Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

hi all....

any comments or opinions on this....
http://www.ntl.com/mediacentre/press/display.asp?id=335

apparently staff at the swansea callcentre were today briefed that as from later this year....september i think it was??? the callcentre will be outsourced to IBM...and IBM will be outsourcing the staffing to Manpower.

good or bad????

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

:eek: wtf ?????

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

yes indeed.... changes in employment though... same staff, same place, same contract, just a different employer. I was going to mail you debsy with the news but didn't get a chance today!

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

OMG everyone is going to be on agency books at this rate.It's no fun as you are always the first out of the door when push comes to shove.

Incog.

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

Well, we all thought it was very strange when we tried to transfer calls from 7.30 pm on to be told that the call centre was closed until tomm, no-one bothered to tell us what was going on :shrug:

MB, hope everything is ok for you chuck :tu:

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

Hmmm, the link above relates to May 2001.....

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

Link is about IT outsourcing not a call centre.

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

Is anyone really surprised that something like this was gonna happen?

The same thing happened to most of the people in my sister-in-laws IT department in BAEsystems. Ended up costing BAE more for its IT support after making the IT department a seperate company, than it did when it was 'inhouse'.

Just more evidence as to what a shower ntl management are. :mad:

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

Same happened where i work. Outsource to IBM, then the IBM contract was cancelled because they were pathetic. Now its outsourced to another provider. About 90% of coding is done in India too.

NTL management will have made the decision based upon cost.

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

apologies for the out of date link.....was the only relevant news regarding ntl outsourcing to IBM i could find....

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

Looks like it hasn't been released to the press yet. Remember, these half-arsed decisions take time to filter though... :rolleyes:

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

I had a PM today from someone in the TSB at Swansea who wants to remain annoymous - apparently this is going ahead very soon.

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

1st September, as I understand it.

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

If our contacts are with Manpower, what protection do we have from IBM cutting staff or getting rid of staff that don't conform (rebellious, union minded, sick etc) without notice?

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

Your contract of employment will or will not be renegotiated. As it sounds like there is some unionisation, this will need to be done with their input.

Ususally contracts of employment transfer as is with a continuous service link, so it is not like you are starting a new job, but still working for the same eer for say 5 years.

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

You'll get the same protection with regards to employment as we did in Newport when we were outsourced to Fujitsu

http://www.dti.gov.uk/er/individual/tupe-pl699a.htm

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

The TSB has no union representation; the problem with the transfer is that NTL transfers the contacts to IBM who on the same day transfers the contracts to manpower. While contracts remain intact they will be with Manpower and not IBM, Manpower are responsible for supplying numbers but I would imagine the numbers would be up to IBM.
If IBM say they want to cut numbers by 50 I would imagine that Manpower will just make staff redundant... probably at the lowest payout possible.

As far as I am concerned employment agencies are used so that staffing levels can be manipulated without any unfortunate complicationsâ↚¬Â¦ like redundancy payouts etc.

Hope I am wrong, but I doubt it!

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

All I know is it feels like a kick in the teeth.

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

Sorry to moan, but I really think a little consideration is needed before members post things like this. Not all staff may know about these things, and to hear it on a forum like this can be a little devastating. How about in future, whoever finds out info like this checks with a mod/admin guy before posting. At least then the mod/admin can check with an employee behind the forum scene to see if it's been officially announced before publishing it here....

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

and those of us who have worked for manpower before know what they are like.

they had the contract in the Pembroke Dock call centre for ITV digital

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

I currently work for manpower at a little company called EDS.
Manpower arent that bad really, round here they do a good job.

Whats that thing called......tupe???? aint worth the paper its written on.
Manpower now has some good staff benefits, and I dont object to working for them.

All I can say is good luck guys, it could be worse, at elast they havent outsourced to Capita, then you would all be on the dole.

