MERGED - Prisoner Abuse

[Defiant]

More here,

However the BBC's defence correspondent Paul Adams says sources close to The Queen's Lancashire Regiment believe many aspects of the photographs are suspicious.

He says they believe the pictures may not have even been taken in Iraq.

• They believe the rifle is an SA80 mk 1 - which was not issued to troops in Iraq.

• They say soldiers in Iraq wore berets or hard hats - and not floppy hats as in the photos.

They also believe the wrong type of Bedford truck is shown in the background - a type never deployed in Iraq.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3677311.stm

[Xaccers]

The plot thickens.
The People claims that they are close to arresting 6 soldiers, but that could be as false as the pics

[Defiant]

Yep don't think the Army or MOD would say there going to arrest anyone until they have actually made the arrests

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by Defiant

Yep don't think the Army or MOD would say there going to arrest anyone until they have actually made the arrests

My thoughts exactly

it is odd how quick the mirror got the pics after the us ones

[kronas]

for all you skeptics:

Troops serving in southern Iraq have been swapping the pictures among themselves, said the unnamed soldiers from the Queenââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s Lancashire Regiment who sparked furore over the weekend by releasing photos apparently showing UK personnel abusing an Iraqi prisoner.

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2870910

now i do believe that we should take these accusations seriously instead of trying to to contradict any reports coming through, yes the source is not the best but you have to wonder why the mirror would concoct such a hideous library of images, ofcourse im not saying that these pictures are true but you have to look at what humans are capable of if you were able to 'get your ownback' on people then you would ?

instead of saying 'our army would not do this' or being patriotic in that sense, its just as bad as the americans are with there military...

[Julian]

The story does appear to be evolving by the hour.

I would like to see some hard evidence from another source than the mirror ( a self confessed "anti Iraq war" paper) though.

I will reserve judgment at this point....

[kronas]

Originally Posted by Julian

I will reserve judgment at this point....

thats why i abstained from giving my view.......but i still remain neutral.....its just some people get all 'patriotic at times, makes me sick in these situations because allegations like these need to be addressed.............

I think its a lot better to have innocent until proven guilty instead.

We are not trying to contradict reports but some people cast doubts and we have too wonder why...The gun, the fact that a prisoner is wearing a shirt with the iraqi flag on? and for someone who is being abused its very very clean.

I am not sure ever way if its true, but i dont know why in this country we are so quick to try and make out that the world is bad. Why is it that we all ways complain? People on average are good no matter what you might say. There is a difference between being patriotic and not always belive the country is heading for the gutter

You know,IF I was going to kick crap out of a prisoner of war I certainly wouldn't allow anyone to take pictures of me doing so.

Also look at the photos, there is a real lack of any signs of torture or beatings. Look at the shirt considering the dirt around him to was spotlessly white it must have put on at that moment.

Also while the us versions showed clear abuse these do not. ALso the picture quality is excellent. Unlike the grain type quality of the usa versions

- It was the wrong type of gun, where did they get it

- Wrong truck, that one was never deployed to iraq where did that come from

- no sling on gun

- wrong hats

- photos have a professional quality, if you where dumb enough to let someone watch you beat the crap outta someone why use v good cameras compared to the us versions which are poor quality.

- Prisoners would not were shirts with the iraqi flag on it, and why is the shirt so clean

[punky]

I saw a bit on TV about it earlier, and it suprised me how little I realised about the pics (susceptible maybe?). I mean, the TV report pointed out how there was no dirt anywhere. No sweat. No body marks at all. Not one bruise, laceration, nothing. How I never saw that myself looking at the photos before, I don't know, but after it was pointed it out, I can't believe I ever thought the pictures might be real.

Incidently, I don't think the Mirror faked the pictures, although saying that, if an anti-war group faked them (which I think they did), but i'm suprised the group didn't give them to the Guardian, to give the pictures a bit more credibility. Or maybe they did, and turned them down, not believing they were true?

[andygrif]

I was listening to 5Live this evening and heard a some expert saying that the pictures were genuine, but they were six months old. The Lancashire regiment (i think thats what they were called) are not even stationed in Iraq right now, and that a disciplinary procedure had already begun before this emerged. Not sure true it is, but more food for thought.

[Xaccers]

Originally Posted by kronas

yes the source is not the best but you have to wonder why the mirror would concoct such a hideous library of images

The Mirror accepted and published these images because they are despirate to prove they were right with their anti war stance.
They'd much rather have kept Saddam in power, terrorising the Iraqi people.
They know that if these images turn out to be fake they can claim they believed them to be real, and who's going to hold them accountable?
The best we can hope for in that situation is for the other papers to find evidence the Mirror suspected they were fakes but published anyway to damage the work we are doing to rebuild Iraq and relations in the middle east, then for all Mirror readers to stop buying in protest.

[kronas]

Originally Posted by Xaccers

The Mirror accepted and published these images because they are despirate to prove they were right with their anti war stance.
They'd much rather have kept Saddam in power, terrorising the Iraqi people.
They know that if these images turn out to be fake they can claim they believed them to be real, and who's going to hold them accountable?
The best we can hope for in that situation is for the other papers to find evidence the Mirror suspected they were fakes but published anyway to damage the work we are doing to rebuild Iraq and relations in the middle east, then for all Mirror readers to stop buying in protest.

im not defending any stance on this issue as yet, what i was trying to point out was that people are being too dismissive about things and the pictures not being believable because 'this and that is wrong' then again it could be a huge cover up by a tabloid..............