browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

Truck drivers have said if brown does not lower fuel, then they will block oil refineries...see second link

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article....&in_page_id=34

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"We want 25p off a litre now otherwise we will block the oil refineries."


http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news...n_fuel_tax.php

I feel it is right what these truckers are wanting...and they are right in saying it is they that make the UK run...and the government know this...yet it will be the government saying the truckers are holding the UK to ransom...when it is naturally the reverse isn't it???

Think we better start stocking up

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

Everyone who's feeling the pinch should be out there protesting with the truckers!. If rising petrol prices are a global problem, then why are prices in other country's nowhere near as high as this one? Greedy government TAX TAX and more TAX. What a racket! :td:

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

Of course the price of petrol is way high, its gone from $14 a barrel in 2000 to over $130 a barrel now, if Brown were to take 25p off the price of a litre that would mean cuts of millions to the public purse, which in turn means who's going to suffer, the police, hospitals, defence or our kid's education. He no doubt would love to get in everybody's good books by slashing tax on petrol, but his all to aware its a lot more complicated than that.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

So it seems if he is not willing to cut prices, then it seems those haulage guys are going to pack it in as it is not worth it, and where does that leave the UK then.

It seems a catch 22 either way...UK is finished...

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

Simple, he cuts the prices of petrol.
Problem solved, so what the government will lose money, It's about time we seen a "decrease in a taxed product in this country, every other tax has risen, whilst none at all have fallen for years.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

hiya

So if he cuts the price of petrol Mr. Brown has to get that loss back from somewhere, so I do not think it is as simple as that. Also he has said inflation has risen in line with the world economy, so he has to keep the balance somewhere or it throws world economy out of kilter.

---------- Post added at 08:44 ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 ----------

hiya

Makes me think has this fuel crisis been created on purpose, as Brown is intent on Nuclear energy as the way forwards.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7424158.stm

I think David Icke has got it spot on -

PROBLEM (FUEL CRISIS)

REACTION (Lorry Haulage Drivers up in arms) obviously without them knowing real reason

SOLUTION (Government implement steps to NUCLEAR power making it look like it was us that demanded it)

I do not trust this government and if this is the case then everyone is falling into the trap when they think they are having a say or a right.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

The truckers are saying 'cut government spending or we close down Britain'. That's forcing a democratic government to change policy by using undemocratic means. We sometimes call that terrorism. I certainly won't be joining them.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

Democracy? What democracy? The government started closing down Britain years ago! What would you call that?

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

hear hear.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

hear hear from me as well. `mind you if I could have the proposed £38,000 expenses the MPs are after suppose I might just manage.....

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

They were voted in so .... a democracy!

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

IIRC (as happened with so many of his soundbite utterances) Bliar claimed he wouldn't be forced into changing govt. policy at the time of the last fuel blockades, then did just that by putting off planned duty increases for 2 years. These people are full of so much hot air.........

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

That is absurd. The rising cost of fuel is being experenced world-wide. The oil itself is more expensive.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/TECH/sci...ing/index.html

Almost every other country has the same problem...

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/BUSINESS...oil/index.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-gridlock.html
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...Story/Business

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

hiya

yes almost every other country has the same problem...David Icke is not just on about UK he is on about global domination....

you know think outside the box...

just because they were voted in does not make it a democracy...think about it you voted in the people that have kicked the UK in the balls..in fact the UK has no balls left...its been sold off left, right and centre, too many examples to list.

The people think they have a say with voting...which makes it look like a democracy, but look the government are not listening to fuel protestors...in fact I think I read that they are reducing it by 2p...wow!!! no doubt they will tax something else at 20p...

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...cle1220336.ece

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

Well, the Issue is not made up to promote alternative energy sources, that is just a natural result of the problem we have with oil and the continued problem we are going to have.

David Icke is a wacko anyway, of course he is going to think everything is a conspiracy, this is a guy who belives the world is controlled by reptilian overloads.

---------- Post added at 14:03 ---------- Previous post was at 14:02 ----------

You only think outside the box if you have evidence for the claims you make, he is just making stuff up that sounds dodgy.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

seaofpepsicola: do you really have to say "hiya" at the start of every post, its not an msn chat room you know.

Would the government even miss a slight decrease in tax on fuel anyway? Theres plenty of other things that are overtaxed in our joke of a country.

