Scores die in Israeli air strikes

[chaos23]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Ok lets turn the question around.What is YOUR solution?Make it a viable one mind?

I have already posted it

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

What Hitler has to do with this I can't quite see.

Well you see, Ahmadinnerjacket said that Israel was created to compensate for the Shoah, so of course, to some people that must be a fact, you see, as they are unaware of the details of the League of Nations' British Mandate of Palestine, or would rather not admit that it was given prior to WW2.
Basically it's appauling historical knowledge mixed in with a conspiraphile mind.
Personally, I blame the schools for not teaching about it

Originally Posted by chaos23

a)Yes
b)Divide the country into equal amounts of land. Gaza and West Bank should not be separated. The Jews must stay now, but they must give up some land.

You mean like Gaza? Oh wait, they did that, and their civilians were deliberately targetted by Gazan missiles. Next suggestion?

Originally Posted by chaos

The Palestinians will have separate access to all amineties.

Good, why should the Israelis have to pay for their enemy's electricity gas and water. Oh wait, didn't you know it was provided freely by Israel?

Originally Posted by chaos

The US must stop bankrolling/interfering in Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iraq and the Gulf States. Then we will have peace in the middle east.

That'll be the US that gives millions to the Palestinians. Did you not know that either?


Also, what do you propose happens to Jordan and those who consider themselves Jordanian? Should they beforced to become Palestinians?

The stupidest thing is, if there is one country that should be able to identify with the Palestinians and their lack of a home, it's Israel. It just makes you think that if it were not for the outside forces with no desire for a peace in the region then they might have a chance.

Seems unlikely with the people who just want to destroy Israel, both the terrorist groups and the countries who supply them and manipulate the Palestinian people as their proxy.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Damien

The stupidest thing is, if there is one country that should be able to identify with the Palestinians and their lack of a home, it's Israel. It just makes you think that if it were not for the outside forces with no desire for a peace in the region then they might have a chance.

Seems unlikely with the people who just want to destroy Israel, both the terrorist groups and the countries who supply them and manipulate the Palestinian people as their proxy.

The majority of peace plans have been developed by the Israelis.
If you ever go to the museum by the Sea of Galilee there's plenty of displays on them, mostly Israel comes off worse (nothing new there, after all the UN wanted to give them the malaria ridden areas), but at the time they were put forward, the Arab nations wanted all the land (and from Jodan's and Egypt's examples, not for the Palestinians!).
Then there would be periods where the lack of action would boil over (as is currently happening), a hawkish leader would be elected and Israel would fight back for a change, people would die on both sides, and peace would be given a try although normally not lasting long (they do like firing those home made rockets at jewish homes) and the cycle repeats. When you're getting paid by foreign aid, living in $million dollar villas, filtering millions into Swiss bank accounts, and your people don't expect you to actually help them because you've convinced them it's someone else's fault, life must be good (reminds me of the Lib Dems!).
There have been several advances though, giving Sinai for peace has been pretty effective.
Returning Golan isn't likely to happen any time soon unless there's a major change in Syria, otherwise they'll just go back to taking pot shots at Israeli civilians on their way to work.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

No, instead they offered them no work, gave them no food or medical supplies, made them live in tents.
As for "flattening Gaza" when they withdrew, that's an excellent example of the ignorance of the situation.
The PA agreed to Israeli homes in Gaza being destroyed so that they would not have the issue of what to do with them and the riots they feared would ensue.



Whereas Hamas think it's ok to deliberately target civilians rather than catch them in a crossfire or because they're close to military targets (which funnily enough Israel doesn't tend to place near civilians, unlike Hamas)

Xaccers on thing you really need to start doing is stop thinking that people who offer a different view point to yours are ignorant of the situation. Granted you have a very good history of the region, but like I've said before, its not the things that happened 50 years ago that have caused people to be outraged at the Isreali oppression of Palestinians but rather whats been happening in the last 10 or so years.

Israel has flattened more homes in the last 10 years then Jordanians or Eygyptians have, they have slaughtered more children then Jordanians and Eygptians have, they have tortured more palestinians than the Jordanians or Egyptians have.

