how about we start a campaign to let VM know that we DONT LIKE SHAPING

[Mr Angry]

FIRST DRAFT:

Hold fire until I'm happy this is watertight.



Dear sir/madam,

Re: Customer Acc No. - Broadband Traffic Management - DPA Subject Access Request.

I am a Virgin Media customer currently using your XXMB Broadband service. It would appear that on XX/XX/07 between the hours of XX & XX that my broadband connection appears to have been “traffic managed� in line with your Terms and Conditions of service as amended May 2007.

I very much doubt that I exceeded the AUP limitations within any 24 hour period covering this incident and I attach hereto copies of comparable speedtests run from individual independent sources and a breakdown of my actual usage as per your recommended client “DU Meter� which further substantiate my assertion.

Obviously I appreciate that there is room for a margin of error from online tests / monitors such as these so, in the interests of accuracy and factual documentation, I formally request under the terms of the Data Protection Act that you supply to me all information you hold pertaining to the aforementioned account - specifically with regard to my broadband usage.

It is my understanding that my account with you, which is run on a credit basis, is currently in good standing. With that in mind, and not wishing to unduly increase your payment processing overheads, I hereby grant you my full permission to debit the account in the sum of £10.00 – that being the maximum statutory fee payable in respect of a Subject Access Request.

In the event that you are unwilling to debit my account and, for whatever reason, require payment by any other method then please advise me by return.

Take note that compliance with the Data Protection Act requires you to furnish me, the data subject, with the information I have requested within 40 days of my having made this request. Failure on your part to do so will result in my reporting the matter to the offices of the Information Commissioner.

For the avoidance of doubt, and in keeping with the terms of the Data Protection Act, please take note that all and any information which you provide to me by return must be presented in a clear, legible manner that I am able to understand.

Further I would ask that you take note that I am requesting this information be supplied to me under the exemptions afforded by clauses 35 (1) & (2) thereunder as I reserve my right to seek legal advice / take legal proceedings to seek redress in the event that you are in breach of our contract or that you have acted outside of the terms of your published Traffic Management policy.


Yours sincerely

[Magilla]

Originally Posted by skirkby

i still cannot see any evidence as to wheree you are restricted in how much you can download, the only evidence you have provided is restricting the SPEED at which you can download which is not what I asked for evidence for

You now cannot download as much as before within the same time period, thus the service is now restricted.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by skirkby

if you're referring to me im simply providing evidence against a campaign so although posts may appear to be off topic they are not

thank you

I'm referring to everyone who has wandered off topic.

[hammered]

Originally Posted by skirkby

you havent answered my question, i think english may be a problem here as well so lets try french...

veuillez fournir l'évidence où la quantité que vous pouvez télécharger est restreinte

Posting comments like that are just enciting people to flame and are not helping at all... Mind you if you could read English as well as your can write French you would see from these posts that the shaping seems to be affecting more than your 5%, and seeing as VM's own statement that they will traffic shape people who go over a set limit, your argument is blown out of the water... This 5% you are on about was changed, changed to a set amount of data transmitted/received. Now this limit doesn't seem to be being applied to most people and the findings, so far (on this website anyway) are that as soon as the clock hits 4pm the majority of people are finding their connections shaped. Regardless of whether they have hit their pre-determined limits or not! Now, back to you to come out and give us your response to this...

Originally Posted by skirkby

is it, please provide evidence that shows an unlimited download connection is being restricted in the amount you can download

The evidence is people having their " unlimited " service " limited "
With all due respect, how can I make it any clearer?

[Merlin99uk]

True Zing, but if we at least get them to realise that the Ads are wrong, and we also lodge complaints to, for example Ofcom, we might slowly bring about a change in the policies and implementation in that VM are bringing in.

This is a start that will hopefully make VM realise that their customers are revolting (no, I know that is tempting, but don't do it!).

Too many accept changes that are imposed on them after signing a contract that didn't have these conditions before.

We have to get their attention somehow, this is just one way. Other posters have put up links for other options, we just have to use them!

BTW, my speeds are still around 1Mb/s after 3 in the afternoon. Even though they're fine in the mornings!

[dav]

Some sort of campaign would only be effective (if at all) if it was started as an immediate reaction to the change in service. The longer it is left the more VM can point to the traffic shaping and say that it has become the de facto standard. Rather than flooding VM with DPA requests for bandwidth useage (although the draft Mr A proposed is very good in itself and I'm sure many less skillful wordsmiths will use it), I think a more general approach is necessary. Don't ask me what just yet as the cogs are still turning, but for those who do feel they have a grievance then it needs to be on a level that non-techies can get behind and present as a case to VM to limit traffic shaping to a more sensible degree than the draconian measures we are currently looking at.

