Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

The technology is the broad direction of travel, but it’s an evolution not a revolution.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Possibly a case of 'slowly, slowly catchy monkey' - it will probably happen one day but not in my lifetime.

Biggest problem is broadband speed - whilst this is good for some the vast majority have problems downloading anything let alone HD and UHD live TV.

There is little sign of this changing in the short or medium term

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

It's a slow death, old chap. It will happen.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

In the year dot l suppose....

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Streaming will be dead by then we will just get plugged directly into a Matrix type system. With the technological singularity in the early 2040s it’s touch and go if linear tv dies out before life as we know it.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

On the contrary, streaming will take over live sports events once all the glitches are resolved and superfast broadband covers the whole country.

In the US, the prospect of diminishing value of advertising is said to be imminent, and the shift to streaming of major sports events is not far off.

https://www.rapidtvnews.com/20190118...#axzz5cze188Y3

EXTRACT

At the heart of this fall, argued the analyst, was US broadcasters making their advertising more and more expensive to satisfy their shareholders. Yet it felt that this rate of price increases could not be sustained.

Rethink believes this strategy will come home to roost in a collapse in advertising value late in 2019 and early in 2020. At the same time, the market is likely to experience a double whammy in the face of more US homes cutting the cord, resulting in fewer pay-TV homes, and more and more advertising opportunities with long form digital virtual MVPDs and others. The result will be fewer viewings, watched less often leading to a weak market and uncertainty and this in turn will likely lead to sports rights shifting to online properties and in some cases “going it alone” in a direct-to-consumer strategy.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Really, you are optimistic OB.

It could well be decades before broadband speeds are high enough over the country for streaming of live sports to take a hold

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

From the very same website:

https://www.rapidtvnews.com/20181122...#axzz5d8LQSqHX

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

One is in anticipation of OB's reply.;)

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I’ll be wrong. Obviously. :dunce:

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

That's right, my earlier link was about the US, and where they go, we will follow. I have never said we will see a mass reduction in pay tv channels this year, mine was a longer term prediction. However, we will be seeing the first signs of this future trend in the short to medium term, I believe.

Relevant paragraphs in that link were:


Main insights unveiled in the Yearbook which surveyed 41 countries were that the total number of households subscribing to pay-TV continues to increase with IPTV’s share of pay-TV subscribers up to 25%, yet with cable stagnating over the last five years, and satellite growth grinding to a halt.

Pay on-demand revenues in the region in the 2018 period grew on average by 45% per year between 2013 and 2017 and main was driver for growth was subscription VOD, with a 74% average annual growth rate. Subscription video-on-demand accounted for nearly three-quarters (72%) of revenues while transactional VOD retail was found to be growing faster than rental and accounts now for 42% of TVOD revenues.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Nice to see your definition of "mine was a long term prediction" when there were countless predictions by you before that encompass the last few years , now and the next few years as you seem to be moving the goalposts as to when it suits you..

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

None of that really supports your claims if cable and satellite are still in the background with huge numbers. There’s always been a gap in the market of people outside the cable network and not allowed a dish - IPTV closes that gap.

Pay on demand revenues presumably reflect the change by Sky (and I assume others using Sky/NDS based set top technology) moving from near VOD to genuine VOD in their hardware. This change has allowed them to show far more content on demand as well.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I think you have mis-spoken again, Den. Since when has 2035 been regarded as short to medium term?

I have said that we will notice the number of channels reducing over the next 5 or so years - is that what you are referring to? Otherwise, I'm not sure what you are talking about, to be honest.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I remember that article and that is a great find! :)

Like the V6's offerings today, the NTL VOD offering fell far short of its potential, hampered by the tech and limited choice.

Streaming, if done properly, blasts the old VOD systems out of the water and will lead to the decline, in my opinion, of the bulk of linear tv.

BTW: Has anyone mentioned here that Netflix posted their latest results the other day and they have added millions more customers? Streaming will lead to the death of most linear tv, although as that article shows, it is hard to predict when that will happen.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Developments in viewing preferences in the US are telling.

https://www.tvbeurope.com/tvbeverywh...uper-bowl-liii

68 per cent of respondents said they will use some other media platform to engage with Super Bowl content while watching. 78 per cent will use social media; 30 per cent will use group chats; 28 per cent will visit sports websites and 15 per cent will access online forums.61 per cent of respondents said they would not miss cable TV if forced to give it up forever.

Additionally, 64 per cent plan to cancel their cable subscriptions at some point in favour of streaming content; 41 per cent said they will do so this year.60 per cent said their reason for transitioning to streaming was to save money; 43 per cent was to watch on their own schedule; 43 per cent to binge watch TV; 36 per cent to avoid traditional TV commercials; and 27 per cent said to get to the content they prefer. (Respondents could choose more than one reason.)