Additionally its all very well talking of Palestinian friends who experienced the Jordanian refugee camps, but I talk to plenty of Palestinians who have family in the area now. And to be honest they'd rather be in a Jordanian refugee camp then in their current situation.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

Xaccers on thing you really need to start doing is stop thinking that people who offer a different view point to yours are ignorant of the situation. Granted you have a very good history of the region, but like I've said before, its not the things that happened 50 years ago that have caused people to be outraged at the Isreali oppression of Palestinians but rather whats been happening in the last 10 or so years.

Israel has flattened more homes in the last 10 years then Jordanians or Eygyptians have, they have slaughtered more children then Jordanians and Eygptians have, they have tortured more palestinians than the Jordanians or Egyptians have.

Additionally its all very well talking of Palestinian friends who experienced the Jordanian refugee camps, but I talk to plenty of Palestinians who have family in the area now. And to be honest they'd rather be in a Jordanian refugee camp then in their current situation.

Israel pulled out of Gaza less than 10 years ago, you may have noticed that, and they were asked to bulldoze their settlements so that the PA wouldn't have to deal with it. What did they get for it? More attacks against their civilian populations. There are plenty of IDF bases around Gaza, but instead of targetting them (because it would guarentee a retaliation PDQ) Gazans target towns and villages.
As for buldozing houses in the territories, again, if you knew the reasons why, then you may not be trying to make the same false point (after all, whereas Jordan and Egypt kept them in squalid camps for 20 years, Israel has provided housing, medical care, gas, water and electricity).
It was an IDF soldier I know who, along with his colleagues were shocked to find just how badly the refugees were being treated by their "fellow" palestinians from Jordan.

As for civilian deaths, during the 2nd intifada, here's a list of 418 Israeli civilians who were murdered http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...econd_Intifada
That's properly murdered, not because they were attacking palestinians, not because they were close to IDF forces, or the Israeli police, but while going about their normal day to day business.
You don't have to believe the Israeli's defence minister's statement that they are sorry for the civilian deaths in Gaza caused by Hamas firing rockets from civilian areas, you don't have to believe that Israel spends millions a year improving smart weapons to reduce so called collatoral damage because they're having to attack targets in civilian areas, you don't even have to believe that it's Hamas' fault for placing it's people in harms way by launching attacks from residential areas, but to suggest that the Israelis are deliberately trying to attack civilians and compare them with the attrocities that the palestinians have committed, and to go as far as trying to justify those attrocities, you might as well say the 7/7 bombers were justified.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

I do wish you'd learn how to quote, really, it isn't difficult.

Anyway, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_H...igious_beliefs



Again you're showing your ignorance of history Chaos, exactly how old are you?
You talk of elections, but ignore that Abbas was elected with 62% of the vote.
You also ignore that he, a democratically elected president, dissolved the Unity Government (probably because you had no idea about it, go on, prove me wrong).
So, unless you're saying that the palestinians should only have democracy if it suits Hamas, either you value their democratic process, or you do not. You can't pick and choose, much as you're trying to.

Nice post

The PA agreed to Israeli homes in Gaza being destroyed so that they would not have the issue of what to do with them and the riots they feared would ensue.

Think you might find it's more likely that they wanted to use the land to build 'a lot' of homes rather than use all that land for relatively few homes, what with Gaza being one of the most densely populated areas on the planet

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Funny how arab Israelis (those who for whatever reason didn't listen to the anti-jewish broadcasts) support Israel and the last thing they want is it handed over to the PA or Hamas. Of course, that doesn't gel with the "Jews are the bad guys" image, so generally gets ignored.

Mmm not such a good post. Why on earth would you want to live in Hamas run Gaza, where there's no food or medicine, no fuel and no electricity although soon they might not have a choice, considering 60% of them fear mass expulsion. No far better for them to live as second class citizens in Israel for as long as they can

I've answered this post here, as requested

[chaos23]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Israel pulled out of Gaza less than 10 years ago, you may have noticed that, and they were asked to bulldoze their settlements so that the PA wouldn't have to deal with it. What did they get for it? More attacks against their civilian populations. There are plenty of IDF bases around Gaza, but instead of targetting them (because it would guarentee a retaliation PDQ) Gazans target towns and villages.
As for buldozing houses in the territories, again, if you knew the reasons why, then you may not be trying to make the same false point (after all, whereas Jordan and Egypt kept them in squalid camps for 20 years, Israel has provided housing, medical care, gas, water and electricity).
It was an IDF soldier I know who, along with his colleagues were shocked to find just how badly the refugees were being treated by their "fellow" palestinians from Jordan.

