SKY vs Cable
 

How long will SKY last for????

SKY currently seems to be the top of the range company with the most customers. Now that SKY has purchased Easynet, BT may well stop helping SKY recieve customers and since that SKY and BT are seperate companies, rentals and subcriptions are not combined like Cable providers and means that SKY and BT users will end up paying an extra £20 than they would with Cable companies. In fact, Wight Cable has a no line rental telephone package available with the 3-2-1 telephone plan. SKY customers also have to maintain their SKY boxes themselves and pay for any repairs, unlike Telewest and NTL who still own the box and will repair the box for you at no extra cost unless the damage is your fault.

SKY customers will eventually get fed up and move over to Cable or analogue terrestrial which is not what the goverment wants!

Freeview and top-up-tv has poor reception and customers have to buy the box and and new aerials.

Cable will probably remain the UK's favourite and when NTL and Telewest finally become one, the cable company may want to expand it's network to streets which are not currently covered.

Clacton-on-sea and Harwich on the south east Anglia coast in Essex is where Rediffusion Cable Vision was based and there is no cable operator their at all! The nearest is NTL (East coast cable Ltd) which covers Colchester, since these are large towns, why is that there is no cable service available their. BT have only recently launched it's broadband service in that area. I reckon it would cost around £200 to £500 Million to cable these towns. Maybe Wight Cable might think of something! Or a new cable company which will work with BT (Cable company providing: Cable TV,interactive services and BT providing: Telephone and Broadband services.)

Most of the rediffusion equipment and cabling still survives in a terrible state, in the small part of Clacton called Jaywick, Jaywick is independent from Essex County Council and local council which is why the equipment has never been ripped out as they don't want to spend money. The cabinets on the streets are vandalised with cables hanging out, some housing still has the indoor switches ect....

SKY will be another failure in a few years and hope they go into recievership.

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

i dont think cable tv would be a lot of use with out sky. or should i say, it would lose a lot of subscribers without sky being there

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

Before 1998, SKY was hardly heard of and Cable companies had a very large number of customers subscribing to just analogue TV with each customer spending up to £20 a month on services. However, telephone services from cable operators has always varied, at the moment, Telewest's phone service has many subscribers compared to 2002.

And why should cable disappear if SKY did?

The cable companies are not reliant on SKY or BT, I think BT and SKY are more reliant on the cable companies! BT has recently used NTL to supply online voice services for it's customers and SKY carries all the Flextech channels which is owned by Telewest.

In addition, Cable companies allow SKY premium channels to be carried through to their customers at an addition cost to the customer. Cable companies could drop these at anytime, I don't think that many customers do use the sky premium channels as they are too expensive. In 1998, Telewest reviewed SKY news, according to Telewest, viewing levels were considerably low compared to BBC News 24.

If SKY stopped carrying Flextech channels, then no one would subscribe as most other channels are just a load of crap!

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

I don't think rupert murdoch, my boss would let it go bust.:D


NTL arent cabling new sites in existing areas and are pulling out of some existing areas citing low or no revenue return. I've worked for both NTL, BT and now Sky. Sky with it infrastructure make even BT look poorly organised and NTL, well a complete shower of .....:Yikes:

The BT and Sky deal was never going to last and there have always been spats between them.

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

In my experience all you have to say is "Oh I can't afford to pay for that repair, I guess I'll just have to cancel." then they will send someone out for free.

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

don't always work.;)

However with the churn figures at the moment it might

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

Where do you get your maths from? By my addition a Family Pack TV service, a standard phone line and a 2mb broadband line costs pretty much the same with Sky, BT and an ISP as it does with NTL. Also with Sky's proposal to buy Easynet (and the mumblings about Homechoice) Sky is in the position that NTL is currently in, able to offer discounted triple-play services.


You don't explain why they will get fed up and move from a system that offers hundreds of channels to a system that offers five. If they did get fed up enough to move to terrestrial it would be more likekly they would go an buy a 30 quid FreeView box than go back to analaog. And that IS what the government wants.

FreeView has good reception for the vast majority of the country - and by the time of the digital switchover it will be as good as the analog coverage.

Please define "favourite". I assume you mean most subscribed, in which case it can't "remain favourite" as it is currently the least subscribed of the three options to receive digital TV.

You're right, the NewCo might being rolling out more cabled areas, but I seriously doubt it. Laying cables is limited these days as it costs more to do than they get back - the reason? Becuase people prefer FreeView or Sky, not cable.