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

As with any polling data the devil is often in the detail.

https://www.adtaxi.com/blog-roll/201...crease-year-45

We had a similar story last year. Clearly they’re using the event to drum up interest and clicks in their stories. They are also a digital marketing company so not exactly unbiased with regards to how they wish to portray reality (and the future).

Cable TV in the USA must be doing an excellent job if 61% of their user base essentially don’t want the product yet continue to pay every month.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

People get set in their ways and it takes a lot to jolt them out of complacency. I know a few people who constantly complain of not having anything to watch. But they don't record much, don't subscribe to a streaming service instead or do anything at all about it. They just continuoisly complain about having nothing to watch.

So it does not surprise me at all that there is that level of dissatisfaction amongst cable subscribers with scheduled pay tv services in the US. It is probably much the same over here, too, judging by the comments people make to me.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

"3 out of 4 respondents (75%) will be tuning in to this year’s Super Bowl."

Last year, 31.7% of the US population tuned in. So is something really compelling planned for this year, or is the poll suspect? :erm:

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

https://www.adtaxi.com/blog-roll?cat...ress%20Release

Oh dear...

It'd be more interesting to see a representative sample, or even just a sample less likely to use Survey Monkey.

Hugely suspect I'd imagine, given the above, but they're probably applying the same logic we hear when "1 billion people watch the Wimbledon final" and the figure is based on everyone they expect to see more than 30 seconds of it (such as in a news bulletin).

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

From my own experience of watching the Super Bowl over the last 42 years, its a once a year occasion that cannot be repeated, the draw is incredible and the fees advertisers pay are outrageous. The half time show is put on to draw non football fans, however, this year they have had trouble getting a big act for political reasons. It will be interesting to see if it effects viewing figures.

Over the years our viewing has changed, we still watch the Linear broadcast , but we both have computers we use during the game for social media and stats. We could go the streaming route ,but we have found the service unreliable at times.
Biggest night of the sporting calendar for us with the added bonus of my sons team the Rams being in the Game.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I think you will need to explain what these 'countless predictions' you are talking about were. It's not my goalposts that are moving, it's your powers of recollection!

I find it quite astounding that some of you on this thread can simply ignore all the evidence from various sources in the media press and the industry itself and stick rigidly to your theories that the status quo is here to stay, with no supporting evidence whatsoever!

Just to be clear, studies are showing that linear viewing of ad-supported TV is not going to grow. As audiences shift to on demand viewing, advertising revenue on our conventional broadcast channels will reduce until ultimately they will no longer be profitable to run in this way. The number of viewers watching OTT services is increasing substantially year on year. The number of SVOD services is also increasing, providing even more viewer choice and showing more starkly the lack of good content on our conventional channels. There are countless links on this and other threads on Cable Forum that demonstrate this.

And your evidence is...?

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

It’s not for me, or anyone else on this thread, to prove that tried and tested profitable business models for free to air, or pay tv, will stand up.

Millions of households consume their television this way, including the vast majority of those who additionally subscribe to streaming services.

Advertising models have survived Sky+ and TiVo based products becoming the standard. The burden is on streaming to challenge the market, not the other way round. Sky are the best placed company to provide any such services in the future and at present have no intention of moving beyond a combination of both.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

There is obviously no compulsion to corroborate your views, but if you keep challenging people who do, without adding links or anything else to justify your position, then I am sure that readers of this forum will make their own judgements on negative contributions.

Nobody is challenging what is happening right now, and indeed millions are still watching linear TV, but the trends are already beginning to confirm predictions being made in respect of the future.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I think the problem is you simply aren't being objective about the subject matter any longer.

Of 29 threads you've started on this forum five have been pretty much pushing the same subject.

2015: https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...php?t=33699901
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...php?t=33700639

2017: https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...php?t=33705428 - it's not exactly the same but cord cutting gets a link from Rapidtvnews of all places.

(this thread - 2017) https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...php?t=33705051

2018: https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...php?t=33707196
which was closed because you keep opening threads on the same thing.
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...8&postcount=27

Your previous link which referenced the Superbowl was discredited because the number of people intending to view the game was in no way comparable with the proportion of the US population who actually do.

However, it presented a further problem, which favours the continued existence of traditional TV. Those who watch events (not just sporting events) and interact with social media, WhatsApp, friends rely on doing so simultaneously which only broadcast linear television can supply. That's gold to advertisers seeking a demographic during programming like I'm a Celebrity, X Factor, Britain's Got Talent, etc.

