Do you want this government out?
 

Is this government costing you more money. are you worse off. are we going backwards?

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Yes, yes and no.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Would you fall into the catagory of "Would you vote for a party that promises to make you worse off" ? :)

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

....and the alternative is?

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I'm in the category that it doesn't matter because,

A) We are stuck with them until the next election.
B)Any other government will be doing pretty much what this one is doing.In a recession there is no escape.
C)Most previous governments have pretty much stiffed me in some way apart from the one that provided me with free further education.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I dunno..

Would you fall into the catagory of "Would you vote for a party that promises to make you better off" ?

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Lots of parties make all sorts of promises in their election manifestos so that they appear electable. They then tear up that manifesto when in power. One only has to look at failings of the last government to see how adept they were at that.

The one thing this government did make clear is that there would be financial pain. They were elected knowing that this was coming.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Elected?Not sure they got the clear and unequivocal result needed to claim an outright win.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I would fall into the category of "The alternative will potentially bankrupt us, bury the following generations under a mountain of debt and cause us to lose what sovereignty we do have as the IMF are called in to enact a savage austerity package that makes what we're getting now look wonderful.".

I don't vote for pain but I'm certainly not voting for a party that will blow sunshine up my backside and borrow from our kids to buy my vote.

---------- Post added at 12:49 ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 ----------

So coalitions aren't elected?

Best tell all the countries that use PR and routinely have coalitions that they are being ruled by unelected governments.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Just said there wasn't an outright winner..don't think I'd got that wrong.;)

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I don't think anyone claimed there was an outright winner either...

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Correct. Some people really do need to wake up! We can't dictate to those who fund our state spending and unless we start tackling our massive debt they're going to start dictating to us in no uncertain terms.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

.....and then the banks would close the doors and say sorry can`t help your all a bad risk & we have directors bonus to pay.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I did.

I knew the bills had to be paid, and the only way to pay them is to cut expenditure and/or raise taxation.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Well hold on tight then.

I bet there's not a lot left over to pay your own bills?

---------- Post added at 16:16 ---------- Previous post was at 15:57 ----------

Not if we have a coup.
summer's a good time for one.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

i'm on holiday in august so September suits me, up the rebels ;)

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Dave's making a habit of saying "this regime has no legitimacy and has to go" might be funny to see him practise what he preaches.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I don't mind paying more tax if it means we get our debt down. I like this governents strong stance on folk playing the dole system by claiming they can't work when they can. Too many folk think jobs like picking up litter is below them

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

We only spend what we can afford - we are taxed at source and at the time of consumption (so that takes care of that), we have a mortgage and monthly bills which are all paid on time, and if anything is left over, we use that to save up for luxury items.

Call me old-fashioned, but I don't buy anything I can't afford - the only time we have ever taken anything on HP if it is on 0% finance (and not then if the finance costs have been loaded on to the item's price).

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I'll be back off my holiday towards the end of July. September it'll probably be then.

---------- Post added at 17:49 ---------- Previous post was at 17:48 ----------

And the way things are going we won't be spending that soon.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Do we want this Government out? What and have the old worn out crap back in which led us in to the financial crisis in the first place?

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Strange - people still seem to be smoking, drinking, eating out, buying LCD/Plasma TVs, and watching Sky/VM; there don't seem to crowds on the streets lamenting the loss of those.....

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

He's being serious too.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I voted no,i remember callaghans government and all the problems of the late 70's,i was young so it didn't impact me as much as my parents but i do not want to go through that again .My only reservation is the coalition ,i would sooner a single party be in power but perhaps thats just because of the rarity of coalitions in this country ,mabe given time it will work fine ,it may even stop a single party getting out of control ,which is what happened with the last tory government imo ,as one party could keep the other in check

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Factual.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I voted no. I didn't vote for the Conservaties, I did for the Liberal Democrats, and while I disagree with a lot of what the government does it's silly to chuck them out after less than a year. The questions of legitimacy are off the mark as well, if anything this government is more representative than prior ones, the combined vote share is over 50% which not even Labour got in '97.