Ah....and the end of the world is nigh too.

Sky have been around for 16 years. There are 25 million homes in the UK, nearly 8 million of which have Sky. I doubt they're going anywhere anytime soon.

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

I *think* that ntl's 'Triple Play' only gives 512k BB though.....

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

NTL may not have any plans as yet, but could decide something in the next 10 to 15 years. They might just shock SKY by cabling streets just out of the blue unexpectedly as they will try any trick in the book!

You are right, NTL and Telewest are decommisioning a few sites which have never been used or low income sites as they have to pay business rates to local councils for each property they run cables on which isn't easy for cable companies or BT infact!

Vodafone has recently de-installed a few of it's mobile masts and relocated some whilst others have been withdrawn completely.

BT Payphones has been removing it's public payphones over the last 4 years.

NWP purchased 1000 interphone public payphones, only 750 kiosks were replaced with new ones.

All of the above problems are being caused by the high tax rates and rents!

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

BT Line rental: £11.50
SKY Subscription(Lowest pack): £19.50
BT Broadband 512K: £15.00
Total: £46.00

NTL Family pack and telephone line rental: £19.50
NTL Broadband 512K: £14.99
Total: £35.49

Telewest's version of family pack known as supreme is £15.50 per month which is £4 cheaper than SKY and NTL. NTL will probably lower this to £15.50 next year. And Wight Cable's is also £15

BT Anonymous caller rejection: £4 per month
NTL Anonymous Caller rejection: £1.75 per month
Telewest Anonymous caller Reject: £1.50
Wight Cable Anonymous caller reject: £1.00

New BT line installation: £75 to £99.99
NTL: £50 to £74.99
Telewest: £10 to £50 (usually £25)
Wight Cable: £50

BT Together option 3: £29.99 (Including line rental)
Telewest Talk unlimited: £26.50 (Including line rental)
BT Line rental: £11.50
Telewest line rental: £10.50 together with free weekend calls.
Wight Cable standard: No line rental.

SKY Customer services 0870: 8p per minute
Telewest Customer service: Free
NTL Customer service: Free
Wight Cable: Free
BT Customer service: Free (Although a very long queue)

Other advantages:

Telewest and NTL accept debit card payments, SKY and BT only accept major credit cards.

Teleport: A bright new service coming very soon, hopefully, this would wipe the smile of SKY's face!

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

Are you sure about that?

I thought the family pack from NTL was £19.50, with the £10.50 phone rental on top - even if you don't want it.

EDIT: If fact if you look here http://www.home.ntl.com/icat/television it says the family pack is £19.50, but hidden down at the bottom is... *Price excludes £10.50 phone line rental which you must take with your TV Pack

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

I'm afraid a lot of your information is either out of date or incorrect:

BT and ntl both charge £10.50 for line rental. BT charge an extra £1.00 per month is you don't pay via direct debit. ntl INSIST on you paying via direct debit according to their current info on their website.

Sky's lowest pack is £15 per month, not £19.50. The Family Pack on Sky is now £21 per month, against ntl's £19.50. FreeView, of course, remains free.

I can't understand why anyone would take broadband from BT, as they're rather expensive. There are great deals out there for 2mb internet from far better providers. You can expect to pay around the same for a 2mb connection as you would from ntl, with the same restrictions.

NTL's Family Pack DOES NOT include telephone line rental at £19.50 per month. Line rental is an additional £10.50 per month as described per month.

"A bright new service" - do you work in marketing by any chance? Teleport is already operational, as is ntl's VOD service. As discussed previously, Sky is currently in the process of buying a telephone and internet provider. They are also looking at buying the rather sophisticated VOD system by acquiring HomeChoice in London. I don't know about "wiping the smile" from Sky's face - if their purchases come off they will have a rather neat system in place that will set them up for the next 15 years (according to industry analisyts).

Don't forget that also BT will be launching their own combined Freeview and VOD box early next year. Contrary to what you are telling us, it looks likely to be highly competetive couple of years for the cable ops.

I don't see the point of discussing the minutae of every company's single line items. But whilst you've got your calculator out perhaps you should note that BT's Caller Display is free compared to ntl's £1.75. BT's full itemised billing is free compared to ntl's £1.00 per month.

Most people already have a BT line, so reconnection is free. Even so, the installation cost from BT is actually £74.99 is there is no existing line in the house. This is the same as ntl.

