Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

On a personal level I don't care what people download as long as it doesn't affect my use of my connection and I am not subsidising customers whose usage costs NTL more than the subscription they are paying. Someone has to make up for this loss in revenue and it is the vast majority of normal users. If the cap means that the service is not suitable for your intended use then you have a few rights. You can moderate your usage to fit in with the NTLs wishes, you can complain but I don't think that will get you anywhere or you could move to another supplier.

Willing to pay the price for the service you are getting is highly commendable. The problem with reasonable and realistic is that no two people will have the same view on what they mean.

Saying what you download is nobodies busines apart from yourself and NTL is slightly wrong. There are other people who quite rightly may take an interest in what you are downloading and uploading. You never know who you are talking to on the internet or what they do for a living. ;)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

So you are happy to break the law just because you can? You realise the penalty for driving 120 is a lot higher than the one for doing 80.

yes ntl are a private company so their first priority is the shareholders- and therefore their primary interest is making profit. I assume that by "in england" you are aware that these means a few limited areas, and you have to be pretty much sat on the exchange to get the speeds. My g/f lives in central london and the fastest ADSL is still only 2mb.

telewest provide certain areas and ntl provide others- eg, TW serve bristol, but ntl do not, so i don't see where you argument is going... i don't think there are any areas that are served by both cable companies so wherever you are, the biggest choice you will get is ADSL or a cable company.

Because of the nature of a cable network if people are hammering their connection (in particular the upstream) this is going to degrade service for other customers. Why should 20 customers suffer because of the actions of 1 when ntl can use a cap to restrict usage. This may make that one person happy, but i doubt very much whether the other 19 will all be annoyed about it. A utalitarian would go for the option that makes the most people happy- and this would appear to be capping the service.

I am voicing my opinion- i drive at the speed limit, and for your information i would not by an amazingly powerful car because i do not see the point, same as i would not buy a 4x4 because it does not suit my needs, but now we are getting off topic...

go for it... but if you are chastised by ntl for your usage then you should not be surprised- the cap is part of the terms and conditions which you are bound by, if you are not happy with this, take your sevice elsewhere!


when you upgraded your speed it was reiterated that the cap exists- so this is the spefication to which you should be working. As stated above, if you have a problem with this then expect to be contacted by ntl regarding your usage.


Nothing wrong with having your opinion, but if you listen to and appreciate the opinions of others then you will be welcomed much more warmly. Don't get me wrong, i am not saying that you should agree with me, or anyone else for that matter- there is a difference between being considerate to others's opinions and agreeing with them, and IMHO you are currently walking a fine line.

We all know that you are not happy with a capped service- you have made that quite clear, so i think emphasising and repeating that on this forum will not get you anywhere. Perhaps you need to take the complaints up with ntl in hope for a resolution, or alternatively, seek an alternative ISP.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Can anyone please explain to me the reasoning behind business connections being *unlimited* during office hours, but costing the same per month?

I know there's a setup fee, but after that, the service is better, and you get far higher limits.

During business hours you can do 12GB a day, 5 days a week, and all of a sudden, in a single week, you've done what home users are allowed to do in two months. and you're ALLOWED to.

I don't understand the logic behind this difference in service level.

Maybe i'm missing something obvious, but why is there this difference in allowed transfer?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

May I add a bit about the comment made "as long as they dont effect my Usage" - Do we agree that only users connected to the same UBR will effect a person useage yes? For example, if I use my connection full on for week on end (which I dont btw, just saying) - I would not be effecting a person lets say in Nottingham right?

Maybe my area is rather quiet but if the network was in such a bad state, then I would have expereinced a lot of slow downs in my 4-5 years of having NTL, yet no, I have not - but hang on the network is in a mess aint it? How can they say in one breath that there is not enough bandwidth to go around one minute and the next offering a free upgrade to a lot faster speed, both download & upload - was it not mentioned that Upload was the main Cause as there is not enough of it yet now we have a higher upload limit?