I don't like the cuts, and I think that the government is cutting more than they need to because they are ideologically in favour of smaller government and lower taxes and the recession and public acceptance for dealing with the economic situation gives them perfect cover.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I voted NO! Could we have another 4 years of bloody spend, spend, spend labour? Because that is the only alternative to what we have at the moment.
I would rather cut my intestines out & blind myself with a blunt pencil than spend more time under those manky labour male appendages!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Bankers or some thing similar...

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

The one thing that sealed the future fate of Labour for me was the note that was left by them

'There is no money - good luck'
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7129248.ece

Joke or not, that is the most damning statement of their government possible

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

That was indefensible, mind you so is this imo

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

The government could save a fortune by cutting Wales, we could ringfence Snowdonia buy cut the rest.

The would sort the deficit in a matter of weeks.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Pretty much repeating what the previous Labour Chancellor admitted that they would have to do ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8587877.stm

No matter who was in power huge cuts were going to have to be made Labour have said it .. the Conservatives have said it .... they didn't hide it before the election and still got more votes than any other party

Why do people act so suprised when we then have huge cuts

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

No i think you will find it was 10 years of Labour mismanagement.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Bankers didn't help, but building up unsustainable spending and government debts is what brought it all to a head.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

:tu:

Coupled of course with the actions of a good proportion of irresponsible people who ran up vast amounts of personal debt in one way or another without giving a thought to how they'd pay it back. Of course while they were so busy spending they didn't have they weren't too bothered about what HMG of the time was up to and that suited Bliar and Brown just fine.

Our current government is still only months old and they've made what I believe are some mistakes, however, the thought that there are those who'd actually like to see Milliband, Balls and their ilk back in power in spite of what they've done to this country is frankly astonishing.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

In the late 70's Labour didn't go on a big spending spree. They couldn't, they had to make cutbacks. I remember we had to provide our own paper to use in school.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Luxury! You were lucky, we had to provide our own school.... :D

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I dont care.

for the simple reason it would be simply labour coming back.

what has dissapointed me the most is not what the tories are doing but rather the lib dems.

1 - agreeing to AV as the alternative, which is still not a PR voting system.
2 - backtracking on so many of their core policies.

I guess I probably would prefer labour as I think these cuts are too brutal when I am seeing corp tax breaks etc. But I dont feel it enough in that I want the change now.

---------- Post added at 10:52 ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 ----------

its not anything like that simple.

if public spending was lower, then the boom likely would have at best been much smaller and at worse not a boom at all.
government spending is just the tip of the iceberg, what happened with the banks was the core thing at fault, if they didnt crash then we probably would still have labour in power now spending like before.

---------- Post added at 10:56 ---------- Previous post was at 10:52 ----------

Is interesting post.

I consider the dismantling of things like social services, welfare state, public services as more damaging than a bad credit rating and deficit. I think the average person on the street couldnt give a crap about the countries credit rating, thats just how it is. However people involved with finances and I think generally wealthier people consider things like the deficit and credit rating as extremely important issues.

Labour did bad things but they also did some good things which we would never has seen from a tory government such as the min wage and propping up poor areas with public sector work (I now consider this a good thing now as I learned my city will have over half of population unemployed without it).

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Nobody wants cuts in important services but these things have to be paid for. Our credit rating is what determines how much our borrowing costs and therefore how much we have to spend on services as opposed to interest repayments. The fact that many people out there can't/won't accept that explains why Bliar and Brown stayed in power so long.

Yes, Labour did some good things but then when you consider the vast amounts of money they spent doing it that really wasn't difficult was it? Getting value for that money is quite another thing, however, and they clearly fell very well short in that aspect of their financial management of the economy. Give me a blank cheque book for the purpose and the knowledge that I won't have to cough up and I'll do some good things. I dare say those I dole the money out to will love me for it and won't be too worried about where it's all coming from. Hmmm.... I could buy votes like that couldn't I?...

It's all very well having worthy ideals but IMHO a government isn't worthy of the name unless it creates the economic conditions capable of funding those ideals. New Labour didn't do that, they robbed, borrowed and spent without a care for how it was all going to be paid for. They bought power and now we're all paying the price - that's the real world, that the true new Labour legacy.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I lost respect for this lot when they started cutting taxes whilst claiming there was no way round the cuts. cLearly there is more money available than is been made out.

The tories have a history of false ideals, the biggest one been that they overate the private sector too much.