As for civilian deaths, during the 2nd intifada, here's a list of 418 Israeli civilians who were murdered http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...econd_Intifada
That's properly murdered, not because they were attacking palestinians, not because they were close to IDF forces, or the Israeli police, but while going about their normal day to day business.
You don't have to believe the Israeli's defence minister's statement that they are sorry for the civilian deaths in Gaza caused by Hamas firing rockets from civilian areas, you don't have to believe that Israel spends millions a year improving smart weapons to reduce so called collatoral damage because they're having to attack targets in civilian areas, you don't even have to believe that it's Hamas' fault for placing it's people in harms way by launching attacks from residential areas, but to suggest that the Israelis are deliberately trying to attack civilians and compare them with the attrocities that the palestinians have committed, and to go as far as trying to justify those attrocities, you might as well say the 7/7 bombers were justified.

You are just a Zionist Propagandist

Originally Posted by chaos23

You are just a Zionist Propagandist

Good comeback Loads of people have made great points you seem to be ignoring. Besides, why is the world always so black and white to you? you never seem to appreciate the complexities of issues like this

Originally Posted by Damien

Good comeback Loads of people have made great points you seem to be ignoring. Besides, why is the world always so black and white to you? you never seem to appreciate the complexities of issues like this

Twas a standard chaos23 comeback. He demands everyone accept his point until the weight of reasoned argument against him gets too much, then he resorts to one-line insults. Consider it game over.

[chaos23]

Originally Posted by Chris

Twas a standard chaos23 comeback. He demands everyone accept his point until the weight of reasoned argument against him gets too much, then he resorts to one-line insults. Consider it game over.

You would like to think that the game is over.

Frankly, I couldn't care less whether you change your mind or not.

[Maribel]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Returning Golan isn't likely to happen any time soon unless there's a major change in Syria, otherwise they'll just go back to taking pot shots at Israeli civilians on their way to work.

It should be kept under Israeli occupation for ever, the Golan heights wine is too good to be wasted on tee-total Syrians.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Israel pulled out of Gaza less than 10 years ago, you may have noticed that, and they were asked to bulldoze their settlements so that the PA wouldn't have to deal with it. What did they get for it? More attacks against their civilian populations. There are plenty of IDF bases around Gaza, but instead of targetting them (because it would guarentee a retaliation PDQ) Gazans target towns and villages.
As for buldozing houses in the territories, again, if you knew the reasons why, then you may not be trying to make the same false point (after all, whereas Jordan and Egypt kept them in squalid camps for 20 years, Israel has provided housing, medical care, gas, water and electricity).
It was an IDF soldier I know who, along with his colleagues were shocked to find just how badly the refugees were being treated by their "fellow" palestinians from Jordan.

As for civilian deaths, during the 2nd intifada, here's a list of 418 Israeli civilians who were murdered http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...econd_Intifada
That's properly murdered, not because they were attacking palestinians, not because they were close to IDF forces, or the Israeli police, but while going about their normal day to day business.
You don't have to believe the Israeli's defence minister's statement that they are sorry for the civilian deaths in Gaza caused by Hamas firing rockets from civilian areas, you don't have to believe that Israel spends millions a year improving smart weapons to reduce so called collatoral damage because they're having to attack targets in civilian areas, you don't even have to believe that it's Hamas' fault for placing it's people in harms way by launching attacks from residential areas, but to suggest that the Israelis are deliberately trying to attack civilians and compare them with the attrocities that the palestinians have committed, and to go as far as trying to justify those attrocities, you might as well say the 7/7 bombers were justified.

Are you aiming that at me. I suggest you retract that statement because I find it totally offensive for you to insinuate that someone who supports palestinians, and their cause, somehow supports the 7/7 bombings.


This is the kind of sentiment that brands muslims as terrorist sympathisers and I would have expected better from you.

[chaos23]

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo

Are you aiming that at me. I suggest you retract that statement because I find it totally offensive for you to insinuate that someone who supports palestinians, and their cause, somehow supports the 7/7 bombings.


This is the kind of sentiment that brands muslims as terrorist sympathisers and I would have expected better from you.

Would you expect anything else from a Zionist?