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

I cant speak for individual contracts, but Manpower did a scheme with my employment as a new starter, 3months probabtion then long term contract. After 3 months they had to give me a months notice of termination.
No matter what people tell you, there are employment laws and all agencies have to obey these laws.
I think personally this will be a good move, as it will get those few bad seeds out of there, improving the image and quality to all customers. This will directly benefit the employees too.

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

Everyone in the TSB knew already, and since it only effects them I don't see posting it as a problem:)

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

I know a couple of companies who looked at moving down there and declined due to the fact that Manpower would handle all the staffing issues.

Having said that British Gas use Blue Arrow and as someone else has said, ntl use Fujitsu in Newport so its not uncommon these days.

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

Thats right... in the end the council took the call centres back off Manpower (or something along those lines)

there are now a couple of contracts going on there now such as the Department of work and pensions

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

I like the "Manpower" bit, they seem to have the lowest paid jobs that I have ever seen.

As anyone else noticed the same about them! :(

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

yes manpower used to pay £5.15 an hour down at the ITV Digital call centre :(

which was very low on comparison to the ITV digital plymouth call centre which as far as i am aware was directly employed by ITV digital...

ntl has history with manpower anyway... when itv digital collapsed ntl purchased the subscriber list off itv digital and then employeed the ex-employees there through manpower to contact itv dig customers to sell them ntl products as a replacement

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

This story has made it to the Register: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/06...tsourcing_ibm/

I dunno myself if this is going to make any difference to customer service. I suspect not. Service standards may be laid down in the new IBM contract, but bottom line is that IBM will be wanting to see a profit, so they are gonna want to do it as cheap as possible.

Although existing staff should have the same terms of employment under TUPE, I can see changes coming. New staff will porbably have lesser terms, and at some stage in the future the few remaining old ntl staff will be asked to move to new contract terms that match the later contracts issued to new joiners. There may be a little financial compensation, but what about things like pension plans, discounted ntl services and other benefits that ntl staff might currently enjoy.

However of biggest concern is that if new staff are on lesser salaries, so IBM can make a profit, the calibre of staff being hired may well also drop. That means worse rather than better standards.

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

I think you'll find that IBM will handle things in a far more proffessional and efficient manner, which in turn should cost less. IBM employ (via Manpower) 175,000 call centre employees world wide on a permenant basis, and this experience will soon be reflected in a change (hopefully for the positive) to the customer and his experience in dealing with NTLI. Better tech support management = happier, more productive and better trained staff = happier customer base. IBM will be answerable to NTLI so the customer experience, if it does not improve may see the contract with them nullified.

I have to say this seems like a positive step, one I'm quite happy about, but as litany of cliches and counter cliches go, "Que Sera Sera", "Proof is in the pooding" etc.... We'll just have to "suck it and see".

*fingers crossed*

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

Hi A=MH² & :welcome: to the forum.

I do hope your right as that will be good for both the staff and customers, whcih ultimately benefits ntl and IBM.

I'm perhaps a little cynical due to my only experience of "outsourcing" and TUPE type transfers of staff - a local authority Architect Surveyors and Maintenance staffing including support line for building tenants and occupiers - to a large multinational service contract provider (you name it they have the finger in the pie somewhere - rail maintenance - tube - local government - hospitals - I could go on). The bottom line was cost - do it cheaper so that the parent company could see a profit. Doing the job professionally went out the window. It was no longer a case of how long do you need to do this properly, i.e. the staff dirve the job and resources based on their experience, just you have x hours allowed and that's it, driven by the accountants. If you didn't get the job done in that time, regardless or extenuating cirumstances you were in line for the chop. Problem is to get is done in time, you cut corners, and then had to take the blame when it fell apart on site (literally) cos the necessary bases weren't covered.

As for recruiting via an agency, does that gurantee better staff quality. I doubt it, more it's lining the pockets through the fees payable of yet somebody else, rather than investing in the actual support system's facilities and staff directly operating it.

We wait and see whether IBM will, with their vast experience actually resource it properly.

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

Hmmmmmmm. I'm afraid I strongly disagree having experienced the IBM-run IT Helpdesk at ntl.