What do you mean by robbed? I hope you not one of those who consider taxation stealing.

Also you gave no explanation as to how reducing spending and creating unemployment is a fuel for growth.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I voted no because if they went we would get labour back and neither we nor the country can afford that although i am in the group that should be voting yes i am a benefit claimant and am going to be royally screwed by this government mainly to pander to the daily mail brigade. It is easy to criticise this government but what other practical real solutions are there to solving the complete mess that labour created. Yes blame the bankers but they only got as stupid as they did because the government of the time (that would be labour again) worshipped at their alter believed they could do no wrong and basically did away with regulation of the banking sector allowing stupidity to infest not just government but banking as well.

Like it or not we have a stark and simple choice ease the pain now and dump it onto our kids and grandchildren or take it now and make it easier for everyone in the long term i know which one i prefer.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

One issue is that when cuts are made they never hit the right spot as the cuts get implemented by the people/departments where the cuts should really fall.

As a crude example, merging hospitals. Clinical services are moved, often meaning patients need to travel further for treatment but there is an increase in HR and admin to manage this change. It should be the other way round. Merge the HR/admin type functions first to create a singe management body and then look at clinical side of things.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

There is no more revenue available for anything - unless you hadn't noticed we're existing on borrowing and that expenditure which isn't covered by income from taxation etc. is all going on the tab.

Gordon Brown raided the pension funds of those who'd scrimped and saved to make provision for their own future as opposed to relying on the state. Yes, I consider that akin to robbery.

When Labour came to power we had all that guff about stimulating the economy and invention, rebuilding manufacturing, stimulating enterprise etc. What Labour actually did was tax, spend, borrow and increase regualtion and bureacracy. They created a false boom based on borrowing and relying in large part for revenue from the city whose activities they conveniently overlooked for so long. Where did that get us exactly? Oh yes.. the mess we're in now!

I gather that in your world there's no such thing as waste or any job which is superfluous. No scope for cutting out dead wood at all. Everything's running at 100% efficiency with no scope for improvement. Cutting non-productive jobs and trying to create the conditions in which business can thrive is the best we can do and there are going to be people who suffer for no fault of their own. Inevitably there'll also be large numbers of job losses which nobody
wants to see but that's the reality of spending more than we can afford and Gordon Brown should've thought more about that when he was in power. By doing these things hopefully we can maintain more of the essential jobs we all rely on and find alternative work for those who've lost out.

Being in denial about the size of our problems and what has to be done may make people feel better but simply delays the day of reckoning and magnifies the problems we face. You speak as if HMG has a choice, can dictate our credit rating, can ignore international opinion, can force people to lend more and more money to us in order to carry on spending we clearly can't afford. The stark reality is that the UK is increasingly at the mercy of international financiers and they can do to us what they're doing to Ireland, Greece and Portugal. You can argue about that as much as you like but they hold all the cards and call the shots. They dictate how much our borrowing costs and therefore how much money is available to spend on services. We already spend the equivalent of our entire education budget on interest payments alone. That simply cannot continue and delaying getting to grips with our borrowing only compounds the problem and will prolong the sufferring.

If you think things are tough here, take a trip over to the 'Celtic Tiger'. It's not a mean spirited Tory govt which is forcing the huge cuts through there is it? The people and politicians there bought into the idea that they could spend, spend, spend and thereby create jobs based on borrowing but look what's happened. It's out of their hands now. They can bleat as much as they like but they just have to accept the rules of those who're bailing them out. Yes they created loads of jobs and fancy housing estates. Jobs which are now long gone in large part and housing estates which are lying empty like ghost towns. This is the real world and I don't want it to happen to us.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Where were taxes cut without balancing them through increases elsewhere?

As do Labour, the biggest one being that they overrate the public sector too much and underrate the private one.

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

You've given none why spending more on welfare and increasing interest payments is a fuel for growth.

The tax cuts you so despise are a fuel for growth. Taxation is anti-growth.

---------- Post added at 14:14 ---------- Previous post was at 14:02 ----------

They are the junior part of the coalition, and for someone like me their influence is very easy to see.

It isn't anything like that simple either. The boom was fuelled by government policy and government spending along with private debt accumulation which was unsustainable.