[Horace]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

FIRST DRAFT:

Hold fire until I'm happy this is watertight.



Dear sir/madam,

Re: Customer Acc No. - Broadband Traffic Management - DPA Subject Access Request.

I am a Virgin Media customer currently using your XXMB Broadband service. It would appear that on XX/XX/07 between the hours of XX & XX that my broadband connection appears to have been “traffic managed” in line with your Terms and Conditions of service as amended May 2007.

I very much doubt that I exceeded the AUP limitations within any 24 hour period covering this incident and I attach hereto copies of comparable speedtests run from individual independent sources and a breakdown of my actual usage as per your recommended client “DU Meter” which further substantiate my assertion.

Obviously I appreciate that there is room for a margin of error from online tests / monitors such as these so, in the interests of accuracy and factual documentation, I formally request under the terms of the Data Protection Act that you supply to me all information you hold pertaining to the aforementioned account - specifically with regard to my broadband usage.

It is my understanding that my account with you, which is run on a credit basis, is currently in good standing. With that in mind, and not wishing to unduly increase your payment processing overheads, I hereby grant you my full permission to debit the account in the sum of £10.00 – that being the maximum statutory fee payable in respect of a Subject Access Request.

In the event that you are unwilling to debit my account and, for whatever reason, require payment by any other method then please advise me by return.

Take note that compliance with the Data Protection Act requires you to furnish me, the data subject, with the information I have requested within 40 days of my having made this request. Failure on your part to do so will result in my reporting the matter to the offices of the Information Commissioner.

For the avoidance of doubt, and in keeping with the terms of the Data Protection Act, please take note that all and any information which you provide to me by return must be presented in a clear, legible manner that I am able to understand.

Further I would ask that you take note that I am requesting this information be supplied to me under the exemptions afforded by clauses 35 (1) & (2) thereunder as I reserve my right to seek legal advice / take legal proceedings to seek redress in the event that you are in breach of our contract or that you have acted outside of the terms of your published Traffic Management policy.


Yours sincerely

IANAL but I'm pretty sure bandwidth usage doesn't fall under personal data as specified by the DPA.

Originally Posted by DPA

2. In this Act "sensitive personal data" means personal data consisting of information as to-

(a) the racial or ethnic origin of the data subject,
(b) his political opinions,
(c) his religious beliefs or other beliefs of a similar nature,
(d) whether he is a member of a trade union (within the meaning of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992),
(e) his physical or mental health or condition,
(f) his sexual life,
(g) the commission or alleged commission by him of any offence, or
(h) any proceedings for any offence committed or alleged to have been committed by him, the disposal of such proceedings or the sentence of any court in such proceedings.

Good luck with the legal fees when you try to fight this in court. Also, be careful what allegations you make against VM.

[Mr Angry]

Your personal bandwidth usage (that which they will supposedly base any decision, automated or otherwise, in relation to Traffic Management of your personal connection) is personal data which they, in their capacity as a data controller process. As such you are within your rights to request a copy of it.

As for "fighting this in court" some people just can't see the woods for the trees.

Allegations? Where? I think you're confusing "allegations" with "legitimate questions".

[Ignatius]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

... long letter ...

Perhaps amend to:

I hereby grant you my full permission to debit the account with a fee up to but not exceeding £10.00 – that being the maximum statutory fee payable in respect of a Subject Access Request.

I appreciate many companies automatically take the maximum they're allowed to, but no point in asking them to take the max.

[slef2003]

Originally Posted by mark1979

damn right!!!!

totaly agree with that.

i look at it like this, when i get my 20mb upgrade i will get stuff quicker fair enough but i will also get twice as much!!!! if i pay for something im gonna use it to the limits!!

If you aren't on a water meter is it OK to leave the taps on all the time just because it is the same price?

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by Ignatius

Perhaps amend to:

I hereby grant you my full permission to debit the account with a fee up to but not exceeding £10.00 – that being the maximum statutory fee payable in respect of a Subject Access Request.

I appreciate many companies automatically take the maximum they're allowed to, but no point in asking them to take the max.

A very valid point Ignatius however I should like to point out several things to make this absolutely clear to those others who appear a bit "foggy" on the matter.

We are dealing with hypothetical monies here (ie. your credited account). In the event that VM comply with your SAR and it appears that you have not exceeded their limits then you would be well within your rights to ask for a discount in view of the poor performance levels of services paid for (let's say £10.00 - as a goodwill gesture - Hey presto! your imaginary £10.00 fee is no more).