The Talk Together Option 3 from BT is £25.50 per month including line rental, not 29.99. NTL's is 50p cheaper, but doesn't include SMS messages like BT.

Ah now here you actually make a good point.

I think it's disgraceful that Sky operates an 0870 number for customer services. I would expect this to change once they roll-out their telephone providers, but I won't hold my breath.

You point out that BT has long call queues...well so does ntl. In fact I spent over two hours on the phone being passed along various ntl call queues on Monday.

Conversely I spent two minutes on hold to BT, used their call back service and was called back within 2 minutes. I have noticed that ntl seem to have dropped their callback service. To be honest I am not surprised - they promise a callback within an hour - mine arrived FOUR hours later.

Listen...the bottom line is that each and every company is going to be better at some things than others - ntl's forte is broadband - on the whole (until something goes wrong) their internet connection is pretty good. But their TV system is rubbish and the phone lines are (for an average user) more expensive now than BT's equivalent pay-as-you-go type of package (which the majority of us are on).

I'd say that cable has (and always did have) oodles more potential than BT and Sky and they had a head start of a couple of decades to really take advantage of it. But they didn't. They don't use the network to it full capability, they don't invest in systems or people. They wait to see what others are doing before half-heartedly tagging along (and putting other prices up to pay for it) rather than leading the field.

This is why 30% of the population get digital TV from Sky, 20% of the population from FreeView and 10% from cable companies. Cable's been around since the year dot. FreeView has been around for a couple of years - puts it into perspective doesn't it?

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

I enquired about getting a new line into a property on someone elses behalf and the sales rep told me it's £99.99! !!

BT's customer service and sales are a disgrace. When you are transfered, you are placed in a queue for about 25 minutes and then when you do become connected to an advisor, they pass you onto different departments which includes more queueing!!! And once the call was disconnected half way through queueing. The call back service which holds you in the queue is a complete waste of time, I recieved a call back 1 day later. Telewest answer calls straight away. Although, if you don't dial 150 or 151 from a telewest line you have to dial an 0845-142 number

BT's caller display is only free when you register with BT privacy, You can get all BT calling features for about £4.50 I think. Telewests is about £3.50.

Anonymous caller rejection is £4 per month on BT! £4 per month just to have a recorded message saying 'please call again without witholding your number'.

Oh and BT don't charge for their itemised bills because they never send them out on time and make loads of mistakes on them!

I also noticed that it's mostly customers in particular areas that are affected by NTL customer service. Ever tried contacting them by email?

I must agree with you that not all companies are perfect!

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

Sounds exactly like NTL. Well apart from the calling you back bit.
__________________

Yep it is, but BT Privacy is also free.

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

Oh and did I mention, BT Yahoo customer service and the £1 per minute techinical support is in india.

Was based in Northern Ireland, but moved the call centre to india. The remaining employees were transfered to another job meaning that theres more staff to answer your call in Northern Ireland.

NTL stopped it's indian call centres due to the poor customer satisfaction. The call back service was in operation because the indian workers couldn't cope with the large number of calls and didn't have enough lines to transfer calls between the UK and India. The call back service was also introduced because call queueing reached 50 minutes of approximate waiting time.

Telewest doesn't have any indian call centres.

SKY sometimes uses a call centre in india for technical support when the UK offices are closed.

The indian centres are just terrible and companies shouldn't use them!

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

LOL.

From the BT Yahoo site - not sure the link will work...
http://btybb.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/bt..._created=&p_sp

Customer Support:
0845 600 7030

Open 24 hours a day, calls are charged at local rate.


Any chance of you doing some research before you rant?

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

Well it's 75 quid now

Which was exactly the situation that I described above, only it was ntl and it was TWO HOURS to finally get through to the correct person. One call, five people, two hours.

That's free too, and IMHO a good service (it's the same as registering with the TPS, which I am anyway).

Why do you keep grinding this axe? It's one of the things where BT is more expensive. As I said before, there will always be some things where BT is cheaper and some things where cable are cheaper. That's the way it is.

I don't really see the point in trying to have sensible discussion with you when you come out with thing like that.

Yes I have, or rather via their website. I waited for one month for a reply. I followed up, stamped my feet a bit and another three weeks after that I got a reply that had nothing to do with the original enquiry.

