MERGED - Prisoner Abuse

well that certainly showed me

i'll just get my coat....

walks with hand down outside into the cold rain, looks back waiting for someone to stop him. Watchs people cheering his absence

.......nuts

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Graham

"committee" was a group picked by the leadership which sounds much more like a "kangaroo court".

That sounds like a serious accusation, I do hope you have evidence showing that the committee was corrupt and unjust in its finding of him as guilty.
I also suggest that you give such evidence to him as well so that he can clear his name.

As for resigning, he could have stood down as an mp in disgust if he really felt that strongly.

Talking of him, did he actually sue the papers over the document found suggesting he'd received large sums of money from Iraq?

Xaccers you dont seem to understand its perfectly acceptable to accuse the government of lying and being corrupt without facts. Anyone else though and its a different matter

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Damien

Xaccers you dont seem to understand its perfectly acceptable to accuse the government of lying and being corrupt without facts. Anyone else though and its a different matter

Excuse me!!

If you were going to accuse me of corruption you'd better have some pretty hard facts behind you or you'd find yourself in a libel court s***hot!!

The government are people too and deserve protection against untrue allegations as well.

[punky]

I'm not libelling anyone, or trying to. I'm merely pointing out that a person with extremist views, is more likely to take extreme methods to satistify their aims. In some respects I did disagree with the war, but i'd never gone to the lengths that some people did/would given the chance.

I only mentioned those names because I would of thought after I said "extreme people would do extreme things", you would of said: "like who?", so I said like/in the vein of those people mentioned. Wether they would or not is another matter. Given how mainstream they are, there are bound to be even more extreme groups in the background that would love to pull a stunt like this.

Edit: BTW I loved the way you prohibited me from any Sun quotes, but you were able to quote that most impartial to people: Galloway himself.

Edit: Anyway, as I said Galloway incited the Iraqis and others to rise up against the coalition, and you produced that quote, didnt you just answer your question for me?

[punky]

Originally Posted by Russ D

Excuse me!!

If you were going to accuse me of corruption you'd better have some pretty hard facts behind you or you'd find yourself in a libel court s***hot!!

The government are people too and deserve protection against untrue allegations as well.

Russ, what he said is kind of true. They'd probably give a press conference and deny it and that would be that. Look at all the accusations the UK and US governments have had over years, not just the last year. I'm not sure the government as an entity could sue anyone. Blair could as a citizen though I suppose, but generally they don't bother.

Like Damien said, you, and every other citizen is a different matter.

I was sort of joking, although It does have truth in it. I wasnt saying it was right i was just be cynical.

The sad truth is the government always get attacked as does blair (being publicly called a liar with a huge campaign isnt nice) but the public never sides with them. They join in, its comes with the job.

Look at the spin problem, the government got countless attacks but the media do it all the time usually worse but what happens to them?

Gallow sued the sun about what they said but does blair ever sue the mirror or the mail? He cannot!

Look what happened when the blairs didnt want there children affected by the press (e.g. photographs published) they tried to stop it but suddenly the british 'moral' public attacked him and the majority where against them.

Originally Posted by Xaccers

That sounds like a serious accusation,

No, that sounds like an *opinion*.

Had I said "He was stitched up by a kangaroo court picked by the leadership to ensure he didn't get a fair hearing", *that* would be a serious accusation.

As for resigning, he could have stood down as an mp in disgust if he really felt that strongly.

And thus give the Labour leadership a victory on a platter. Hmm...

"I went to bed and had another long, dark night of the soul. For 20 minutes I questioned why I was staying in politics and leaving myself so wide open.

"I thought I'm almost 50 now, I can make a good living with my pen. I've got children and grandchildren. I could be doing other things instead of having to fight every hour of every day.

"And then I started to get calls of support from friends and realised if I gave in it would be a victory for the worst **** elements on the international scene and in the British Press. I'm coming out fighting again because I won't let the *******s win."

Talking of him, did he actually sue the papers over the document found suggesting he'd received large sums of money from Iraq?

"Galloway says the allegation is based on the same documents he has already proved in court to be false, earning him £250,00 0 libel damages from an American magazine, and over which he is suing the Daily Telegraph."

Both quotes from: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews...name_page.html

Originally Posted by Damien

Xaccers you dont seem to understand its perfectly acceptable to accuse the government of lying and being corrupt without facts.

If I *could* find any facts on this, I would be happy to post them. Unfortunately there *are* no facts available, and, believe me, I've been looking for them.

That's why I stated it as an opinion.

Originally Posted by punky

I'm not libelling anyone, or trying to. I'm merely pointing out that a person with extremist views, is more likely to take extreme methods to satistify their aims.

And if you sling enough mud, some of it will stick.

I only mentioned those names because I would of thought after I said "extreme people would do extreme things", you would of said: "like who?", so I said like/in the vein of those people mentioned. Wether they would or not is another matter. Given how mainstream they are, there are bound to be even more extreme groups in the background that would love to pull a stunt like this.

I don't doubt there *are* extreme people who would do extreme things, but just because you don't agree with the people you named doesn't make it a fact that they would.

Edit: BTW I loved the way you prohibited me from any Sun quotes,

Err, that was a *suggestion*, not a "prohibition".

Edit: Anyway, as I said Galloway incited the Iraqis and others to rise up against the coalition, and you produced that quote, didnt you just answer your question for me?

No, what you said was (I quote)

Originally Posted by Punky

Galloway has publically and repeatedly stated he wanted the Coalition forces to be slaughtered by the Iraqis. He wanted Saddam to be victorious and to remain in power, to keep doing what he did.

This is *not* the same as what you have just said above.

again

Incog.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Graham

And thus give the Labour leadership a victory on a platter. Hmm...

"I went to bed and had another long, dark night of the soul. For 20 minutes I questioned why I was staying in politics and leaving myself so wide open.

"I thought I'm almost 50 now, I can make a good living with my pen. I've got children and grandchildren. I could be doing other things instead of having to fight every hour of every day.

"And then I started to get calls of support from friends and realised if I gave in it would be a victory for the worst **** elements on the international scene and in the British Press. I'm coming out fighting again because I won't let the *******s win."

Ah, so Cook gave the Labour leadership a victory on a platter then did he?

Originally Posted by Xaccers

Ah, so Cook gave the Labour leadership a victory on a platter then did he?

Which part of "Robin Cook resigned from the Cabinet, *NOT* the Labour Party" are you having trouble understanding

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Graham

Which part of "Robin Cook resigned from the Cabinet, *NOT* the Labour Party" are you having trouble understanding

Robin Cook resigned from his position in protest over going to war to oust Saddam.
Galloway didn't feel strongly enough to make similar moves, instead he was booted out for inciting arab forces to fight ours and calling for our forces to disobey their orders. Added to that his praise and support for saddam, makes in my opinion, and many others (don't know about yours, perhaps you think he's a lovely person who is talking sense and who you'd defend to the hilt, perhaps you think he's a **** bag) him a rather unsavoury charactor.
Someone of a similar, or even more extreme anti-coalition view would have a reason to stage these photographs if they are fakes (which most of the experts appear to be leaning towards but I wouln't want to say for definite until the investigation is completed).

[Xaccers]

If these photos are proven to be fakes, what punishment (if any) will Piers Morgan and the Mirror face?