In the event that they refuse to debit your account in respect of the statutory fee then I would suggest sending them a cheque. On the assumption (as they themselves assert) that it costs them £5.00 to process a non DD payment then, again, Hey Presto! they are providing you with an "up to" (see what I did there?) £10.00 service for a mere £5.00.

VM seem determined to be the masters of their own destruction. In a scenario whereby hundreds or thousands of disgruntled customers seek to assert their rights under the DPA then VM are required, by law, to respond to those requests within a given timeframe.

Notwithstanding the additional staff and resources they would have to undertake to handle such numbers one must also remember that they are liable for a hefty fine in respect of each incidence where they fail to meet their statutory obligations.

The bottom line is "who polices the police"? In this case I think it best that customers directly affected by the imposition of these new regulations endeavour to ensure that the limitations are being imposed fairly and justly on only the 5% who "abuse" (see: have a fundamentally different interpretation of the word "unlimited" to that which is now mooted by VM) the network.

The DPA is one way to establish this.

The bean counters at VM shouldn't take too long to catch on that their overheads and resource demands will increase beyond any anticipated savings to be made in the event that customers assert these rights.

Second Draft (getting there).

Dear sir/madam,

Re: Customer Acc No. XXXX - Broadband Traffic Management - DPA Subject Access Request.

I am a Virgin Media customer currently using your XXMB Broadband service. It would appear that on XX/XX/07 between the hours of XX & XX that my broadband connection seems to have been “traffic managed” in line with your Terms and Conditions of service as amended May 2007.

Based on the information and diagnostics currently available to me I very much doubt that I exceeded the AUP limitations within any 24 hour period covering this incident. I attach hereto copies of comparable speedtests run from individual independent sources and a breakdown of my actual usage, as per your recommended client “DU Meter”, which further substantiate my assertion.

Obviously I appreciate that there is room for a margin of error from online tests / monitors such as these so, in the interests of accuracy and factual documentation, I would ask that you consider this correspondence to be a formal request under the terms of the Data Protection Act that you supply to me all information you hold pertaining to the aforementioned account - specifically with regard to and including my broadband usage since the introduction of your aforementioned Traffic Management systems.

It is my understanding that my account with you, which is run on a credit basis, is currently in good standing. With that in mind, and not wishing to unduly increase your payment processing overheads, I hereby grant you my full permission to debit the account in the sum of £10.00 – that being the maximum statutory fee payable in respect of a Subject Access Request.

In the event that you are unwilling to debit my account and, for whatever reason, require payment by any other method then please advise me by return.

Take note that your legal obligations under the Data Protection Act require you to furnish me, the data subject, with the information I have requested within 40 days of my having made this request and not 40 days from receipt of payment of the statutory fee. Failure on your part to do so will result in my reporting the matter to the offices of the Information Commissioner.

For the avoidance of doubt, and in keeping with your legal responsibilities under the terms of the Data Protection Act, please take note that all and any information which you provide to me by return in respect of this request must be presented in a clear, legible manner that I am able to understand (Part II .7. 1.c subsections i & ii of the Act refer).

Further I would ask that you take note that I am requesting that this information be supplied to me under the exemptions afforded by clauses 35 (1) & (2) thereunder as I reserve my right to seek legal advice / take legal proceedings to seek redress in the event that it is established that you have either;

1)Acted outside of the terms of your published Traffic Management policy.

0r

2) Willingly employed technology which is designed to make significant changes to the services so the services I am entitled to receive in return for the charges I pay are significantly altered or reduced - thereby compromising my rights and entitlements under our contract (your Terms & Conditions J, 3.b refer) .


Yours sincerely

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Your personal bandwidth usage (that which they will supposedly base any decision, automated or otherwise, in relation to Traffic Management of your personal connection) is personal data which they, in their capacity as a data controller process. As such you are within your rights to request a copy of it.

What if they reply saying they don't store the information in a manner that allows them to look at details for specific dates? Are they under any obligation to store this data (given that the decision to shape is made on the data for a particular day)?

(Not being funny, just wondering)

[Mr Angry]

Originally Posted by danielf

What if they reply saying they don't store the information in a manner that allows them to look at details for specific dates? Are they under any obligation to store this data (given that the decision to shape is made on the data for a particular day)?

Ah, Danielsan.

One would then have to wonder if they understand their obligations under the DPA.

[danielf]

Originally Posted by Mr Angry

Ah, Danielsan.

One would then have to wonder if they understand their obligations under the DPA.

Originally Posted by danielf

Are they under any obligation to store this data (given that the decision to shape is made on the data for a particular day)?

I'll take that as a yes then