib Dems? Or is that "different"?

Post of the month.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by punky

Post of the month.

Seconded....

Originally Posted by Flyboy

I wouldn't hold your breath. Can't see the Tories wanting to risk their majority in the House of Lords being whittled away by the plebs, can you?

Jeez, you're not a big fan of facts, are you?

House of Lords (since Labour "reformed" it to only leave 92 life peers (I think they should have got rid of them all)).

Peers
Labour 211
Tories 188
Lib Dems 72
UKIP 2
Crossbenchers 182
Lords Spiritual 25
Others 24
Total = 704


So out of a total of 704 Peers, the Conservatives have 188 - must be a new definition of "majority" I haven't come across before.