I think that the quality will go down, the costs will Skyrocket as IBM are involved, and the customer will end up getting a worse deal when the effects of Manpower control filter through after a few months.

LOL, sorry but it doesn't work like that. IBM have been in charge of ntl's IT support, etc since 2001, and every single person I've ever spoken to in ntl has been derogatory about the level of service provided by IBM and the prohibitively high costs.
Indeed we will.

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

Precisely.

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tech_bo..._structure.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tech_bo..._structure.jpg
pretty much says it all

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

How long before they move these jobs to India, Pakistan or will Iran become the latest target.

Saddly this is not what NTL customers was wanting to hear we was more thinking less bosses and more frontline people who had the companies customers as a priority.

Time for rethinking the options available to most customers if this is the trend that management want they are selling us the customers short and putting our personal details open to abuse from others. Already some in India have shown they can be bribed to give card details out.

The most secure way to control the records of the customers is keeping this in house under total control of the management perhaps new management with the correct ideas on how to improve the system.

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

Woah...less haste, more Alpen!
These jobs haven't gone to India. I suppose in theory they might in the future, but also they might not. Let's not start talking about 'giving up ntl services' just because there is a theoretical possibility that some jobs might end up in India. Wait until anything definite is said (which I personally doubt) and then review the situation then.

The recent Fujitsu outsourcing of dialup tech support doesn't seem to be going that way and I have not yet heard any negative feedback from the affected staff, despite dealing with them on a regular basis.

In my time with the company, most of these sort of 'rumours' have turned out to be totally false, and I hear many of them, believe me.

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

How do you know it's his webspace?

The only people here who would be able to get any kind of trace on him would possible be the admin team and we're certainly not going to do that.

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

What's the problem? If someone was to try and report him, they would need to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is not using webspace belonging to someone else, surely?

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

Have I missed something or has Tech boy just posted a rather humorous and witty picture, how does this break the terms of his contract?

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

And now back on topic please...

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

I would just like to clear things up with Just another noob, I'm making a statement about the upper levels of management the world over, not just in NTL.

I am sorry If I have caused offence to anyone.


Peace Out.

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

Department for work and Pensions (DWP) is currently held by EDS, They also Hold Jobcentre plus, and several other BIG, and i mean BIG contracts.
EDS have revenues of approx 20 Billion US dollars, would a company like that deal with manpower if manpower was such a bad company?

Manpower provide staff to EDS for all these accounts.
I wouldnt worry about manpower, it isnt manpower that hold th econtract, if Mnapower dont perform then IBM will get out. Manpower provide staff on the terms IBM setout. Any problems and worries you have will be better addressed to IBM.

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

I was talking to a mate about this the other day - the rise of the virtual company where the company is little more than a name and a handful of staff in an office somewhere. Everything is outsourced - contracts are easier to manage than departments. Develop your skills for the new jobs market: know yourself and what you have to offer, market yourself aggressively, and always do what's best for your career. Forget company loyalty because they won't be loyal to you and chances are you'll be employed by an agency anyway. Get what you can out of your company, particularly in terms of training - but know and be clear about what training you need and make sure you get it. Remember that when it comes to agencies you become a comodity just like a packet of cat litter, say. They're not nice people. In my estimations they're down there with Job Centre and DSS staff. It sucks I know but it's a modern world :) The cosy British notion of a job for life just doesn't exist anymore.

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

I hope the ntl management took note of the following, not same industry and internal vs external customers, but...

http://www.computerweekly.com/Article111096.htm

http://www.jimpinto.com/enews/sep26-2003.html#1

Re: Ntl outsourcing swansea tsb to IBM
 

ntl's IT support is already managed by IBM, so ntl have already had first hand experience of the company. The most have some good reason for doing it, otherwise why did not not outsouce to Fujitsu like they did with dial up support :shrug:

I am not going to comment on what i think about IBM's management skills but i just hope it is good as we are being as told it will be. Only time will tell....

MB