Your own example from NBC I have demonstrated as Comcast selling their content end to end via other Comcast companies. You haven't demonstrated how it is distinguishable from an existing Comcast product - Now TV - or that it doesn't favour Sky remaining the market leader in this country.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

The threads I've started have changed the emphasis on the nature of the debate. For example, the decline of linear channels is not the same as the trend in the US to skinny bundles, and cord cutting has a different emphasis again. The reason I started the 'future of tv' thread which got closed was because I wanted to talk about the changes that may be coming but not necessarily focussing on linear TV. How all this leads you to conclude a lack of objectivity I don't get! What it does indicate is a consistent interpretation of the links I find.

You often talk about the future by referencing current viewing habits and you cite this as a reason things won't change in the future, which is an odd way of looking it it when the trends and developments in technology scream out the opposite.

You have a valid point in drawing attention to streaming problems currently, but again you are ignoring the fact that latency is one of the issues that they are working on now. The BBC has been doing a lot of work on this and a link I posted a while ago indicated that they now knew what to do to deal with this problem.

Incidentally, I am not saying as you suggest that Sky is on its way out, just that it will have to adapt, and that is exactly what it is doing. With Comcast taking the reins, this can only help Sky.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

If you go to websites that cite digital marketing companies as reputable sources then you will only find that digital marketing is the future.

The point I have to make has an incredibly low bar: that linear TV will exist in the future for longer than your conclusions based on dubious sources suggest.

The fact linear TV is hugely popular, despite the rise of DVRs, “on demand” and streaming services such is Amazon and Netflix only demonstrates how resilient it is.

If we agree that the BBC, Sky, Virgin, etc. will adapt their offerings then you have to demonstrate that the marginal cost of maintaining a linear presence isn’t cost effective and that if they did maintain both people wouldn’t continue to consume television across the full range. That’s a very high bar.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

But if the current trend continues, the linear channels will be much less used with time. Once again, you confuse the now with the future!

Just because some of the links I have provided are from marketing companies does not make them invalid. I would remind you that the BBC is planning for a 'no linear future' after the next licence fee review, so why you are so sceptical eludes me.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

You only need look in the US a high percentage of those who left cable/satellite TV still have a smaller bundle which includes linear TV the only difference being it's delivered over their broadband.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

The current trends rarely continue to infinity. Early adopters have far more enthusiasm than the population at large. Which is why, despite DVRs and on demand, linear still accounts for a sizeable chunk of broadcasting.

I’d be more interested if the BBC had a firm date for the end of linear broadcasting. However they don’t. Literally nobody does. Which is where you have to demonstrate that it’ll be no longer cost effective to maintain a linear presence when literally hundreds of channels manage it just now.

Even following through simple economics if there’s a reduction in linear channels the value of remaining advertising slots goes up as does the share of the remaining audience. You are trying to push the remaining audience figure down to zero, I’m only making the point that it’s unrealistic.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

The BBC is planning for an environment in which linear channels will have ceased broadcasting - that is the period 2028-2038. My prediction is based on 2035, so what's your point? Why must you have an exact date? I'm sorry, but I think you are being argumentative for the sake of it.

I am not saying at all that the linear TV audience will shrink to zero, that's you saying that. What I have said, consistently, is that audiences will eventually reach a level where it ceases to be economic or worthwhile to run them. You seem to be ignoring completely the ITV crisis of a few years ago, when the advertisement funding stream was drying up due to the lack of commercials. That's how fragile the whole system is.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Yet ITV survived the crisis.

The key part you (and your digital marketing sources) persistently fail to demonstrate is ceases to be economic or worthwhile. That level is tiny for someone who already owns and distributes the content via other means.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

ITV did survive the crisis, but it was a close call. If that is your argument, that ITV survived the crisis, it is an extremely weak one. It will certainly be a worse crisis if viewership continues to fall.

As far as your fixation with me having to 'demonstrate' everything to you is concerned, maybe you should ask the BBC why it disagrees with your proposition. They are certainly more authoritative than I am! Maybe instead, you can quote me the cost of running a linear TV channel like ITV. No, I thought not.

In the meantime, SVOD viewing continues to rise and rise.

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2019...ear-in-the-uk/

That's BARB, by the way, not a marketing company. :rolleyes:

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I suspect most people are watching Netflix etc instead of DVDs, Sky cinema and pay as you view films, not instead of normal TV channels

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

You have to “demonstrate” because you are the one making the claim throughout this thread and this forum that linear TV will cease. Whether I can quote the cost of running ITV is an irrelevance: ITV has content costs that it has whether or not it is viewed on their website, on catch up or on the linear channel. The additional cost of running the linear channel is demonstrably small: check any platform you like and there are hundreds of channels carrying out all of the associated tasks and broadcasting to tiny audiences.

To any major content provider like Sky, who heavily rely on other funding sources, the cost of maintaining their linear channels is tiny on top of all of the other content costs. The same will be true of ITV, Channel 4 or any other “free to air” broadcaster however they adapt to the future.