Had Labour not spent money like water but instead run reasonable budgets, not involving running deficit on the books and even bigger ones off the books, the funds would have been available to appropriately stimulate the economy. As it is they did nothing to correct the country's financial situation and active encouraged people to make it a lot worse.

The behaviour of banks is, of course, an issue, but they were simply serving a need, an asset bubble born out of government policies shifting investment from pension funds into property and taking increasing amounts of tax and redistributing it as welfare.

That's exactly the point, the average person on the street couldn't give a crap until these things affect them, which they would. I am unsure why you are commenting on this as if it's somehow wrong to appreciate that the government spending more on debt interest than education is a bad thing, and ramping this interest payment up through further long-term accumulation of debt is a worse thing.

It is an extremely important issue, the only reason to disregard it is ignorance.

I would regard describing these policies as 'dismantling' as being typical tabloid / union news letter speak by the way.

Propping up poor areas with public sector work isn't a good thing, it's a temporary life support, in typical Labour fashion. What they should have done is what this government is doing and incentivised private sector investment in these areas to allow for longer term prosperity rather than what will inevitably happen, areas which were previously propped up by unsustainable levels of spending being hit disproportionately hard when some of that spending is withdrawn.

Fundamentally I prefer to treat people like adults, taking their money from them and spending it for them is treating them like children. Leaving them with as much money as possible to spend / invest / save as they see fit is the grown up thing to do. Labour busily taxed, spent, and indeed taxed then provided welfare to the people they were taxing. The public sector must not, and cannot, get us out of this hole otherwise we'll just be staring up at an even deeper one in the not very distant future.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

.....and of course, New Labour having been booted out of power, these people then blame the incoming government for the problems they're facing. They should blame Labour's failure to provide them with sustainable jobs even after borrowing and spending such vast amounts of money!

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I have given explanations and here they are again so you dont need to search.

The welfare state clearly will boost the economy as people are given the ability to spend when they otherwise would be out on the streets, someone on the streests with no money isnt buying anything from shops, not renting from a landlord and so on. Whilst a benefit claimant is doing those things, even if its not earnt money it is still been done. Taxation and welfare is enforced circulation of money which is crucial to an economy, if money stops circulating then the economy stops with it.

Same principles to other government spending, it is enforced circulation of money, it makes jobs that would otherwise probably not exist and supplies work to the private sector. Reduced taxation/spending would make 'some' people better of, I dont dispute this however the benefit would be to a minority of society who dont depend on any part of the state. There is a magnitude of reasons why rely on just the private sector for growth isnt going to work, one been that we now live in a global marketplace, the uk competes with other countries for business. There is cheaper countries to employ staff and cheaper countries to set up businesses. The best days are behind us. What we going to see over the next decades is the wealth shift from western countries to developing countries as a balance correction. The only thing that can truly save us in a way you will like is if we develop something that can be exported en masse and create employment here. The problem is we tend to sell the invention rather than the product as its a quicker profit.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

But the problem is that we need to keep borrowing money as a country to meet even the current spending requirements, and if we are not seen to be trying to lower our debts, the interest rates on the money we need to borrow will go up, so we will have less to spend, so we need to borrow more, and it's a never-ending spiral into even more debt (at greater and greater cost).

Fine for us, not so good for our kids.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

its a spiral yes, but I dont think its fixable without fixing inflation.

Try reducing a money supply when inflation is growing, impossible.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I remember inflation - over 15% in the 80s and 90s.....

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Inflation over 15% ??

Interest rates certainly .. in a vain attempt to try and stay in the ERM


Edit: My mistake - just googled it and 15% in 1980

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

We're told to tighten our belts Britain is skint, and yet we give millions upon millions of pounds away in aid to countries such as Pakistan to create jobs and educate their children. Why?

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

My mistyping as well - I meant 70s and 80s.

Link

Hit a peak of 26.9% in August 1975 (but was in double figures 74-77) and 21.9 in May 1980 (but again double figures from 79-82).

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

real inflation is probably around the 10% mark now.

the 80s was an era where the low paid got poorer nothing to be particularly proud off.

however the money supply wasnt reduced then, it was increased, there was credit been dished out, wages were going up faster then as well. But crucially the internet hadnt taken off at that point so the global marketplace was much less of an issue then although was starting to become an issue. Then the recession at the end of the 80s which was the certian correction bound to occur in such a situation.