No you didn't. No it isn't. And just becuase a call centre is in India doesn't make it bad. NTL still have theirs and are poor. Powergen's take the biscuit as being the most blood-pressure raising and Dell's is rather good - all in my personal experience of course.

Amen to that. I don't wish to sound rude about the O/P but this entire thread is based on outdated, misinformed or just plain made-up information.

I know dealings with customer service people from all companies is going to vary from person to person and each individual has different levels of standards that they expect. Personally mine are very high - I don't suffer fools glady, and when I enounter them on the end of a phone line I tend to lose the will to live. I'm not saying that Sky is better than NTL, I'm not saying BT is better than Wight Cable or whoever.

I am saying that the standards offered by ntl are consistently below par, and have been for the nine years that I've been with them. They have improved in some areas, they have got worse in others - but they consistently disapoint.

Now it's all very well having the debate on good and bad levels of service, but using a tiny element of the pricing policies of each is fairly pointless. Comparing any company with Wight Cable is fairly pointless for all but the 57,000 houses there (24.9 million less than the rest of the UK) and predicting the end of the largest digital TV platform with no insight or basis whatsoever is also rather silly IMHO.

In fact just doing the quick sums here now...Sky's churn is about 10% right now. They're very unhappy about that and are about to do some drastic things to stop it. But assume they didn't. Assume also that their 10% churn carries on for the next 10 years, and also assume that in that 10 years not one single new subscriber comes online. At the end of 10 years with 10% churn and no new subs....Sky would still have more customers than ntl do now. Makes you think doesn't it?

Nighty night. :)

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

I called them the other day and it was india!

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

If NTL/Telewest are so much better why are you using BT Yahoo?

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

I don't, I was ringing on behalf of my friend who has a hearing problem and has difficulty using the phone.

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

Fair enough.

Hope you took note of the number above so the next time you call for a friend you won't run them up a large bill.

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

So you're saying that you've based your entire thread on a single conversation with BT Yahoo?

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

If it's 'hidden', how did you manage to find it? :scratch:

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

hidden
A adjective
2 hidden, obscure
difficult to find; "hidden valleys"; "a hidden cave"; "an obscure retreat"

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

Well now I can base something I've said on a single call to BT too:

Today I ordered up my BT line for new-house. I was actually routed to Customer Servicesas all their Sales department lines were too busy (I wonder why?).

I spoke to an extremely friendly lady called Anne, she went through everything, didn't try to oversell anything, didn't push me into silly calling plans that I don't need, and did offer me all the free stuff available such as 1571, free caller display, friends and familiy (apparently now you can choose between giving BT your ten numbers for a 10% discount, plus 'best friend' 20% off, or leave it to them to figure out the 5 most dialled numbers that month and apply your 10% to them instead, plus you still nominate a best friend for 20% discount...clever stuff) and we went though all the things like being ex-directory and witholding caller ID.

The FREE call took about 20 minutes including all the line and credit checking and at the end of it she summarised abolsutely everything that was going to happen, all the features and the monthly charge and gave me my new number.

I'm not saying it's going to be like this in future, just how it has been so far - and so far I am extremely impressed. BT 1 - NTL 0.

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

I sure will!

As I use Telewest's Blueyonder for internet, the technical support line can now be called for free if you have a telewest line. You dial 151 and select the broadband internet fault option which directs you to the technical support line.

BT still makes money out of the 0845 and 0870 numbers.

One problem with BT and NTL is that their customer services close at 8pm and don't open on Sunday except for some NTL areas. Telewest customer service available between 8am and 12 midnight 7 days a week with 24 hour fault management and technical support. This why customer service queueing has always been low with these opening times at Telewest.

BT and NTL provide a very brief fault management after 8pm which is stupid!

And SKY probably has about 2 customer service staff all night long and all day sunday making money from it's 0870 number by holding 50 people in queue and paying it's employees sheckles!

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

I called Sky on saturday night as my Sky+ Box is broken. The call was answered within 5 minutes, and after a 10 minute call I have an engineer coming out on Saturday (first day that suited me) to replace it. The girl on the phone also told me that If I called back after the engineer had been they would give me a refund for the weeks loss of service.

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

Yeah after spending 15 minutes on the phone totalling £1. Just wait until next year when the contract has ended and see what will happen when the box brakes down then, you will be charged for any maintainance.

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

What's 'hidden' or 'obscure' about size 12 font? Someone needs new glasses... :rolleyes: :monkey: http://www.home.ntl.com/?