It’s helpful that you are using the BARB as a source, as it is credible, and reasonable growth for streaming is something I’ve never claimed will not happen. “Unidentified viewing” growing 16% to 19% is more realistic than the “160% growth (8% to 20%)” for Super Bowl streaming in your previous link.

How that 19% grows to 100% is the bit I have difficulty with.

The vast, vast majority of people could watch television without adverts now using their DVR but the evidence does not suggest most of those exclusively time shift their viewing to avoid advertising despite the technology at their fingertips. How do you move someone who “isn’t that bothered” into your streaming future? Or the type of person who bought a widescreen TV and used it to stretch a 4:3 picture? Sky (and Virgin) will continue to hoover up these subscribers through a combination of convenience and key content while offering streaming options alongside their current platforms.

Sky maintain all of their movie channels despite all of the library being on demand. They increased the number of Sports channels to give users the convenience of not having to use the red button so often.

Beyond all this it leaves one thing advertisers will be able to guarantee as streaming services grow. The minority of people left who still watch the majority of their content the “old” way will be very likely to be actually watching the breaks.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I think that what you are missing is the fact that we don't need to reduce the amount of viewing on linear channels to 0% before they are abandoned. A big shift in linear TV viewing has already happened and the number of hours people are spending watching on demand programming and streaming is continuing to increase. We are reaching a point at which conventionally broadcast channels will start closing down in significant numbers.

By the way, yet another report on this which notes that we are closer than ever to the 'inflection point'. Well within the period I have set out in my prediction.

https://advanced-television.com/2019...tipping-point/

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Think you will find a big split between young (watching streaming on their phones and tablets) and old (mainly way pitching linear to channels) generations.

As you have stated 'we are reaching a point at whivpch conventionally broadcast channels will start closing down in significant numbers' I presume the end of the world is nigh.

You cannot hide behind your interpretation of future.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I am not hiding behind anything. I have made it clear from the start that the demise of the linear channels will be complete before 2035. By then, the 50 year-olds of today will be newly retired. How many of them would be unable to handle on demand systems? By then, it will be much easier for them to be able to use the new streaming services anyway. There is no reason why EPGs in the future cannot give access to streaming services in the way they do to channels now. All the oldies without these skills will then have to do is choose the programme they want to watch. How is that difficult?

Incidentally, I do not consider that to be an 'end of the world event' as you put it, just the natural progression of things due to new technology and innovative developments.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I’m fairly confident that, due to confirmation bias, you will be able to dig up a similar article from a digital marketing company every other month between now and 2035.

I’m not missing any facts because you aren’t presenting any!

If you read the key details of the article this ‘inflection point’ relates to the cost effectiveness of advertising on television and return on investment. Like any market it will react accordingly and the cost of advertising on television will fall. Bad news for anyone solely reliant upon TV advertising (which I’ve never contested).

There’s nothing in there about how streaming eliminates linear TV altogether by 2035, or any other date.

Some programming suits linear television because it encourages participation with social media. Despite DVRs being near universal people still work to the TV schedule. There’s no explanation about how it moves across/incentivises people without broadband, or who at face value appear to just sit down pick something on now from their EPG.

There’s no indication at all that linear channels are ready to close in significant numbers as you put it.

As an aside: Sky Movies Comedy HD is showing Groundhog Day all day today. Every one hour and forty five minutes from 6am until 6.30am tomorrow. Some of these showings will get virtually (or perhaps actually) zero viewers. An efficient use of bandwidth? No, but bandwidth is cheap. If you own the content a gimmick like this costs next to nothing. The same principle applies to linear TV with a mixed funding model.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

https://www.uswitch.com/broadband/ne...wsletterWeekly

Kids between 5 to 15 prefer streaming ahead of linear TV. This is certainly reflective of how my 2 boys watch their cartoons and other content in the house. They are the next generation of content subscribers and they've made their choice early.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

It could be argued it's more a damning indictment of parenting.

"There's an iPad, go and sit in the corner while I watch the TV."

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

:hyper::hyper::shocked::shocked::gpoint:

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I think this is a wake up call for Virgin. It's time now to add more streaming services, including Prime, in bundles, with the TV channel bundles including a skinny bundle option. It seems that this would be very popular with the public as we near the time when conventional linear channels can be expected to start disappearing.

https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2019...m-tv-services/

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Oh dear one must be worried then!!!!!

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I can think of some linear channels which I (although I accept not others) would be happy to see disappear! :D

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

OB sounds more like an end-of-the-world prophet with each passing day :rofl:

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Nostradamus has a lot to answer for.;)

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Hardly! I see a bright future ahead. Hopefully Virgin will respond to developments more quickly and not let Sky and BT get there first.