---------- Post added at 21:12 ---------- Previous post was at 21:10 ----------

funny enough that budget was even ringfenced. Another oddity for a country that is supposedbly close to calling the IMF.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I am a definate yes, Since this government has been in we have;

CUTS in nearly every service going, Now we have the armed services being cut, the Armed services keep our shores safe,

AND yet they are giving millions of pounds to overseas countries and today Cameron agreed to give a country 600 Million pounds in aid.

WE pay our taxes, and we the ones being shafted.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

RPI 5.5% Link

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I said real not government figures.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

How much tax have you paid this year Arthur? If you want shafting this is how much I gave the government as of 28th February 2011 for the year 2010-2011

PAYE to date 29147.33
Net Nat Ins Employees 4381.96
Net Nat Ins Employers 11314.82

You actually just got a tax cut, paid for by a tax rise for me and everyone else who now pays top rate tax.

So presumably I should pay more as cuts are impossible to consider and we can't really borrow any more with borrowing already going up to >80% GDP even on the OBR's rather selective figures?

---------- Post added at 22:39 ---------- Previous post was at 22:37 ----------

No-one suggested that we are 'close' to calling in the IMF.

---------- Post added at 22:43 ---------- Previous post was at 22:39 ----------

The welfare state will still exist, people won't be dumped en masse onto the streets. You're, again, exaggerating.

The section I put into bold speaks volumes. There are reasons why those jobs otherwise wouldn't exist.

Again for money to be put into public spending it has to be taken out via taxation, either now or later with interest paid in the interim. Far more elegant and efficient to just leave that money in people's pockets to spend as they see fit. Lower taxes encourage investment and consumption and incentivise work and enterprise both on a national and internationally competitive basis.

You would love the kind of cuts I would institute, I would have the state providing basic services, health care and a social security safety net and as little as possible outside of this core mission. If people want those additional services I'll keep the taxes down so that they have the money to go and purchase them themselves. Now that's ideological ;)

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

By not existing I meant alternate jobs from the private sector wouldnt exist ;) Rather than the actual positions.

The problem with keeping the money in people's pockets is it will build up in fewer pockets instead of been spread out amongst more people, that will cause a weaker economy because ultimately no matter how rich a person is they will only buy what they need for themselves, they wont buy it twice just because they richer. A nightmare scenario for a government I suspect is people hording cash in bank accounts just saving it for a rainy day, whilst that is prudent it is actually a killer for the economy. Probably why conditions have been manipulated to make that unattractive.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Many people are doing exactly what they should be, exactly what the government should be, they are deleveraging themselves, trying to pay down the debt they accumulated in the past decade.

It might not be too kind for the economy but has to be done sooner preferably rather than later.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Oh look.

This is interesting given how utterly dependent we apparently are on consumer spending fuelled by government wealth redistribution through the tax system. Anyone would think the private sector is actually capable of generating jobs and wealth.

The economy seems to be starting the process of rebalancing from unsustainable dependency on debt fuelled consumption to actually producing goods and services - this is a very good thing!

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I have paid a lot of tax into this damn government, within the last 18 months, and when they send MY money to various countries as a 'sweetner' l feel betrayed, as we are suffering big time, when other countires are growing at our expense.

Every service going in this country is effected, and now councils are going to charge for people taking waste to council tips, so councils are getting money both ways in the fact, you pay at the tip, and sell waste to recycling, and also totters.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Compare what you've put in to what you've taken out in that period and see how you do before complaining about having paid a lot of tax in. Given your constant complaints about not earning enough for your work I'm dubious. The Carer's Allowance your wife receives comes from that same pool of tax you're paying into.

I would hardly say every service is affected, I'm sure Labour will be elected in 4 years with the promise of a personal worker on the public payroll to wipe each person's arse for them anyway so don't worry too much the real world where public services have to be paid for and the government can't wrap everyone up in cotton wool and bubble wrap won't bite for too long.

I appreciate that, in the interim, some of us may not be able to afford to have both cable and Sky.

No-one ever said we were entitled to have our quality of life only improve, the previous decade's improvements are almost totally an illusion, getting some substance behind that illusion isn't going to be pleasant.

Have you considered emigration?