Hell, if we had a list of expenditure per year of our FUEL tax alone, i'd be willing to bet it goes nowhere but into the coffers building up year after year.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

If we were to start listening to David Icke we might as well push the button, the guy lost it in the late 80s when he went from a respectable sports commentator to the son of God, almost overnight, his away with the fairies.... oopps and the lizards of course. As regards thinking outside the box, Icke is not only outside the box, but outside of the shop and 50 miles down the road.

Also as to having no democracy, we voted this government in and we will no doubt vote it out, sounds pretty democratic to me, if Brown doesn't do it for you, you can get rid of him, men have died fighting for what we have. Someone once said, "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others", to me that about sums it up.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

might i just add that stock piling fuel at home is a recipe for disaster.!

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

And potentially illegal

from

http://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosi...oleum/faqs.htm

It may also be worth mentioning that the News today (BBC Radio) was saying incidents of fuel theft are increasing - including people siphoning off heating oil from external tanks, so anyone who does have oil fired heating should make sure their tank is secure ....

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

We need Brown and his Labour Muppet's sacked now before they make an even bigger mess of this country.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

This isn't a case of Brown choosing not to back down the fact is thanks to his economic genius he can't back down this country simply doesn't have the reserves to make a compromise. Only way he could and i wouldn't put it past him as he must know he is out at the next election is to borrow the money and increase the national debt safe in the knowledge that he won't have to sort it out. That's what worries me most another labour demolition job on the country in the hope of making the next tory government look bad and certainly screw them up for the first few years of tory rule.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

Indeed, although in my case only if one of the containers splits and spills veg oil on the carpet, then it could be fatal!

I remember hearing about a bloke who stored gallons and gallons in his garage, and one day he was working in there when the lot went up.

Unfortunately, I would imagine there are many people out there who have stockpiled petrol (are there actually restrictions on diesel stockpiles? I couldn't find any when I looked during the first blockades, when it was cheaper to go to france on the ferry and fill up than the local petrol station!) simply because they know they'd not be able to afford the current prices.

Think about it, they set the taxation level to return enough revenues to the treasury as is needed for the year. The price of fuel has gone above expectations, therefore the amount of tax returned is greater than what was budgetted for.
What people are asking for is that extra tax to be returned by reducing the rate of duty.
So it's not taking money that was expected away from the treasury, but extra cash they didn't expect.
The problem is, that extra money is needed because the government have screwed up so much.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

I know what your saying Xaccers, but you know as well as I that no government could slash 25p off the price of a litre, maybe he could reduce it by 2-5p at most. As regards the extra tax that's going into the overall kitty, I wouldn't imagine its all bunce because of the general downturn where people aren't spending so the governments taking less tax.

Anyway I'm going off point here, I agree we pay too much tax at present, I wanted to point out to others that a 25p a litre cut would certainly mean cuts in other areas.


BTW Like the new avatar.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

I know, I agree that 25p is a bit much, even if it's only given to hauliers, but some decrease could be given, which in turn would help stimulate the economy and therefore bring in more tax


PS Thanks :)

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

The answer is to be prepared for a ten year recession, all the talk in the World isn't going to prevent it.
The years of plenty (loans) was not normal and was unsustainable.
Prepare to return to normality.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

I think we also need to have a more powerful House of Lords (maybe elected but longer terms and only 1/3rd up for re-election at any one time akin to the American Senate). As well as abolishing the parliement act.

We need to take power away from the commons so that they can't introduce knee-jerk reaction policys whenever a election is due :erm:

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

Agreed Damien, and in that reform we must get rid of the remaining 90 or so hereditary peers, in this day and age it is totally anachronistic to believe power should be granted by accident of birth.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

The problem with this is that the independence of the HOL may well be affected if we go for elected candidates especially if it comes down to members being promoted by either of the three main political parties.:(

What I like about the present system is that each hereditary lord is not bound to support any party because their position is already secure and not reliant on support from a political party.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

What do people not understand.

Brown can cut fuel duty without affecting the public purse.

A year ago I was paying 95PPL, now I'm paying 125PPL, thats a 33% inscrease. This means hes got 33% more to tax. So that if fuel hadn't gone up would the money be missed?

