Brexit (Old)

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Mick

Because the exit you are talking about, is not an exit at all, staying in the Customs Union and or Single Market is remaining in the bloc - no thank you, this goes against leaving the EU!

And the minority argument from you, has been done to death, it's not a minority, people have a chance to vote in elections if they get off their arses, if they choose not to then that is their problem.

We still have a party with minority support leading us out of the EU. Not enough people voted for the Tories to give them a working majority.

So please explain who this majority are? There are still a significant number of remainer MPs on both sides of the house including the Prime Minister. Why did they not lose their seats if people are so happy with Brexit?

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

Roll on March the 29th, I will be drinking a lod of Vodka to celebrate leaving the EU.

What with the BS that the Frecnh will blockage Calais.

OOH I'm so scared, we don't buy any French products so go on then, I'd like to see the other EU countries allowing their products not being shipped to the UK.

Don't quit know what you expect to happen on the 29th March ! Except life may become gradually more difficult and exspensive and Champers might be hard to import

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Don't quit know what you expect to happen on the 29th March ! Except life may become gradually more difficult and exspensive and Champers might be hard to import

I have a boat tell me what you need and i'll make it happen ,taking things off French beaches is all part of the Dunkirk spirit

[Sephiroth]

Mick has a point. If people couldn’t be arsed to vote in the Referendum then bleating about the result and calling for another one is out of order.

I have a completely open mind to various directions. If we stay, as you know, I want to see us using picador sticks whenever they get silly.

My view hasn’t changed that the currently constituted EU is an awful hegemonist institution and I will be glad to leave.

That said, Cameron’s reforms, such as they were, would have been an improvement on status quo ante.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Mick has a point. If people couldn’t be arsed to vote in the Referendum then bleating about the result and calling for another one is out of order.

I have a completely open mind to various directions. If we stay, as you know, I want to see us using picador sticks whenever they get silly.

My view hasn’t changed that the currently constituted EU is an awful hegemonist institution and I will be glad to leave.

That said, Cameron’s reforms, such as they were, would have been an improvement on status quo ante.

All the new voters since 2016 could not vote as they were not old enough. Yet they will have to live longest with the decision, so have every right to complain.

[Hom3r]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Don't quit know what you expect to happen on the 29th March ! Except life may become gradually more difficult and exspensive and Champers might be hard to import

Originally Posted by papa smurf

I have a boat tell me what you need and i'll make it happen ,taking things off French beaches is all part of the Dunkirk spirit

Well I'm not a wine or beer drinker, and the spirit I'll be into will be one of my 14 bottles of small batch Vodka.

Originally Posted by Angua

All the new voters since 2016 could not vote as they were not old enough. Yet they will have to live longest with the decision, so have every right to complain.

No they have not.

Hey guess what - I have no plans on dying yet and I consider myself still young, thank you very much.

How many avenues are you going to pluck weak arguments from ?

I was too young to vote in the 80's and part of the 90's, can we redo these elections in these years going off your bizarre logic ?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Angua

All the new voters since 2016 could not vote as they were not old enough. Yet they will have to live longest with the decision, so have every right to complain.

We can go round in circles on this. Same (silly) argument applies to General Election results, if you are to be internally consistent.

Those who were too young to vote are entitled to an opinion - albeit that opinion doesn't have much foundation in worldly experience and is thus somewhat suspect.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

We can go round in circles on this. Same (silly) argument applies to General Election results, if you are to be internally consistent.

Those who were too young to vote are entitled to an opinion - albeit that opinion doesn't have much foundation in worldly experience and is thus somewhat suspect.

Doesn't stop anyone from having an opinion or a grievance. Just seems like the staunch Leavers want to silence everyone who disagrees with them.

Well hey, the opposition are not going to oblige.

Just as the likes of UKIP would not have shut up had remain won on a similar margin.

We still have relatively free speech in this country, where citizens are allowed to question government decisions. Dissent is not going to go away.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Angua

Doesn't stop anyone from having an opinion or a grievance. Just seems like the staunch Leavers want to silence everyone who disagrees with them.

Well hey, the opposition are not going to oblige.

Just as the likes of UKIP would not have shut up had remain won on a similar margin.

We still have relatively free speech in this country, where citizens are allowed to question government decisions. Dissent is not going to go away.

That's what I said; they are entitled to their opinion.

The staunch Leavers are acting quite reasonably by saying that the Referendum result, LEAVE, must be respected.

You ignored my point about a General Election the same logic is applied by a dissenting group.

You have disrespectfully compared the young who can now vote with "the likes of UKIP". That shows the one sided nature of your thing and is not internally consistent with your argument.

Originally Posted by Angua

Doesn't stop anyone from having an opinion or a grievance. Just seems like the staunch Leavers want to silence everyone who disagrees with them.

Well hey, the opposition are not going to oblige.

Just as the likes of UKIP would not have shut up had remain won on a similar margin.

We still have relatively free speech in this country, where citizens are allowed to question government decisions. Dissent is not going to go away.

This has nothing to do with silencing anybody - the people had a say, en masse, in 2016 and again in 2017, they decided they want to leave the EU.

Dissent is cured by means of a Democracy, where people can choose freely to vote on issues at hand, we do not live in a dictatorship, but you want us to live in one, where democratic results are overturned by repetitive referendums because a minority disagree with the decision of the first.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

No they have not.

Hey guess what - I have no plans on dying yet and I consider myself still young, thank you very much.

How many avenues are you going to pluck weak arguments from ?

I was too young to vote in the 80's and part of the 90's, can we redo these elections in these years going off your bizarre logic?

A referendum on EU membership is a bit different from an election as an election it changes things more profoundly.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

A referendum on EU membership is a bit different from an election as an election it changes things more profoundly.

That's twisted logic. People go to the ballot box - whether for Referendum or Election. Nation is split to whatever close degree on approval of the outcome. Whingers start pushing for a People's Vote to settle the hope of a rethink.

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

That's twisted logic. People go to the ballot box - whether for Referendum or Election. Nation is split to whatever close degree on approval of the outcome. Whingers start pushing for a People's Vote to settle the hope of a rethink.

In a general election we know in five years time (or whenever otherwise agreed) we get to vote for a different party.

With a general election there is one part of the country where none of the main UK parties stand for election.

Whilst 2 others have special local only parties. All of these mean consensus is unlikely, a majority of the electorate choosing one party to govern even more remote, so we end up with minority governments dictating because they hit the magic number of seats.

The EU ref was a three way option - In - out - or not vote at all and a decision with consequences far reaching beyond the next 5 years. So people will continue to discuss, worry and complain.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Angua

In a general election we know in five years time (or whenever otherwise agreed) we get to vote for a different party.

With a general election there is one part of the country where none of the main UK parties stand for election.

Whilst 2 others have special local only parties. All of these mean consensus is unlikely, a majority of the electorate choosing one party to govern even more remote, so we end up with minority governments dictating because they hit the magic number of seats.

The EU ref was a three way option - In - out - or not vote at all and a decision with consequences far reaching beyond the next 5 years. So people will continue to discuss, worry and complain.

Something like 85% of the UK population lives in England. So sizeable opportunity for whinging if a hefty proportion don't like an election result. But I accept that demanding an re-run doesn't happen.

The trouble with the whinging among the Remainers is that they want it to be a four-way option, adding a "People's Vote" because they didn't like the original result.