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Bizzarely the pakistan thread got closed. So will comment here as still some relevance.

Cameron seems to want himself out, how did it compute that by sending over half a billion to another country would go down well with people? even his own party are saying its nuts.

Thats 650million that could have been not cut from social services, welfare etc.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

The money going to Pakistan is coming from the existing International aid budget and not from other areas. I believe the UK has commitments that a certain percentage of its GDP goes to international aid each year so the money wasn't going to moved to another area without some moans.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

yes and that budget in all honesty should have been canned. The fact it got ringfenced means ultimately other budgets suffered.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I know. it doesn't matter where the money came from or this and that. all that people will see is that severe cuts to services are being made, hundreds and thousands are losing their jobs, and people are having less money. and they see this plonker who did all this go and give over half a billion pounds away to another country. :rolleyes:

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

payment for services rendered against taliban? pakistan is hardly poor, seems more like a bribe of some sort.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

GDP (PPP) 2010 estimate
- Total $451.972 billion
- Per capita $2,713

Of course it's a bribe of some sort, that's how international politics works, though given how much you want to redistribute wealth from rich to poor purely for reasons of equality I'd have thought you'd be all in favour.

UK:

GDP (PPP) 2009 estimate
- Total $2.139 trillion
- Per capita $35,082

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I think Dave will be the first PM to be thrown out by public protest. as soon as summer this year probably.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

not worldwide. This government has been elected by the people in this country not pakistan.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Seriously?

For all their bluster and moaning the anti-cuts demo attracted only slightly more than the people who marched in protest against the hunting ban in 2002.

As far as I'm concerned the far bigger issue is the debt and deficit and I'm not dumb enough to buy into the magic bean theory spouted by labour that if we just ignore it the problem will go away.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Oddly I don't remember redistribution of my wealth, as an upper-middle class worker, as being a manifesto pledge or a policy.

This government has been elected to execute UK policy at home and abroad, to suggest that the government has been elected purely for domestic policy totally foregoes any international policy.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

:clap:

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

You can come heckle me while I'm on this Gary :)

Sadly obviously not as well attended as the anti-cuts protest as no union backing and no mass of public sector workers protesting to try and preserve their jobs.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Winter, before Xmas?

But is Dave the right man to do it. is he doing too much in such a short time. will he ever have a day off. is he even sane?

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I didn't even want them in.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Just to prove how much this government thinks of the problems this countrey has, they have decided to have three weeks off at Easter, what is it going to be for summer, 3 months.

According to the two puppets, this country is in dire straights, so it is about time they put the voters who put them in power, first, instead of looking after other countries.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

They aren't having 3 weeks off at Easter, Parliament stops sitting. Government won't completely shut down.

Have a look at the historical recesses, it's not abnormal.

They are putting voters and future voters first, that's why they are taking the harsh decisions rather than following in the footsteps of Portugal and delaying the pain.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Parliament is a part of government. It is not the whole government though. The government does not stop working just because Parliament isn't sitting. If it did, the government would stop working every year.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Yet again you have proved nothing (See last two posts before this one for a clue), you cannot use such words 'Just to prove' when they are just your usual baseless rants.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

The process of weaning people off benefit dependency started in 2008 with the ESA introduction.

Unfortunately due to the level of debt, cuts with unintended consequences have been put in place. All I hope is some of the more immediately detrimental cuts are looked at sooner rather than later. Who for instance would have thought the Tories would cut the military so savagely?

Regardless, we need the current government to kick start self reliance again.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

yawn :dozey:

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I am lost for words, people becoming self reliant? thatcher thought the same and wrecked society by manipulating people to look after themselves and not have a country that people look after each other.

Benefit dependancy is typically not a choice. So your first comment suggests you out of touch, a hint is ignore what you read in the papers regarding welfare its 95% rubbish.

Since people already are self reliant it would seem to be you suggesting safety nmet's shouldnt exist so those who fail just die off unless their family/friends helps them out.

Given the modern peace in europe I think militiary cuts are not so serious as localised cuts in public services.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I suspect Angua is considerably more 'in touch' than most of us, she's slapped me down on more than one occasion.

You did see the link in her signature, right?

While I'm thinking about it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvz8tg4MVpA - deja vu.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

so thatcher started that rubbish phrase.