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

I've had Sky+ for 18 months. Oh look a free repair and a refund.

Sky aren't stupid. Most times they will waive the £65 fee. They are hardly going to let you cancel to save themselves the £65 and lose £40 odd every month.

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

Yes you are right I apologise, It is immediately clear from only glancing at the page I went to that the price for family pack DTV is £30. :rolleyes: :monkey:

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

15 minutes to a national number on the weekend with BT Together option 1 costs 6p.

Try BT's Call Pricer if you don't believe me.
http://www.bt.com/Pricing/call_pricer.jsp

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

It's there in at least size 10 font. And a nice little asterisk too. One would hope that a potential customer would not sign up for any kind of service after only just 'glancing' at the products offered - that'd be pretty stupid, wouldn't it?

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

I never said it wasn't there. Just merely, well you don't like hidden, so lets just say out of the way. How come its not the same size font as the £19.50? ;)

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

Crikey...I'm normally the biggest pedant in here...but my position is being threatend. :LOL:

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

Well, when was Cable and wireless they stopped the residential service being available down the Mercury network and didn't like the sound of Npower so I enquired about a new line from BT which was £99.99, and the call lasted 45 minutes as the queue was very long and tried to get me to order the calling features pack and BT callminder which were all chargeable. So at the end of the call I just told them stick their contract and service where the sun doesn't shine!

So I got in touch with Cable London now called Telewest Broadband who signed me up for:

60 Analogue TV channels and Standard telephone line: £17.99 per month.
Free calls to other Cable London customers in the evening/Weekend: £0.00
Calls to landlines during daytime which costed no more than 50p.
SKY Premier,SKY Max and SKY Cinema for £10 per month
Calling features at £1 each or £3 for all features.
Free Message minder. (Free BT answer wasn't around until 2001)

That seems a good package for 1999.

In 2002, I upgraded the TV pack to Supreme which was Digital and had a new set top box.

Oh and in August, Telewest offered me 3 months free digital TV and Broadband internet just for being a customer of theirs.

And one last thing, I would never pay £199 for SKY plus box and then pay £40 odd per month for TV subscription, this is just too much for TV as their are other things important too!

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

Sky+ is only £49 for the box now.

Is there a point to this thread any more? I think we have all gathered by now that you don't like Sky or BT.

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

Im surprised at the amount of detail he can remember for 6 years ago... i mean i couldnt tell you how long i queued in ANY of the calls i made to anyone last year!!! let alone 6 years ago

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

That was quite a long time ago...things have moved on since then. Also I'm not saying that this doesn't happen now...but I reported my experience from last week as it happened.

Well I would suggest you check your facts on these prices too....but you haven't checked any of the others you spouted off on this thread, so I guess I'm wasting the effort.

As Gazee correctly states, Sky+ boxes are now available for £49 including installation. If you take a couple of premium channels on top of your family pack it will cost you 36 quid a month grand total - and then you get your free Sky+ subscription. If you don't want the premiums, it will cost £10 per month, plus you channels which for family pack is £21...s o grand total of £31. But of course you can just take a basic Sky box, rather than Sky+ which is also free right now. It's also rumoured that they might be dropping the Sky+ subscription next year when HDTV is launched.

I don't think there is! I think we should be kind and let it die.;)

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

???? The thread is called Sky V ntl. So, you're fed up with people not liking Sky/BT, so the thread should die? How about if a few ntl-haters were on here? I'm sure you lot would still be going on in this thread in 3 months time... :rolleyes:

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

sky plus is now free Ring 08701 942 094 Quote :- " New Customer Reward"

Free sky+receiver and 3 months half price subscripion

Re: SKY vs Cable
 

I think you know exactly that this is not what I was suggesting. You little stirrer you;)

I'm happy for everyone to have a go at anyone they like, but this thread appears only to be the mouthpiece of a single individual who doesn't seem to know anything about the people he's "having a go" at. If it was at all factual I'm sure we'd be having a rousing debate about it which is good.

Without wishing to sound rude about the O/P, his information is outdated, incorrect or just plain rubbish.

As I have already made my position regarding Sky and BT very clear (i.e. NTL are soooo dumped when I move house next week, and that my experience of them so far is limited only to a single call). As I'm not really able to tell you how much better they are than the shambles that is ntl (or not as the case may very well be) then there's not much more to say.