Why do ntl charge??

[Neil]

I was just having a browse of Telewest's XBOX site, & came across the following.....

Originally Posted by Telewest Blueyonder

Blueyonder Dual Connecter

If you want to use your Xbox and PC at the same time, or if you don't want the hassle of having to disconnect one device everytime you want to use the other, then this option is for you.

With the blueyonder Dual Connector you will receive a switch and two cables that will allow you to connect your PC and Xbox at the same time. There is a small up-front charge along with a small monthly fee*, for which you will receive everything you need to connect your PC and Xbox at the same time.

*The monthly fee is waived for blueyonder 1 Mb and 2 Mb customers

So how can TW get away with not charging, & yet ntl still do on all their packages?

http://www.blueyonder.co.uk/blueyond...connector_xbox

Yet another reason that ntl are behind TW when it comes to good ideas.

[Edit]-Not only that but TW don't have any of this "It's against our AUP to connect your XBOX or your PS2 to our network unless you pay for a 2nd I.P address at £5.00 per month (soon to be £2.00 PM)"

TW actively encourage you & show you how to use a direct connection to your CM-well done Telewest.

[MovedGoalPosts]

Sorry to take issue here but I don't think TW is quite as good here as your post, and quote, implies:
There is an initial setup fee to provide the bit of kit, payable by all users.

Anyone using the slower speed BB connections will pay a monthly fee too.

It's only the high speed services, where presumably there is a higher margin, that the monthly, but not install fee, is waived.

However yes, as ever, ntl work out an expensive option when comparing those higher speed options.

[Matuka]

Do any other ISP's charge for consol usage?
I have never heard of any.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by MovedGoalPosts

Sorry to take issue here

Apology accepted!

Originally Posted by MovedGoalPosts

but I don't think TW is quite as good here as your post, and quote, implies:
There is an initial setup fee to provide the bit of kit, payable by all users.

No different to ntl there.

Originally Posted by MovedGoalPosts

Anyone using the slower speed BB connections will pay a monthly fee too.

All ntl customers have to pay for ntl's 2nd I.P 'Console & BB 'Service'

Originally Posted by MovedGoalPosts

It's only the high speed services, where presumably there is a higher margin, that the monthly, but not install fee, is waived.

That's the point I was making-I'll bet a pound to a pennt that there are not many 150k users on ntl, & that most are on 600k & 1MB, yet those 600k & 1MB customers have to (according to ntl anyway) pay extra per month for the privelidge.

Originally Posted by MovedGoalPosts

However yes, as ever, ntl work out an expensive option when comparing those higher speed options.

I know.

[Zorilla]

Originally Posted by Neil

"It's against our AUP to connect your XBOX or your PS2 to our network unless you pay for a 2nd I.P address at £5.00 per month (soon to be £2.00 PM)"

I wasn't aware of this - when did this suddenly appear?

I'm sure we all had discussions that seemed to revolve around the idea that NTL wouldn't support technical issues with your xbox connection unless you paid the £5.00 per month. Now NTL seem to be saying that everyone MUST pay this fee regardless.

Why should Xbox users have to pay if we are using Routers etc (Are they just trying to charge extra for on-line gaming?)

Originally Posted by Zorilla

I wasn't aware of this - when did this suddenly appear?

I'm sure we all had discussions that seemed to revolve around the idea that NTL wouldn't support technical issues with your xbox connection unless you paid the £5.00 per month. Now NTL seem to be saying that everyone MUST pay this fee regardless.

Why should Xbox users have to pay if we are using Routers etc (Are they just trying to charge extra for on-line gaming?)

This has always been the case with ntl. You can get round it easily enough if you know how, but don't be under any illusion that ntl considers you to be breaching their AUP in the process.

[Chris W]

Originally Posted by Neil

[Edit]-Not only that but TW don't have any of this "It's against our AUP to connect your XBOX or your PS2 to our network unless you pay for a 2nd I.P address at £5.00 per month (soon to be £2.00 PM)"

this is true... but you will find that tech support (or everyone i know at least) will turn a blind eye to you doing this. This has been written into the usage policy since at least december 2003 but is not rigidly enforced. After all, if you are using a router, then how are ntl going to know that you are using an xbox or ps2 unless you tell them??

and Neil... the wording you are looking for is:

You may only connect XBox gaming consoles to the NTL network using a designated Xbox compatible broadband access product.

Users may only connect PlayStation 2 gaming consoles to the ntl network using a designated PlayStation 2 compatible broadband access product.

taken from section 21 here

[Dooby]

but if your XBox is connected to a router then strictly speaking you arent connecting the XBox to the NTL network, you are connecting the router to the NTL network...

[MovedGoalPosts]

Originally Posted by Dooby

but if your XBox is connected to a router then strictly speaking you arent connecting the XBox to the NTL network, you are connecting the router to the NTL network...

Oooh that's a grey area of leagalese, which I doubt would hold much sway if tested in court. Ntl also say you can only connect up to 3 computers. Now if you arent doing that via a router or switch how are you doing it when you only have the one bb connection?

[Dooby]

i was just thinking that you are also excluded from 'connecting any unaproved devices to the NTL network' or something like that, meaning you can only use their STBs and Cable Modems... but you dont have to have your PC certified cause it isnt connected directly...I was just extended the logic...dangerous thing to do I know...

[Chris W]

Originally Posted by MovedGoalPosts

Oooh that's a grey area of leagalese, which I doubt would hold much sway if tested in court. Ntl also say you can only connect up to 3 computers. Now if you arent doing that via a router or switch how are you doing it when you only have the one bb connection?

don't understand your point there is nothing stopping you from connecting a router to ntl.... and this is excluded from the three devices... I would look this up in the t &cs but i have done it once today and can't be bothered again! The only thing with connecting routers, is that ntl won't provide support to you if you use a home network.

MB

[Tezcatlipoca]

Originally Posted by monkeybreath

don't understand your point there is nothing stopping you from connecting a router to ntl.... and this is excluded from the three devices... I would look this up in the t &cs but i have done it once today and can't be bothered again! The only thing with connecting routers, is that ntl won't provide support to you if you use a home network.

MB

Here it is -

User Policy & use of routers:

http://www.ntlhome.com/legals/userpolicy.html

20. Use of the Network (Broadband services)

You are permitted to use routers, and the connection of a dedicated hardware router or firewall shall not be considered a PC for the purposes of this section.

As for the use of consoles...

I take...

"You may only connect XBox gaming consoles to the NTL network using a designated Xbox compatible broadband access product."

...to mean that my XBox connection method (I use a Linksys WRT54G) is OK wrt the AUP, because the router in question has been designated as XBox compatible by Micro$oft (the AUP doesn't say it has to be "designated" by NTL! ).

But, like you say, NTL won't know that you have an XBox connected unless you tell them, & they don't seem to force people to use the Console service.