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

I was on about stocking up food...not fuel...as in no deliveries so food shortage in shops.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

Problem is with elected anything is the level of apathy in the UK right now having elections more often is no good till we can get people involved in politics again. For that sadly we need some politicians of worth people that have a message to deliver that actually is for the good of the people and a person that can be in the public eye without some scandal coming to light. Not going to happen anytime soon i think and therefore the idea of getting elected officials for parliament and HOL good as it would probably be is a non starter for now.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

A lot of those hereditaries are affiliated to the Tory party though coggy, the leader of the Conservatives in the Lords, Lord Strathclyde is an hereditary, until the 2002 house of Lords reform act the Tories had an inbuilt majority by way of hereditaries which had given them a majority for nearly a thousand years. Even now the hereditary make up of the Lords is
Conservative 42
Liberals 3
Labour 2
Cross 28
Others without voting rights 16

After the reform bill the Labour government made more life peers who were affiliated to the Labour party so as to balance the benches.

Having said this the higher echelons of the Conservative party no longer want the hereditary situation to continue, and the remaining 92 will eventually be phased out by "natural wastage" ie: death. By which time hopefully all three major parties will have agreed a consensus.

As it stands now the make up is as follows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_o...nt_composition

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

But don't you see that if you make them an entirely elected second house then the divisions will be along exactly the same lines as in the Commons.I want a second house that is entirely independent of the influence of party lines.

I've not been entirely happy about the imbalance of the past but I fail to see how an elected body won't bring us back to frequent imbalance every time there is an election.I frankly think what we have now is preferable to that plus at least with a Lord who is in for life that they aren't affected by short termism as so frequently affects the Commons.Someone complained about the kneejerk reactions of government but it has to be said that the HOL can avoid all that at present.An elected body may not be able to resist.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

To be perfectly honest coggy I'm not sure what is best, as you point out a 100% wholly elected house along party lines would just be a rubber stamp for the governing party, then or course if you have a wholly appointed house there's the question of who does the appointing. So it has to be a compromise between the two, whereby no party ever has a majority, say 60% elected 40% appointed. The problem comes I suppose with the appointees political affiliations, as I say I'm not sure, its just that I detest the idea of some Tufton Bufton from the shires whose only qualification is by accident of birth.

PS I like the new avatar, very sexy.:D

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

How about an upper house filled with ordinary members of the public every five or six years a set amount of people from across the UK are chosen and they form the upper house and oversee parliament. If nothing else it would certainly get the puiblic back into politics and would be a first for any developed country.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

They are finished anyway, Europe has saw to that yesterday when they allowed foreign truckers the right to do other jobs once they had finished the one that brought them here, what a pish take, you know they are re-fuled by foreign tankers in a lot of cases, they pay nothing into the economy :mad: :(

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

the price off petrol is going a bit to high

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

Well last saturday 24th I paided 125ppl today the same garage is charging 128ppl.

That taking the p.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

You think so?

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

Seems a good idea; the only thing is how would you define 'ordinary'. These people would be responsible for checking laws ensuring they serve the public and do not sacrifice liberty, safety, or otherwise unduly infringe upon the public in a way that outweighs the benefits of the law.

I would want the upper-chamber to be qualified to make these decisions; I think we often forget how difficult government must be. While there are not necessary any checks on suitability now, I think in most cases we elect people who have the intellect, if not always the competence, to make these choices.

Selecting ‘ordinary’ people would be a bad idea unless we select smart, responsible people.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

Exactly, something along these lines would be a disaster if people were recruited as they are for jury duty, also what would worry me is how politically neutral any such person would be.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

Or you could simply have experts that advise on the issues where there may be a lack of knowledge. While some on here seem to have large amounts of the UK population down as stupid and not as capable as some i have a little more faith that people have a grasp of things and could make reasoned arguments. Not being funny but for everyone on here and out in the real world that thinks they are more intelligent or more responsible then someone else there is someone that thinks your an idiot and not as responsible as them where does it stop. Also could it possibly be worse then what we have now where party lines matter more then the issue being debated\voted on.

Re: browns not backing down so looks like more road blocks ahead
 

My thoughts

1)We have in a sense been less hit here with fuel prices than else where BECAUSE tax is so high, the percentage increase is smaller (though the VAT element also increases).

2)Financially we are in the doodoos. Labour took over a growing economy and will pass over a sinking one. Whoever comes in will need to deal with that and have less room to manouver since Gordon sold of the family jewels.

3)The unelected nature of the upper house is brilliant. They don't have to follow party lines and instead can rule on what's good law etc. They don't have to be popular either. As unelected they quite rightly can't make law but they can and do reform it. Also as unelected they are not paid. True that may mean that they need to keep a day job but then surely that makes them more like the electorate in some senses.