FuD comes to mind, spread enough and make it seem like its in a mess, then something like a restriction does not seem as bad maybe?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I could be wrong, but I *think* you have to sign an 18 month contract for business.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

ntl like bt wholesale have costs of around 10-20p per gig, a user downloads 100gig it costs ntl £20 in bandwidth costs not £200. Of course it is a different matter if usage patterns are causing a ubr to be saturated and money is spent on upgrades, but even these upgrades are one of costs and so are can be recuparated. NTL are lacking a £50 product with a 150gig limit, and yes that is profitable for a isp of NTL's size.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

What? You don't have ADSL in Wales? Quick. Somebody tell Russ, his Pipex connection can't be working as the underlying technology it requires is not there..

Seriously. Unless you live in a remote area of Wales that doesn't have ADSL, then you have as much competition there as we do in England. The only difference is there are two cable companies in England. But, each has there own area (for instance, I live in an NTL cable area and cannot have Telewest). True, NTL ADSL is available in Telewest areas, but NTL cable isn't.

With ADSL, however, you DO have alternate ISPs.

Please do not assume that just because somebody does not have the same amount of downloads as you that they don't do anything. I've been using the 'Net (and WWW) since '94 (so I am an experienced user). I do all the stuff that people use as an excuse for breaking the 1G a day download limit like streaming, downloading game demos, OS (Windows XP, 2003, Mac OSX and Linux) patches and service packs, driver updates, antivirus updates and firewall updates, linux distros, xbox live. I sometimes even use VPN and Remote Desktop to connect to my machines at work. There is also one other user in my house. I rarely go through the 1 Gig cap though.

Just because you CAN download 24/7 doesn't mean you have to. Now, I am not saying what you should (or shouldn't) download - that's not my place. Nor is it NTL's unless it violates the Acceptable Usage Policy or Terms & Conditions of their service. The Cap HAS been in their AUP for several years now, so by continued use of the service, you have agreed to it (regardless of wether it was in force at the time you signed up)

Regarding my opinion of the cap? I have argued for the cap in the past (I can see the need for it, but I can also see that it could be a pain), but have stated that IF the cap becomes a problem, I will leave NTL. You are probably free to do the same.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

If we take the cost of 155Mbps CBC BT Central which is £316,20 0 per year, this equates to 52p per GB transferred. I know that this price includes a profit for BT and that LLU ISPs may have a lower cost per GB. The first thing to note though is that price per GB is only 52p if the pipe is running at 100% capacity 24/7/365. Naturally if it is 100% utilised there will be contention issues for users who are routed through it. There are also many other costs involved which include such things as provision and maintenance of equipment which increase as the volume of traffic increases.

Where customers are placed geographically and their usage patterns affect the cost of providing the service. It is a constant battle by NTL to keep the network running at optimum levels so that customers are not unduly affected by changes in usage patterns and they do that very well. This can only be done by having sufficient capacity to deal with these changes which means that costs have got to be higher than what they would be with 100% utilisation.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

so saying running costs per customer per month is say £10 (plucked out of the ether lol ) a 3 meg customer downloading 30 gig at 52p per gig = £15.60 thats £12 possible profit per customer per month,Ukonline are offering 8 meg with 500 gig limit starting in my town by end of this month ,bye bye ntl me thinks even if i get a drop off cuz of distance im still onto a winner woohoo lol lol.

Ive seen a lot about abusers and breaking the law etc I just hope that everyone who has the opinion of piracy (which is what we are talking about abusers downloading going over the cap) has never watched a copied dvd,or bought bootleg vodka or beer or bootleg tobacco of copied a cd off a friend or installed xp pro from dubious sources, the list is endless,Im sure theres very few on here who are totaly clean and innocent :D

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I've read the majority of this thread (it gets boring in work sometimes :rolleyes: ) and I'll continue to stand by my thoughts...
1Gb is a little harsh for people who share their connection to other PCs in the same house. 2Gb is much better and something you could surely only break by getting linux distros and things of an "illegal nature".