Unfortunately, past experience leads me to the conclusion that we will probably be left trailing along behind again. But maybe this time it will be different. :erm: or not...

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Another day another article predicting the end of linear TV. I don’t see anything particularly worrying for Virgin in there.

The average consumer can’t cope with two bills. How will they cope without an EPG and relying on four of five different streaming apps to work out what’s worth watching?

As long as one of those bills is for broadband the existing triple play providers will be best placed to cut through this complexity and give consumers a wide range of content on their phones, tablets, laptops, games consoles and last but not least - televisions.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I don't think Virgin needs to be worried at all, they just need to be ahead of the game for once, particularly given their enthusiasm for all things on demand.

In the future, I would like to see a basics bundle of streaming channels including the BBC i-Player, the full versions of ITV Hub, All4 and My5 without advertisements, UKTV Play, Hayu, Pluto, together with other free streaming services, and a mega-bundle containing the likes of Netflix, Prime, StarzPlay, YouTube Premium, Disney +, Facebook Watch and Sky Boxsets (and with whatever Sky platform transpires as the successor to Now TV once the linear channels are abandoned) with just the one subscription and with the ability to bookmark all this content in 'My Shows'. No doubt, BT will also have a streaming platform in place that we could tap into.

There will, of course, be an interim period when both existing TV channels and SVOD services co-exist, but that is how I see things panning out. Hopefully, we will get a huge selection of streaming services - the best of the Roku channels!

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

You mean like we did with VOD, Netflix, YouTube and iPlayer?

Oh, hang on...

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

You are asking advertising funded broadcasters to provide their services for free, or advocating price rises so people can watch content they already can.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Another assumption, jfman. No, I'm not saying that, I am saying that Virgin should pay and include that cost in the subscription. Just like they have been doing for the main terrestrial catch-up services.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Do I detect a touch of realism here?

I will make a prediction that in 2035 we will still be waiting for high-speed broadband coverage to reach 80% of the country.

---------- Post added at 19:15 ---------- Previous post was at 19:14 ----------

If they do that they should make it an additional cost for those wanting to take these services.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I suspect it will happen before then, but via a wireless technology, not cables or fibre.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

It would relate to your subscription package, Raider.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

This all sounds dangerously close to the Eleven Sports model. Pray and hope an existing platform will offer you the oxygen to survive.

Your own link earlier today suggested people were at the end of their tether with increasing costs and less content.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

This post of yours does not make sense to me. What exactly has this to do with Eleven Sports? I think you need to explain this.

People are indeed fed up with paying so much for all those linear channels when there is so often nothing to watch.

Giving people the opportunity of watching so much good content via low cost subscription VOD services is the answer to this.

Things will move on. Consider the current system of conventional TV channels, which costs a small fortune for little good content, with all the stuff available on Netflix, Amazon, etc. In the future there will be no linear TV channels in the conventional sense, so you can exclude that cost.

How do you work out that this is a retrograde step? Please be explicit, because genuinely, I am not sure where you are coming from.

If you subscribe to Netflix, Prime and the Now TV entertainment and cinema passes, you are only shelling out less than £40 quid a month. Compare that with what we are currently paying out for cable/Sky channels now with little on that is worthwhile watching.

I think your emphasis is on sport, and I have not really addressed this in any detail. I would like to be more explicit about this, but sport is a much more complicated factor. However, in the end, I do think that normal competition forces will sort this out. Sky have been quite restrictive in terms of which platforms can watch their exclusive content. Although this draws sports fans to their platform, it ignores those who wish to view these events on other platforms. Media competitors such as Amazon and Disney can break down these barriers, which will increase viewership and increase revenues. Sky do recognise this fallibility in their approach, which explains the recent deal they have agreed with BT.

This is a rapidly changing environment and those that insist that the status quo will be maintained are not coming to terms with the changes that are about to engulf us all.

You can ignore this if you like, but I don't know why you would! Future developments are so much more exciting. Just look at the trends, man! You know it makes sense!

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Me neither, OB, another one of the head in the sand brigade.:rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 20:55 ---------- Previous post was at 20:50 ----------

Oh dear, shall we have a wee wager on that?

---------- Post added at 20:57 ---------- Previous post was at 20:55 ----------

Not a very good impression of the "average user" as you put it, its fairly simple to pay for what you want to watch, is it not?

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

People are at the end of their tether, but what they want is better quality content at less cost. That is what streaming services offer us.

I really don't understand the comparison you make to Eleven Sports, you will need to explain that to me!

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I have been saying for a long time now that the streaming services will replace linear TV channels over time.

Now it seems that one cable company, Ziggo, is considering the rationalisation of its cable channels due to changing customer demand.

If there are similar moves by other providers across the world, this should see off the less popular pay tv channels sooner than I expected.

https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2019...s-to-channels/

Dutch cable operator Ziggo is re-thinking carriage payments for linear channels as a consequence of changing viewing behaviour.

In an interview with Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf, Jeroen Hoencamp, chairman of the board of VodafoneZiggo, said that paying for linear channels is getting out of date.

“There is still a lot of linear viewing, but that is changing rapidly now that people are more likely to choose video on demand or to watch catch-up. This means that some content becomes less relevant and that translates into discussions with suppliers. The old model in which we pay broadcasters for distributing their channels is becoming outdated.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

All they need now is the suppliers to agree...

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Cable operator in trying to talk down the value of their suppliers shock.

On a separate note RIP Eleven Sports in the UK. I see La Liga rights are off to Premier Sports.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Another streamer bites the dust OB😱

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Whisper it quietly though..;)

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

In fairness they are stumbling on a little further, clearly La Liga have a watertight contract they can’t just hand back without consequences for the rest of their operations.

It begs the question can a streamer stand on it’s own two feet without a conventional pay-tv presence?

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

It can survive as long as Sky and/or Virgin Media carry its streaming service on their platforms. It doesn't have to be a conventional channel, though.

Eleven Sports has suffered a serious setback in the UK and frankly I can't see them rowing back from that. However, given their success elsewhere, I wouldn't rule it out altogether.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

l think you know the answer to that...

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

But without linear channels would there be a sky or Virginia to carry the streamers services - I seriously doubt it!

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

The streaming/on demand services will replace those channels over time. It would certainly simplify the EPG!

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

So they aren’t offering anything new, just the same old delivered in a slightly different manner. If you are relying on Comcast or Liberty to provide revenue streams you will have to fit their business model.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

It's the change in the method of delivery which appears to give the viewer a better choice of content.

So if I want to view good dramas and films, I might go to (according to our present choice) Netflix or Amazon, maybe StarzPlay. But if I want reality rubbish, I would probably go to Hayu.

In the future, we will have much more choice, so we will be able to pick out the streaming/VOD services that meet our needs.

This will be much more focussed on what we want, compared to the current situation where you have to pay for a multitude of channels you don't want.

Disney + and other services will cater for the kids, and there will be plenty of services catering for other genres.

Sport is the interesting one, and how this will play out is a matter for speculation.

I don't think Comcast and Liberty Global are the main players to watch, quite honestly!

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I smell the whiff of b...s...

---------- Post added at 23:37 ---------- Previous post was at 23:34 ----------

In all honesty, I would have thought sport was the biggest monespinner for a streamer.

If they can't make it pay then linear channels will be here for a long time - even if it's only for sport.

Don't forget the sky empire was built on their exclusive rights to premier league football

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

So they need the existing platforms to mark advance payments to them for minority interest content?

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I access Amazon Prime and Netflix directly on my Samsung TV. I can also access a handful of other streaming apps if I choose. A firmware update later this year should also add Apple TV to the line up. I don’t pay a subscription to Sky or Virgin for any bundles. I just buy what I want and, OB, if the future is truly on-demand as you argue, that’s the only way it’s going to work.

If Sky or Virgin have to bundle streaming services for those services to survive, those services have no more right to survive than the bundled linear channels that only exist because they’re thrust under your nose as part of a bundle.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I accept that there are alternative ways of viewing streaming services. I do this already, with my V6, my Amazon Fire stick, my Roku stick and my smart TV.

The way I see it is that by bundling streaming services, having one search facility and one watchlist for all of those services, there will be added value for the customer. It is far too tiresome to go to each streamer separately to look for content. I'm not saying that such bundling is to enable the streaming services to survive. What I am saying is that bundling will have advantages for the customer.

I see, by the way, that despite the dead hand of the Competition Commission, BBC and ITV are getting together to put in place an SVOD streaming service.

https://inews.co.uk/news/entertainme...classic-shows/

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Hang on ... you’re the one who’s been arguing all along that searching for content on streaming services *isn’t* tiresome, and once people get used to searching, the whole experience is so utterly wonderful that linear channels will die horribly.

Surely you’re not finally accepting that it’s a barrier to use, that you have to deliberately engage with a streaming service rather than just tuning in and flopping on the sofa? :scratch:

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I use Netflix occasionally but there is so much on it, it takes ages to settle down to watch what you want.
How much better after a hard day to click through your V6 recordings and within seconds watching something good. What a pleasant surprise when a new series of a favourite programme has appeared .
I want watching TV to be easy and relaxing.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Completely agree with all that, the majority of our viewing is done from recordings.

The V6 and Sky Q make it near impossible to miss your favourite shows these days and as you say the automatic recording of new shows is a real bonus.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

And when you don’t want to devote time to catching up with your favourite dramas, what’s even more relaxing is a linear schedule on a channel whose theme you’re generally interested in. Tune in and enjoy whatever’s there, no stress, no fuss.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Great points.
I find Netflix particularly painful.

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We can spend an age trying to find something to watch on it , another point is Netflix Originals are predominately American. most of its British content is third party content from the likes of the BBC and ITV.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

And the Wish List and search facilities can bring up all matter of little gems to watch as well.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

If all the content is brought together it certainly isn't tiresome. Nor is it when you are dealing with only one streaming service. But if you are dealing with many, it makes sense to centralise all your searches and watchlists, doesn't it?

You are making it sound like some vision of Utopia that I am promoting. I'm doing no such thing, I'm simply describing what I see as being the future for TV. It will happen, whether we like it or not. Surely you can see what is already happening out there.

Ridiculing the whole notion of the shift to VOD only services in a discussion forum will do nothing to change the way this is moving towards what I have been saying for the last four years.

---------- Post added at 07:14 ---------- Previous post was at 07:12 ----------

Do you never bookmark the shows on Netflix that appeal to you? If you did that, they would be listed in 'My Shows'. Easy peasy.

---------- Post added at 07:16 ---------- Previous post was at 07:14 ----------

Just second rate rubbish most of the time. I guess if you are happy to watch any old junk that is thrown at you together with endless adverts, you will be happy with the present system. Hardly stimulating, though, is it?

---------- Post added at 07:22 ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 ----------

If you only want to watch British material, the new successor to Project Kangaroo involving BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and maybe Channel 5 might be the streaming service for you when it is launched. Subscribing to Netflix won't be compulsory - there will be far more choice in the foreseeable future.

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Old Boy there’s really no need to be insulting about the viewing habits of other people as “hardly stimulating”. It’s television, by any mechanism it’s delivered, it’s a broadly passive experience.

It’s curious how you are insistent this is how the future must be despite recognising the many barriers new entrants face and fail to recognise that it’s far easier for incumbents in the pay-tv market to deliver apps/on demand than app developers to put their content on the largest platforms with the easiest and most user friendly interfaces.

It’s sitting watching a rectangular box at the end of the day and the vast majority of people don’t feel in any way strongly about the technology behind it. The evidence points to most people enjoying a mix of watching live, on demand and on apps. I’ve no idea why you feel so strongly against offering people a range of options to suit their preferences and needs.

Ironically if television evolves beyond being passive it will be through social media interaction. Which necessitates that everyone is watching at broadly the same second. What’s the cheapest and most effective way to deliver that I wonder?

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I just cannot get my head round the implication from OldBoy that programmes produced in the past are 'any old junk'. Many of us did not have the time to view series first time round so I find channels like Drama have much enjoyable content which is so much easier to find and record than ploughing through hundreds of possibilities on Netflix only to find your choice was made with amateurish actors in some far off country and shown with subtitles

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Look at the popular section on Netflix.

Friends , Its always sunny in Philadelphia , Homeland , Suits , In the dark , Brooklyn Nine Nine , Luther , Peaky Blinders , Power , Line of Duty , How to get away with murder , Impractical Jokers the list goes on all content that's already aired on linear TV some many years ago.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

As usual OB has his rose tinted glasses on believing there is only one future while being dismissive of anybody who shares a rather different view of the future then him.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

TV streaming service TVPlayer are set to lose further channels in March

QVC and CNN were removed in earlier in February whilst ITV2, ITV3, ITV4, ITVBe and CITV were removed from the free TVPlayer and joined the Premium service

On March 22nd Boomerang, Cartoon Network and Cartoonito will be removed

https://www.a516digital.com/2019/02/...osts-rise.html

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I'm sure he'll be along shortly with his next pearl of wisdom.:D

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

l await his next pearls of wisdom with relish.:D;)

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Well, jfman, if you are suggesting that people who plonk themselves in front of the box and just gaze at whatever the channel they are on throws at them receive stimulating viewing, I fail to see where you are coming from. For anyone to be so passive about what they watch suggests to me a state which is almost comatose.

Yes, people do watch a mix of live, on demand and streaming, and that is fair enough, but as we all become used to having the choice and only watch what is of interest, live viewing will become less and less until it becomes unviable or not worth the effort.

I think your reference to the barriers new entrants face is aimed at sport, and you are drawing on the experience of Eleven Sports. It is true that new entrants will find it an uphill struggle, but the same applies to existing conventional TV channels, doesn't it? Sky already streams on Now TV, and no doubt they will do so more and more with time as broadband rolls out and people get more used to streaming live TV.

As I have said many times, the demise of the linear channels is not what I 'want' - I don't give a toss personally as I don't watch them - I just think that this is the way it's going. The BBC agrees.

---------- Post added at 19:42 ---------- Previous post was at 19:39 ----------

My point was simply that watching the same old repeats over and over seems mindless to me when there is so much new stuff people could be watching instead.

If you've not seen the programme before, of course, it's not a 'repeat' to you.

When I look at my Netflix watch list, I really cannot identify with your comment about their content. How can you seriously believe that the content on Netflix is inferior to what you can find in respect of dramas on the TV channels? How bizarre!

---------- Post added at 19:46 ---------- Previous post was at 19:42 ----------

As I keep saying to you, Den, the media industry agrees that this is the way we are heading. It is you wearing the rose tinted glasses, not I.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

The BBC don’t actually agree with you. One of the proposals for their Charter review includes speculation of what the future may look like, not that it will. Do the Government have a tender out for this DTT bandwidth to be reallocated yet?

No. They do not. Until then the BBC have no genuine meaningful commitment to an all streaming future.

You used the term “hardly stimulating” so I don’t need to defend a description you use.

Do people sit down and consume whatever the TV throws at them? Arguably to some degree, yes. Even you contend that streaming services need prominence in EPGs and integrated with existing search functions. Slots at the top EPGs are considered more valuable than those that are not.

Sky don’t offer Now TV to compete with its premium product. While I accept it proves my point that Sky are best placed to offer both products depending on the wants/needs of their consumers. The uphill struggle doesn’t apply to Sky: they own the content anyway. As long as it’s sales are in addition to the main product it’s easy money for Sky. Now TV doesn’t have any of the challenges of a new entrant because it has far lower costs than a new entrant trying to offer the same content by streaming only.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

BBC and ITV to launch new* subscription streaming service called BritBox.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-it...-idUKKCN1QG0R6 *it already exists in the USA and Canada

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

Call it 'speculation' on the part of the BBC if you want to, jfman, but it is what the BBC believe and it is with that in mind that they will be preparing their negotiations in ten years' time. That BBC view chimes with what the media industry believes. Why you continue to spit in the wind with your 'nothing will change' arguments, I cannot fathom.

You are correct in saying that DTT bandwidth has not been reallocated yet, but as that won't happen for some years yet, I don't think that is a relevant point. Incidentally, you may have overlooked the fact that this process has already commenced elsewhere in Europe.

Yes, I stand by my 'hardly stimulating' comment. That's not being rude to anyone, it's just a statement of fact. However, it is just as easy to click on a streaming service and click on the first programme you see on there as it is to select a channel and fall back in the armchair in a hypnotic state.

Your argument around Sky seems confused, as if the view you express invaliidates my argument. The existing satellite system will soon be complemented by an IPTV system, and although the two systems will exist side by side for probably a decade, it is very likely that their system will be IPTV only after that, when existing satellites are due for replacement. The IPTV system Sky design to replace satellite tv will be a better version of Now TV, and it will be based on the 'on demand' features rather than live tv. In the early days, of course, it will have both, with an ability to record the scheduled programmes. The design of it, I believe, will lead to a better acceptance of viewing by VOD.

Sky could retain Premiership sports rights now that they are a part of the larger Comcast stable, but that isn't guaranteed. It may be that BT is the first casualty of the increasing interest shown by the global streaming companies. If you really believe that Amazon and other companies don't have the financial clout to outbid either BT or Sky, you are deluding yourself.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

So are we likely to see the iPlayer become a shadow of its former self ? At the moment my licence fee allows me to watch a considerable amount of Boxset content on iPlayer.

Re: Linear is old tech - on demand is the future
 

I don't know the answer to that, muppetman. If there is to be a charge for the UK version of Britbox, then I think the i-Player will continue as it does now. However if there is no charge to UK viewers, Britbox UK will almost certainly replace the i-Player.

The reason I think this is that the Government will most likely insist that licence fee payers continue to have access to a free streaming service from the BBC.

I wouldn't absolutely rule out a hybrid, where part of Britbox is free but you can subscribe to a premium version of it. I think it is unlikely, though, for the simple reason that this may be less politically acceptable.

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The article says it will be chargeable , if iPlayer just becomes catch-up and you have to pay for Brit box for boxsets then that's clearly a step back for license fee payers.

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There is no reason why the i-Player cannot continue as now, but actually it is essentially a catch-up service. The BBC is severely restricted as to what it can add to the i-Player due to the Government's 'unfair competition' concerns.

---------- Post added at 10:49 ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 ----------

There is more information about Britbox UK here, and this makes it clear that the BBC i-Player and ITV Hub will continue to be available independently of Britbox UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...-rival-britbox

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No doubt about it MM.