I dont agree with the phrase taxpayers money. Once tax is paid its no longer taxpayer's money, its government money. Just because thatcher said it, it doesnt mean its true.

eg. if I buy something of you does that mean the money I have given you is still my money? of course not. Its like saying tesco is broke because their money is customer's money.

I may have misunderstood what angua meant by self reliance of course.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Well please asnwer this question then, there must be a load of Tory lovers on this forum.

This country is always giving money to overseas aid, and then we give a further 600 MILLION to a rich country, that shouldn't need it.

Its a kick in the teeth for the voters, who are seeing cuts galore, in this country.

How much money in this this secret chest, where they seem to find money for that, BUT not for this country, remember its OUR MONEY.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Err trade is something quite different from taxation.

It's not government money, it is always taxpayers' money, the government is spending it on our behalf.

I doubt Thatcher started that 'rubbish phrase'. Your disdain for taxpayers is quite curious, I presume you are one yourself after all?

---------- Post added at 12:14 ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 ----------

Err the overseas aid budget is quite easy to find, there's nothing secret about it at all.

Pakistan is not a rich country by any stretch, they aren't super, super poor but are a long way from being rich. I've already provided their GDP, it's not huge and way lower than ours.

It is in our interests, in a big way, to keep them onside. The specifics of the deals that were made I do not know, but rest assured that money didn't come without strings attached. They are important in keeping terrorism under control.

For all the complaints about schooling in the UK we don't have 40% of under 9s not going to school. The money makes a genuine difference and, by serving others, we can serve our own international and domestic interests to some extent. You can't entirely shut the world out, we need it, we want other countries to become wealthy so that we can sell things to them and benefit from their wealth and in turn increase our own.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12589626

7.8 Billion. Next question.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

correct I am a taxpayer, I dont hate taxpayers. :)

But to label it taxpayer's money after it has changed hands is wrong. It is a legal transaction over to the state, at that point it is state money. If you dont consider it to be state money then openly refuse to pay your taxes and see what happens.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

If the cuts and their ways of doing things didn't affect me the way they do, if I had the means or luxury of riding the cuts even meaning losing a bit of money in which that doesn't mean a chance of losing everything, then I'm sure my opinion would be based towards the country's needs instead of mine. I would probably have more of an opinion if that was the case.

It seems as it stands here 33 for yes and 36 for no says a lot, but by reading all the posts it looks more like 5/95%. I wonder why.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I think you hit it on the head peanut. Voting 'Yes' in the hope that all would go back to how it was before, whatever the consequences, is easy while admitting that it's purely for self-interest isn't so easy to articulate without sounding selfish.

---------- Post added at 12:28 ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 ----------

Just as a reminder of what the government is they are our elected representatives. One of their functions is to decide how best to allocate our money. When the money goes to the government it is tax payers' money, when they hand it out again it remains money from other tax payers, delivered via the government, not government money. They allocate funding, they don't directly trade goods or services for the money they receive in taxation and do not hold it long term, they hold it until it either is spent or used to pay down debt.

By your logic when you put money into your bank account it becomes the bank's money. When you put some money into your savings it becomes the account operator's.

Your last sentence is ridiculous. The law is the law whatever my opinion of it so it's a non-issue. Regardless of whether it's state money or not the law demands payment and has appropriate penalties for refusing to comply. Sounds almost like extortion doesn't it? ;)

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I think most people know we cant go back to how it was before. Even labour said they were going to impose cuts.

For me personally it is I dont like how the tories have shared the burden between cuts and tax increases (too much on cuts), and the unbalanced cuts like ringfencing international aid applying extra cuts on welfare over other budgets. I also dont like how they carry on labour's spin coming out with false figures in public statements to help justify their policies.

---------- Post added at 12:32 ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 ----------

I think you chose a poor comparison :) you comparing a bank account to paying taxes. So if you are right I can goto my local tax office now and withdraw any taxes I have paid right? it is my money.