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I didnt say i couldnt get ADSL, like i said bulldog offer 2mb for £2 more than NTL. Firstly I dont like ADSL over Cable and secondly i dont consider paying £2 more for the same service Competition.
__________________

Of course i run a HTPC on my main TV which streams music and music videos directly from the net. However im sure some people here will argue that if you have two PCs that are both heavily using the internet we should be paying for two internet connection :td:
__________________

yes i was talking about ukonline earlier... you see if i had this option where i live... then dam straight i wouldnt give NTL a second looking. But NTL no theres no competition .... there was competition until they up'd there speeds but the fact is thats as far as it went. Compared to england and the competitive ADSL speeds NTL are "lagging" behind... :td:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Ok then, apart from that. I'm not talking about contractual differences, i'm just wondering how they can offer businesses such a far more useable service, for the same money each month.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

The business price is ex VAT so it is not the same money it - add 17.5% to the business numbers.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

It is not the same service- bulldog is not capped, so this is not a direct comparison.


PLEASE stop comparing ENGLAND to WALES! this is not a fair comparison!! the ukonline speeds are only available in in certain areas, eg central london, not the whole of England!

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

NTL 2mb has no cap either :rolleyes:

Only 1mb will be hard capped later this year.......

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Are you sure of that? I think you will find you are wrong, but then I may be wrong. :)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

1Mb has a 3Gb a month download limit
2Mb has a 1Gb a day download limit
3Mb has a 1Gb a day download limit

AFAIA, no connection is intended on being a forced cap in the near future. I think NTL's reason for that is because they would lose a lot of customers having their connection speed capped (or even stopped!) when they reach the limit.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

??

My understanding was that there is a 1GB a day 'usage policy' on 2 Meg, only NTL will only take action if you exceed it and it effects other users. But they still can if you do and it does. Can't be mithered to post a link to the terms & conditions ... ;)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

lol, no point... its been quoted on every page through this thread I'm sure.

I said download limit on my previous thread... was trying to think of a less forced comment... "usage policy" is right :)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Couldnt agree more :)
Good Post.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian@huth Are you sure of that? I think you will find you are wrong, but then I may be wrong. :)

I'm sure!

Quote:

Originally Posted by cookie_365 ?? My understanding was that there is a 1GB a day 'usage policy' on 2 Meg, only NTL will only take action if you exceed it and it effects other users. But they still can if you do and it does. Can't be mithered to post a link to the terms & conditions ... ;)

Exactly! No hard (or otherwise) cap for 2 & 3mb just a 1GB a day 'usage policy' and they will only take action if you constantly exceed it and it affects other users............ Hardly a cap.

__________________

1mb will have a hard cap later in the year.....

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Running web and game servers is not what I'd call "normal usage" (and obviously not what ntl call it either).

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

And what about hosting a game server on xbox live? That's definitely supported by NTL, and is therefore normal usage.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I don't see the problem here :confused:
Ntl have not enforced a 'strict cap' as yet or so i am led to believe.
Well....this is a quote from the ntl usage allowance faq:



Pretty self explanatory to me.
I presume the same goes for the 1 gb a day cap. I am not worried about going over the cap, if people want to then they won't really lose out, they may just have to pay extra money, or upgrade.:Peaceman:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Hehe we can get technical about that; it depends if Avatar was running a dedicated game server all day, everday. That is completely different from using XBox to host a game.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I guess so, but it would still be easy to go over your 1GB/day limit with some gaming, browsing, downloading and stuff. 1GB ain't all that much these days.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

true. Web sites are bigger. they contain more videos. Sony wants to make DVDs available for download etc etc. the internet is moving on, NTLs caps are moving back.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I did read your post carefully. So, Ntl are doing the responsible thing aren't they - trying to stop people doing the 'wrong' thing and putting a limit on what people can download/upload. Therefore they are the ones trying to do the right thing. Your point kind of works in the opposite then....

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

exactly what ive been thinking for a while.
Any large downloads that I get I leave to go overnight anyway. I'm actually going to download debian tonight if I remember before going to bed as I wouldnt mind learning a bit about that for a job I'm looking at applying for. (Off topic - Anyone know which debian release would be best to try?)

When I do download large things like this, I always tend to do it overnight as less people are using the network so it should go through without any problems. Surely NTL will be taking this into account with people before they send out the letters?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

exactly how illegal is it to download television programs, and is it one of these things that are highly being chased up, with groups prosecuting people...

I don't just mean the law... but is it widely countered... i mean technically its illegal to record a program on vhs, then lend to someone else, or keep a copy of it to watch over and over again... but this isn't exactly someone gets arrested for knower days...

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

like i say, i am not convinced ntl are going to be enforcing such a strict cap that everyone seems to be worried about.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

TV programmes... I suppose its down to the people who made the programme.
I was looking at football sites earlier and they had some goals for download. However, Granada TV had banned the site from allowing Liverpool and Arsenal goals from being hosted because of Granada's dealings with each club.

Its similar to using a VCR, but I suppose the sharing aspect of it could be frowned upon.

I'm sure you'll get the snipers on here out for your neck for using bandwidth on large illegal files and you're making everyone else's internet lives a nightmare etc etc etc (sorry, couldnt resist... I'm sure I'm not the only one to have noticed this)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Our license fees pay for the BBC content. If i miss a show, i should be able to download it. I've paid for it. Other providers, that's another matter.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

1gb really isnt a lot thesr days, I subscribe to ign.com insider channel mainly for the video reviews of games, each one can be about 250mb long. Thats a quarter of my download limit gone.

the only thing i do is to download those over night, especially if they have any extra large ones like 500+mb. If this really is unnaceptable to NTL, then i would have to move as its not illegal videos or warez etc.

I dont know what caps i have on comcast in the place in dallas, but i know i get a 6mb/768 for less money!

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

True... but things like Neighbours (if people still watch it) is owned by some Aussie channel, so that kinda thing would be exempt from that I'm sure as the copyright etc is owned by someone else.
BBC's own programmes I'm sure would come under your theory though... cant say 100% though.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Would you be happy for your licence fee to go up to cover the costs of the BBC buying the bandwidth at the other end?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Downloading TV that is shown on free to air channels is not strictly illegal I think, Anime is another debatable one, porn is legal and can come in full length movie size, Music videos are legal, Movie trailers are legal, TV streaming is legal, Online Radio channels are legal, Transferring digital camcorder footage is legal, Transferring high quality family photos is legal, Downloading Apps/Linux isos is legal, Downloading Games can be legal eg. steam, Downloading game demos is legal, Backing up your hard drive to gmail is legal :) , the list is endless it took me 30 secs to think of this lot.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I know the MPAA or whoever aint gonna come knockin at your door for backing your HDD up to gmail, but gmail may terminate your account if you fill their mailbox up quickly :p:

As for TV programmes... BBC wont be hosting the programmes, its usually hosted by individuals on websites etc, so BBC wont have to pay for bandwidth, therefore could let it go that people are downloading their programmes instead of watching it on TV when it was originally on.
As for programmes like Friends and ER which are re-transmitted on Channel 4 - they may not be legal to download... Friends in particular as it is available on DVD. ER isnt owned by Ch4, so like I mentioned Neighbours earlier... same could apply.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I think you'll find your licence fees pay for the right to watch the show on a BBC controlled source (such as a TV channel, website etc). I read somewhere that even videoing a show is slightly dodgy, although tolerated.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I don't even know what you're asking here.

What bandwidth? Why would the BBC be paying for it? The other end of what?

My license fee pays for the creation of many bbc-made tv shows, radio shows, documentaries etc.

I've got to pay the license fee, even though i've not listened to the radio for months. I don't watch cbbc or cbeebies, yet i'm paying for them. I don't mind. I like the BBC content. BBC3, in particular, shows some excellent comedy. I'm not always about to watch it though. Sure, i'll set it to record, but i can only record one channel at a time, and if there's something on another bbc channel, at the same time, that i want to see, i can't. So if i can, i download it.

My flatmate was out when Doctor Who Ep2 was on. I downloaded it. All is well.

Downloading things from a commercial tv station (Friends, the bill, fifth gear etc) is on dodgy ground, because these stations rely on you watching the shows, and the ads, and that's where they get their money, advertising revenue. If you're downloading a show, the ads have been cut out, so you're not watching them, but the same could be said for having recorded the show, and fast forwarding through the adverts.

I will not watch adverts where possible. I'll pause TV for 5 minutes, then resume it, so i can fast forward through adverts when they appear. I don't want to see michael ****ing winner, bank tellers singing, or to be told about the wonders of canestan, thankyou.

I download TV shows, because i want to be able to watch them when i want, not have it dictated to me by marketing men and analysts, just because the show appeals to a certain type of person who watches at such and such a time, or just because it's been scheduled to compete with a rival station's flagship show.

I download TV shows because i'm impatient, and don't want to wat 6 months for them to be shown here. If i care about something enough to watch and download every episode, i'll buy the DVDs when they're released. Like Lost. ;)

I download TV shows because they might not even BE shown over here.

TBH, i don't CARE about the legality of it, but in the BBC's case, i think it's morally acceptable, and that's what matters to me.

I'm not talking about what rights the BBC afford us. They take our money whether we watch their services or not. They make shows with our money. They don't get money from advertising, etc. We pay for it. I'll do what i want with it. Their lawyers can contact me if they want me to stop. ;)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

The BBC don't need to provide any bandwidth; it is all done on p2p.

(edit - beaten to it :o)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Calm down dear, its a commercial ;)

Pausing or fast-forwarding through adverts is only the same as old people making a brew half way through corrie init? Neither people will see "Michael ****ing Winner" (which is probably a good thing...)

P2P however is a grey area for usage on NTL.
Torrents will only be a great idea (imho) if there is a stable place for things but people find a hosting spot for torrent files, and you end up with non-legal items which cause the sites to get closed.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Yeh but, No but...
This is maybe fair for UK use of the BBC output - as you have paid for it in your licence fee, but it would cannibalise their revenue stream for selling this stuff to TV stations in other parts of the world - why should an American in the US be able to watch eastenders on line for free when you have paid your licence fee to get it made?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Is'nt eastenders shown there? Either way, i get what you're saying. That's down to the yanks behaving though. I don't see why i should be deprived of the opportunity to watch something i funded.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

If people want to bring up fairness why should people pay a licence fee to pay for things like bbc3 which are not universally available.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

thats true... there are only 4 channels avaible here :(.... others get over 30 for the same liecence fee....

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

It is but a US TV station has paid for the rights to broadcast it - a factor taken into consideration in the revenue streams of the BBC (or BBC Worldwide). Why would that company pay this fee (to be covered by advertising revenue) if the viewers were not watching it there but on the web.
Anyway as you said you get it.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

what is the problem? if you want to watch eastenders then watch it like everyone else does. dont argue about whether it is right or wrong to download it.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Well - I dont know about anyone else, but Myself the wife and kidz (we all have PC's) use the internet for web radio & watching internet TV. Some times we dont even close these apps down. Why would I - its an always on service (remember!!!)
I'm talking high quality streams too, and we have 4 PC's, that surf all at the same time - quite alot of the time.

Now as you can imagine I'm sure I go over this 1GB limit. You should remember that NTL as an ISP, is not the only provider I can use, its just the choice at this moment in time.

So Now you have your answer - SHUT UP!

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

No linux distros??? :rofl: :rofl:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

ive just been looking at this thread http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...ad.php?t=26900a lot of people have been here looking trying to access it some im sure who have said things about piracy and cap etc, now if this guy has paid for the rights to stream this ill be a monkeys uncle(if im wrong ill pick my a**e and swing from a tree) If he does not have the right he and anyone streaming it is breaking copyright and one of those much derided on this forum. I admit it ive been there and watched some.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Hell no - Linux is crap. Why use that ?

I am not justifying my heavy internet use, - I dont need to.

The man asked for a legitimate reason, and I gave one.

Bottom line it - to give something with one hand and then take it away with the other, is something we all expect from the government, but not from a ISP that needs our money.

Looks to me that they cant really afford to do what they have done. So the question is why do it?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Looks to me (and them) that they can't afford not toooooo :D

So the question is why not do it?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

There is only one reason I can think of and that is competition.

NTL make speeds faster so people can download quicker.
NTL add a "usage policy" (I wont use the word cap as its not an enforced limit (yet)) to get people to reduce their usage

So... you get a faster connection, and download at full speed... on a 2mb, after a few hours, you've reached your cap, so you stop using the internet for that day.

What else to do for the rest of the day? I suppose it would decrease the amount of dirty cars on the roads as people would have more time to wash them. Perhaps NTL should get a sponsorship deal with Turtle wax or auto-glym or something...

With NTL being a provider for specific areas in the UK, people tend to use them purely because its easy for most to get everything from one place. 1 company to deal with... 1 bill to pay at the end of the month etc. That is why people use NTL purely, not because they offer 3Mb to compete with other people. I would be perfectly happy with a 512k downstream and a 256k upstream connection for x amount a month (say £25 > £30 like it used to be) and not have to watch my usage.

If you look through this thread, there are plenty of genuine reasons for going over 1Gb a day (and I'm not talking about Linux here).
At the end of the day, those downloading things they shouldnt be doing... you know who you are and NTL also know who you are (they can see where your connections are pointing to... I'm sure its all logged for a period of time). If NTL thinks your usage is detrimental (sp?) to their network then they will take action accordingly and you will have only yourself to blame. You cannot fool someone who has the facts down on paper in front of them, and "it was my dog" kind of excuses wont work anymore ;)

If NTL made more of an effort to make the most of what they have and THEN (and only then) add to it, I'm sure their existing customers would be happier with the overall service provided rather than stamping their feet that they could get xMb from x company for x amount cheaper. If they really want that, then they can have it... just not with NTL.

edit: by the way, I'm not saying it's all NTL's fault for the situation being that it is... it would help if people didnt used these chipped boxes to get their free telly or whatever else - these people are depriving NTL of money they deserve and should be getting to pump back into their piggy bank for making the service better.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Here's your NTL Ferrari, you can do 200mph. (bandwidth)

Here's your £1 of petrol. (cap)

Enjoy.

NTL.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

If you look at the BT, Wanadoo and tiscali bandwidth limits and compare with ntl's - ntl still comes out on top.

However when ntl start introducing bandwidth caps, they should be peak-time caps, so that your usage is limited during the day/evening but is unlimited at night. As that is the true purpose of the limits.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Aye, unlimited usage at evening time would be better and cap it (1gb) during the day between say 7am and 10pm. Most people download the bigger files overnight as they hate waiting.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

"Here's your NTL Ferrari, you can do 200mph (bandwidth).
Here's your Hightway with speed limit 200mph.
Please don't drive any farther than 1 mile per day (no cap just a guide).
If you do and you keep doing it AND your excessive use of highway stops others using the NTL Ferrari we will have to ask you not to use so much."

That's more like it.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Well, to continue with the ridiculous car analogy, it actually works out that you can do about 160 miles.

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Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

the reason the car analogy doesn't work, is because it is not possible to allow the car to continue while the driver is absent.

With broadband you can set up your downloads & walk away & leave it running.

What might work is a train analogy - i.e. with a 'dead man' switch - as soon as you leave your pc it shuts off :p: :D

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

:tu: :D

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

All i can say is get a mini and £1.00 goes a lot further....

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

could always stick a brick on the accelerator and jump out? :P

Getting a mini using this car analogy is like dropping to the slower package to make the cap last longer. However, the 1Mb connection has a 3Gb cap per month which is worse... like having 20p worth of petrol in the mini ;)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Just pondering another solution for the congestion problem. I'm not sure how techically possible this is, but is it possible to make one users traffic 'low priority' traffic. In other words their packets would only get delivered if no non-low priority packets are being delivered.

If so, then after a given user has used their limit for the day, they don't get their speed reduced, but they get put onto the low-priority list for the remainder of that day.

That way if there's no congestion they will still get their 3MB, but if the pipe fills up it will be the heavy users that will get degraded service first. Only if the pipe is totally filled by non low-priority customers will they see any degradation (which should be rather rare). And if that does happen the heavy users will basically be shut out of the net altogether (til it quietens down a bit)

A more advanced solution would be to allow a user that's gone over the daily limit a small amount of normal priority traffic (say 56K worth), with the balance being low-priority traffic. That would be harder to do, but would be nicer on the heavy users, allowing them to do normal email/browsing even at peak-time congested periods.

Is this feasible at all. Would anyone go for it?

--Rakhal

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Could it be done? Probably if the hardware has QoS parameters that could be easily changed, realistically it would be difficult.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

How would they enforce this? It seems a difficult solution to a problem they have already found their own preferred fix for (a "usage policy"). They'd need the UBRs (or connected devices) to monitor each connection and then sort out priorities. Would be easier to force a slower connection and I think they'd go for that in the long run.

I think so anyway...

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Well, monitoring they'll have to do anyway, if they want to introduce a 'hard' cap. Something must know when you've hit the limit in real-time so your connection can be cut/slowed down in a timely manner. All that would change is that instead of cutting/slowing your connection, your connection is made 'low priority' instead. The only question is, does the UBR hardware support the concept of traffic priority?

The reason I sort of like this is that it will actually reduce peak-time congestion. Heavy users will automatically get shunted as the bandwidth required increases and the normal users should only rarely see a degradation on their service. Especially since peak-time tends to be in the evening, when the heavy users have likely already used their gig for the day.
Also if for some reason 'off peak' periods become congested as well, the same effect will automatically apply, so you don't get the problem of a free-for-all period making the network unusable for light users.
On the plus side foe heavy users, if the network is NOT congested they can blast away as much as they like (may have to add a small external transfer charge if the amount they transfer incurs unreasonable charges to NTL due to this)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Oh dear, sounds like someone doesn't use broadband to it's full use :rofl:

It is also like..

Here's your NTL Ferrari, we know you travel 100 miles to work but now you can only do 50, we know we take your money for 'broadband' but you'll have to walk the rest.

Sounds as bad as it is. I'll use it when and how I like untill they kick me off. Then I'll go to an ISP who treats broadband as advertised.
__________________

Just out of curiosity. You know all these other companys that are doing proper uncapped broadband. How come they can do it so easily? Why are the likes of UK Online blowing NTL away with proper broadband?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

One thing that you have to remember is that cable and xDSL use different technologies with different capabilities. What is possible on one may not be possible on the other with current infrastructure and financial constraints. This situation will change over time as will usage restrictions.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Isn't UK Online subsidised (sp?) by the govt anyway? I know the govt has done a lot with the UK Online name with things like education and job training...

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I thought they were two separate entities - one (the private ISP) being particularly annoyed that the govt had hijacked their name.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

To be honest, I'm not sure... :confused: ;)

Always thought they were the same.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I do and don't like caps either but I'm realistic :p:

And if I didn't what is so funny? I hardly think people who don't max out thier BB are missing something major :rolleyes:

Nonsense! :p:



Because they want customers and will soon change their tune when they have more customers and start to look at making money from it :p:

And the 'NTL busting' speeds are only available in small areas...

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

That'll be why NTL are trialling ADSL2 technology of speeds upto 18Mb then... tease the public into getting it, making it seem indispensible then whap a "usage policy" on it when they realise people are (ab)using it...

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Same here.. BTW, I do also use broadband to it's full potential..

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Indispensible? :rofl:

People want more speed, they are looking in to achieving it the easiest way (and therefore cheapest) and you think they shouldn't because they are going to try and make some money out of it?? Fancy that..... a business trying to make money.

Maybe it's a way to raise the available bandwidth and so end caps

:D :D :D

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

New customers benefit from limited introductory offers only......

I hardly think 18mb ADSL2 would be an introductory offer :D

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Small areas? Like..almost all of London, Edinburgh, Bristol, Manchester, Glasgow, Sheffield, Newcastle, Birmingham, Leeds, Reading..

Yeah, all those places out in the stix ;)

http://www.ukonline.net/8000/llu_exchangelist.php

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

My point is if companys like UK Online can offer it, why can't NTL?

All this capping goes against everything that broadband is about. There should be a new term like 'Capped broadband' that companys should have to use if they're going to shackle their customers.

I did a test on my girlfriends computer that's about to be shackled by BT and managed 60 gig in a month. Not bad when the cap is going to be set at 30 and I didn't run the same test on the other four computers linked to the network to get a real total. Now if only they set these caps to a reasonable ammount.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I'm talking about the speeds that are higher than the speeds NTL offer that's why I said 'NTL busting' speeds :rolleyes: and yes they are only available in small areas.

I live in Manchester fairly close to my local BT exchange and the fastest ADSL I can get is maybe (further tests required)2mb.....

;) ;) ;) + :p:

:angel:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

But 8mb IS faster than the max ntl do, I don't think you can deny that.
UKOnline claim 4.4million homes covered and at £29.99, i don't think you can really beat that.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

If 8mb is avail to 4.4million like I said small areas

The total number of homes in the UK is about 25 million, 20 million of these are in England.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

8mb is available in my town now,I live in Nuneaton in warks near coventry which I add does not have it,All i gotta do is wait till bt reactivates my line

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

And unless I'm very much mistaken (very likely :D ) I think you'll find that while 4.4 million homes can obtain services from 8mb capable exchanges most of the homes are not close enough to reach 8mb...

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

2mb 8mb, whatever, it's uncapped proper broadband. Broadband as it's meant to be. Do whatever you want. NO CAPS.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Sign up then..................

See you back at NTL though when they start capping (best reserve http://www.ukonlineHELL.net ) and their ADSL can't keep up with NTL's 10-12mb or what ever the next few upgrades bring us.

If I could get 8mb uncapped ADSL for £29 I'd be gone by now and if it arrives here soon I will. I'd make sure it was a short minimum contract though as I think NTL will try and beat all of it's main competitors on speed and usage allowance (BT etc). I'd be straight back to NTL if and when it was a better deal.

I certainly would not be moaning all the time about caps that don't even exist.

Even when they do start capping the 1mb it is aimed people who don't need more than 3gig mth and want the speed for what little they do......

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

ukonline already cap, the cap is at 500 gig. Considering the max possible on 8mbit is around 2.4TB, they will be cutting out a lot of potential 24/7 abuse still.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

This is just what we need

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/index.cfm...view&news=4665

A price war :D

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

omg, a tenner... thats pretty good that :)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

heh they forgot to mention its more then just £7. BT and NTL also have usage limits. ukonline doesnt.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

they do on their 8Mb, so the 512k doesnt? The deal reads even better now ;)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Except it says 'from £9.99'. When I see if it's available it quotes £19.99,

Hmm, 25% of the speed for 80% of the price of NTL - not quite a price war then :erm:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

:rolleyes:

Obviously the site isn't ready for the price cuts yet.

I don't even know when the offer starts but start it will!

UKOnline offers 512KB broadband for £9.99 :tu:

How on earth can you look at that and make out it's not good news :confused:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Site is fine, in areas where Easynet haven't installed their own equipment into the exchange the prices are:

500k/250k £19.99/mth
2000k/250k £29.99/mth

Both uncapped.

Where Easynet have their equipment:

500k/250k £9.99/mth
2000k/250k £19.99/mth

Both uncapped

8000k/500k £29.99/mth 500GB/mth fair usage.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Oh I see.................

I think :D