I will call it state money from now on rather than government money as the government is elected to run the state.

on the extortion yeah it is ;) thats what it is more or less, as i said before it is enforced sharing of wealth. As people are hardly going to hand it over by themselves.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

When members have stated that the UK are going to supply this and that, WHAT about the UK, they are cutting everything Education, Welfare, closing down OAP Centres, what about us, oh l forgot, the UK is not important enough, we supply the tax, and the government give it to other countries.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

These cuts have to happen there is no alternative we were about to have our credit rating lowered meaning we would have paid more in interest for the money we are borrowing. I have more reason then most to fear all these cuts i am dependent on benefit and likely will be for the rest of my life medical cure notwithstanding but i understand that we have to do something drastic.

Arthur i used to view your rants with a smile but you really are becoming tedious now you constantly lay into this government for what they HAVE to do because of the previous thirteen years of labour mismanagement. Yet not a bad word passes your lips for your beloved labour party who i suspect are actually quite happy not to have to be the government at this time sorting out the mess they created.

One area of cuts that is really grinding me is the military as we have so many of our very limited forces commited and seem to be eager to commit more to other areas those cuts are really pathetic. Do i agree with all this government is doing no i don't i thnk benefit reform that IS needed is being done wrong and in a way that is more expensive then it has to be.

Reality is though as it stands as big as we may think the mistakes this government are making are they pale into insignificance with the mistakes of the last government. Sometimes it is more important to remember who put you in the brown stuff rather then blame the poor sods that have to dig you out of it.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Overseas aid is a somewhat circular system in that it helps to keep work here, possibly by supporting countries elsewhere in buying our services. In addition the population in the aided country stays put rather than migrating here using our resources at a higher price. So quite possibly cost neutral.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

You keep badgering on about cuts Arthur, yet you still don't get it. There is a massive MASSIVE black hole in the UK's money pot.

Come back to reality, if you work a month of no overtime, you get less money, so you have to scale back what you spend in that month, this is a CUT back, unless you choose to use your flexible friend. Labour kept on spending, spend spend spend and then they spent some more, all on the nations flexible friend. As you know with credit, it HAS to be paid back, with interest.

This is where we are now, after 13 years of Labour's spending spree, the money they borrowed now has to be paid back, unfortunately, that means CUTS. If we don't curb the debt burden then our future generation, that's your children's children, will be left with a massive debt mountain, hardly fair, don't you think?

The other issue is that if we do not take hold of the nations finances then we risk going through what other countries are going through, do you recall the Irish needing a bail out? Greece's credit rating being down rated? And now Portugal approaching the EU for an emergency bail out. Do you honestly want this to happen here?

While you are also going on about other countries getting money from us, it's about, 'If we scratch their back, they will scratch ours' only this is through Trade. £650 Million whilst to you and me is a massive amount of money, in UK Export Industry terms, it pales in to insignificance.

I don't like cut backs any more than you do Arthur, but like you and like me, when we become broke or money becomes tight, you, me, we live within our means and cut back on some of lifes essentials. This is equivilent to what the Government is doing now.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

tl;dr

Voted No.

I do not think that we can afford to go back to Labour in all honesty, we would be mad to wouldn't we?

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

if you believe the current spin yes. Dont take anything coming from parties as gospel.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

But its not just those on the dole they are targeting they are targeting the people who cannot work. I myself am on long term sick becaue of my health which isnt my fault and i need daily treatment and medication which makes me a danger to myself and others in a work place.

I know of 2 people who have been found fit for work so far.

1 has terminal cancer and is in extreme pain all the time he was found fit to go out and find work, he has his incapacity stopped and his DLA.

1 was involved in a car accident many years ago when a truck didnt stop at a traiffic light and rammed his car side on, he had to be cut out of his car and leg amputated on the scene. he is crippled down one side of him and needs constant care and is in constant pain also. Again his incapacity was stopped and so was his DLA and hes been found to be fit.

The problem with what they are doing is these people who are doing the assessing are stopping money to those who clearly need it to try and balance the books to make them look good.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Your household is obviously not in that bad a state Chris given the monstrous PC in your signature.

I have my doubts about the person with terminal cancer being found fit to work - this would be all over the headlines surely as it's both outrageous injustice and a real news story?

---------- Post added at 10:00 ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 ----------

I quite agree about supply of tax and the relative benefits seen, that's why I want them to be as low as possible.

Everyone wants the services so long as other people are paying for them, let's cut taxes to the bone and cut services to the bone and let people who want more pay for it themselves, that way no room to complain about paying for other people. :tu: