Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

So we should, on top of our cable subscription, pay for another product to monitor our usage?

A car comes with the speedo as default.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

So, buy a business connection, this a residetial connection

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Why would I want to do that?

I'm not a business, Hello?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

It was an example, not literal. It is your responsibility to monitor your speed, however you do it, just as it is yours to monitor your usage.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Fair point again but only applicable if the restrictions in place are both clear and unambiguous and most of all well publicised.

Above all though is the need to examine the reason for the rule in the first place and judge it by whether or not it actually addresses that problem.

As it stands the rule/guide makes no sense as it does not gain the result it was claimed it was designed to give.

EDIT: If anything the reverse is true and what may well develop is people complying with the letter of the law but actualy increasing the congestion at peak times.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

And I do monitor my usage. I've posted examples of it already.
What we are saying is NTL are trying to force us to limit to 1Gb per day which is both unfair and wrong. NTL need a rethink.

If NTL want to advertise the fact that the 1Mb connections comes with a 1Gb per day limit so be it, a lot of us will be off. Until that day then how can you stand up for NTL?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

bluejammer,

Same goes for mod archive . com, lots of people from the demoscene, provide tunes, be it mp3, xm, it or std 4 channel mod to the site, for reviews etc.

If you was into the demoscene back in the amiga days, you will know what I mean, and getting these tunes can soon up your usage.. again, legally.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

"I am a sound artist, I write, produce and remix electronica/downtempo music."

That sounded like a business

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

The cambridge dictionaries definition for a business:

"the activity of buying and selling goods and services, or a particular company that does this, or work you do to earn money:"

thats not happening is it?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I wish it was, but it isn't, it's just a hobby, if it does take off I'll buy you a pint, and maybe a decent internet connection if you like ;)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

taken from

http://www.ntlworld.com/service_update.html

Q. What activities could result in exceeding the daily download limit?

A. Downloading very large video files or audio files continuously from newsgroups or file-sharing services like Kazaa, is the most common cause of very high data usage.



erm,

They forgot to add their new Broadband Plus 'could' also reach the daily limits.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

another one of these professional looking websites.
God those NTL web designers are good! <--- sarcasm

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I don't think I've ever heard of someone being killed in an accident because they were using too much bandwidth, but I see your point. It is far easier for the ISP to do this however, and users could very simply login to a web page to see their current useage, maybe even buy more gbs.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Only one flaw in your argument noob and that is congestion in off peak times wont be an issue as it wont affect the vast majority of games players and browsers or any other mainstream users.

Shifting such use out of the peak time will, however, give clear benefits to all users.

Don't forget this was never put forward as being an issue about total usage it was stressed that the need arose because of congestion at peak times only.

Our solution has the benefit of helping shift and balance loads throughout the 24 hour cycle making the most efficient use of the available bandwidth.

As for producing problem off-peak instead, I doubt sufficient downloads would ever shift for this to be a real issue so the probability that of-peak would get congested instead is unlikely to apply unless you are saying the off peak useage is already very high as well.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

No the communist model is exactly what you are preaching, equal shares for everybody, everybody is equal. You however appear to be confusing this with the failed russian model of communism - everybody is equal but I'm better than you.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Oooh don't let Ken Livingstone near this thread he'll introduce congestion charging on the NTL network.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Hmm, somehow I missed this one.
I'll just deal with some bits.

If they have admitted extreme use, then no need of a breakdown. (Putting words into my mouth).

Letters have been sent prior to any admission, so yes, the amount (evidence) of over usage should be given, which shouldn't be a problem to give, since ntl will have the details to-hand, as they will be writing because of those details at-hand.
Would not giving customers the details, improve customers experience, rather than keeping customers in the dark.
That's your opinion.
Sending out such letters without details, will, as sure as hell, make users cut their usage, whether there is justification or not. It is a very clever ploy to use such a psychological method to reduce customers usage, and with obvious benefits to ntl financially. In fact, the resulting discussion of such a letter here, is having a similar effect on some members, of querying amount and reductions.
Not when ntl sends a letter claiming overuse, since obviously have the details would be to-hand, otherwise why would ntl be sending such a letter. (apart from the above)

That is the kind of attitude at ntl that has got ntl the reputation that it has.!!
......and other disagree but are staying quiet.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

You can't it's the law. Perhaps OFCOM should create a rule that you cannot put in bandwidth restrictions without providing and supporting monitoring tools.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Actually the London Traffic model is a good one as one of the key things they did was to promote the notion of off-peak travel by giving some incentive to avoid peak times.

Applying the current AUP to that model would be saying you can only travel X miles each day but it doesnt matter when you do that. Result would be the majority would pick the rush hour as that is when they want to be there.

Yes some would voluntarily shift their travel times but far more would do if there was some positive benefit for them.

As it stands someone making two off peak journeys would be seen as more of a problem than another making a peak time journey even though they are not adding to congestion at all but actually easing it by changing when they travel. Thus they would still fall foul of the cap but someone else choosing to add to congestion by making a journy at peak time would not.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I have been trying for over a year to get a way to monitor the connection. NTL have teh SNMP blocked and all other routes I have traid have failed.

NTL will not supply a webpage with graphs on showing your usage so technically if you stay with NTL without some alterations to whats on offer you are in for a stressfull experience.
The fun of using the internet, the chance to enjoy whats about to unfold with BBC and NTls own BB+ are worthless.

I was on the phone this morning to NTL and in the autmated part they plug the BB+ as an good addition to the BB which its not as things stand.

I feel 3gig a day if its kept daily should be the target for 1mb most will not use it but at least you can still enjoy the internet.
One important must is NTL have to invest in online montoring graphs for customers to access by loggin in using their user details and password. This has to be working 24/7 so customers can always access them.

I notice this has started again just after the record bonuses to the management. The cap just after AOL signed the big contract to sell BB.. Are AOL customers capped to 1 gig a day :shrug:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Doubt it, and if not.. why not.

Seems unfair that ntl customers have to adhere to a guideline, and those on ntl network (3rd party) are not.

Wonder if aol users are recieving these letters.

[edit]

Just seen this.

http://www.aol.co.uk/broadband/compa...l?promo=228937

AOL Broadband 1Mb

What can I use it for?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Quote - [it'll just shift congestion to a different time of the day.] end-quote.

You are almost there (understanding the concept) !! But not quite.......stay with me. The exercise in shifting of downloads is....spread the usage over the day, not move the whole congestion to elsewhere. If you think that everyone is going to move to the night-time, you are not being realistic.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I stand to be corrected but my understanding is that the AOL contract includes the same AUP but they have indicated it will not be applied unless it should prove necessary.

Anyone on the AOL/NTL connection able to confirm this?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Now on the register:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/22/35684.html

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Exactly my thoughts on this. Advocating everyone pays their share and gets the same back as everyone else is communism. Surely it's extreme capitalism at the moment, pay the most and also get the most out of it. I guess some got their economics and political science rooms mixed up!

The main problem with the communism is of course that if you only ever get the same amount back there is no incentive to put any extra in. In fact there is every incentive to put nothing in and take everything offered. So everyone goes down to 150k and just maxes out their conns 24/7. Results on NTL network would not change much, but the 50% cut in money coming in would certainly do something! :D

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Was already reported on ispreview this morning

this is the T&C for AOL BB that link is for BT line BB
T&C and agreement to be signed scroll down and click on T&C for ntl BB below where you put in your postcode.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Neither do BT, but BT have exactly the same cap in force on their 512k BT Broadband package.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

BT do have a capped or basic service package, but customers have a choice as they could use the very slightly more expensive uncapped service. I'm not sure but once I think these two were branded BT Broadband & BT Openworld, now of course openworld is BT Yahoo or something daft. Bottom line here is BT did offer their customers a choice as to what they wanted if they want to pay for it. NTL theres no choice - take it or leave it but preferably if you take it you mustn't.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Dear ntl Broadband User

We are deeply concerned regarding your internet use and the affects on our profitability.

We introduced †˜The Capââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢ to allow more users to join thus enhance our profits.
[The idea came from a bus company who removed the seats from their busses allowing more passengers to travel without buying any more busses.]
Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢m sure you can see how your limiting internet use can really help us, especially towards the end of the financial year.

While we are currently distracting you with †˜The Capââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢ please be assured we are working ever harder to improve your profit contribution and reduce our costs.


Yours truly,


Support ntl team

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

lol you beat me to it

heh

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

of course the choice is still there, BT is just 1 provider out of many on the ADSL network.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Sometimes you tend to come across as a little android programmed by someone at NTL to advocate capping! :)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Sorry but we are not discussing BT at all what we we are looking at is what NTL do.

Just because a n other company are not acting honourably or not doesn't let NTL off the hook.

My contract is with NTL and this is a discussion about the NTL AUP and how they are starting to enforce it.

Please can we keep the discussion on that topic and not worry about what "other" companies do or don''t do.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Maybe you should check your working out ;)

I assume you mean 24kbps? Not 24KBps? 'cause to be honest I can't see why any radio would need 24KBps :p

1Gig works out something like 128kbps flat out for a whole 24hours.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

the problem is that although this is an ntl directed site, what our competitors do directly relates to what we do. You cannot have a go at ntl for having a cap and then complain that it's nothing to do with the ntl related discussion when somebody points out that other isp's also have caps in place. I am not saying that the issue should be detracted from and that we should start talking about bt but comparrisons have to be made for the whole picture to be shown.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

LOL Hehe, glad that you took that in the spirit it was intended. :)

You're entitled to fight the pro-cap corner as it probably directly affects your workload, but as customers a lot of us have the opposite opinion. I don't approve of the blanket 1 gig cap. I'd be happier with a 3 gig per day cap. 1 is just too low in my opinion. I haven't received a letter and I've admitted in this thread I've gone over the limit, but I don't do it all the time and normally it's not much over 2gig. On my craziest day I think I once hit about 6! This week I doubt all my downloads have totalled half a gig, because I haven't done much apart from a little bit of surfing, but if I chose to update the newsgroup listings in agent I'd probably get halfway to the cap just doing that as some groups have a million + msgs.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I would rep you but my quota is up...

I feel NTL need to listen and tier the cap... I also feel that excessive use should be moved automtically to business rate. I remember another ISP doing that and the limit was quite high perhaps 60gig a month makes you have to move over to business. This could be put into the AUP if this makes it easier than charging a fee per gig over the limit.. But to be fair daily use changes it is flexible.. NTL are not being flexible with a daily cap a monthly one is fairer.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Potential customers for BB services have a choice, in many ntl service areas between cable and ADSL. If you choose cable, for whatever reason, then it's ntl or nothing. If you choose ADSL, then you get a choice of many ISPs. Many users still do not have a choice as ADSL has not rolled out fully accross the country, or even where it has, if they want the top tier speeds they have to be close to the exchange. technically therefore tose who desire speed may not have a choice of service. In many ways ntl have a monopoly on choice.

If you compare overall the number of ADSL users to the number of NTL based users in a comparatively served area, what is ntl's market share - I doubt ntl would wish to publicise that.

If you are stuck with ntl as your only practical option, you are stuck with the limit. But that will harm ntl's long term development and market share.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Does that mean you agree or disagree?? ;-)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I think of it like road tax, you may only do 10 miles a week and someone else may do 700 but you all pay the same (depending on engine size).

I'm not for any cap at all, I never have been and I'm now glad that I'm with a company that doesn't cap you at all.

BUT (and you knew there would be one) I do think 3+ Gb a day is excessive, and people d/l this amount regularly should think seriously about whether its going to be sustainable to carry on.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I am going to calm down on this now, we are all arguing with each other :(

Bottom line is I hope the end solution is good for all :)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

That's not ntl's fault that's upto to suppliers of the adsl network to do something about. Don't forget we don't cable a lot of the country and there are other cable suppliers in differect area's (telewest), and, in all honesty, there Broadband technology it a darn site more advanced than ours, half of the problem ntl have is the large shareholding that is owned by banks etc, they won't bankroll upgrades because of the cost involved, so the only way ntl can afford the upgrades etc is to use company cash which at the moment is very scarce. I do know however that ntl is reducing expenditure by getting rid of half full buildings etc.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I take it you see what I mean though about what some other company doing is no justification for NTL doing the same.

You appear to agree with us that how it is set now is wrong do you also agree that how it was introduced and STILL is not highlighted in the advertisng is also wrong?

Also do you agree that shifting some useage to off-peak times would help reduce congestion more than simply limiting total transfers in a 24 hour period?

EDIT: And given your view on upping the allowance for higher tiers the possible negative effect of a user using all their allowance at peak time would actuall make the matter worse not better unless any increase was only used off-peak.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Well - So much for NTL's T's and C's

There was a NTL sales van outside mcdonalds in Luton today...

On the side was a big sighn stating " unlimited internet "

I spoke to the guy in the van and told him that I was interested in the service. I asked him if there is a limit on downloading ? No he said - there isn't

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have taken some pictures of the van ... Apologies for the quality but I took them with my old mobile/camera.........

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

asdf,

I said, 24k/sec (which according to DU Meter is Kilobytes per Second (kB/sec)), which is 192 Kilobytes per Second (kbps).

24kB/sec x 60 secs is 1.440mb x 60 minutes = 86,400mb x 12 hours = 1,036,800mb.

I'm sure I got my maths right, If I ain't, then both the calculator, and DU Meter or both wrong.

As for the radio station, it is at http://66.184.142.31:8000
And my DU Meter still says 24k/sec sometimes going upto 32k whilst listening to it

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Yes I do agree that the current state it is in is wrong, like I said previously the cap I don't disagree with, but the way in which it is set out at the moment I do have aproblem with. How can we justify or expect that allowing someone with a 150k connection having a 1mb the same download capability would be fair? The cap needs to be there, but should be tiered according to the speed taken. Someone on a 150k line doesn't want to see a drop in service because their next door neighbour is running a buisness web site onext door on a 1mb line, likewise someone who downloads legitimate/non-legitimate doesn't want to see a cap that is the same for somebody who pays £17 odd less each month for their connection. Teiring would be fair, and even should solve the issue that started this discussion off, also yes it should be based over a monthly period rather than daily.

With regards to the "off-peak" usage, from what I can tell, it would be very difficult to monitor. Also the main reason behind the "peak-times" being peak times, is because that's when most people are in and can use the service. I reguarly set downloads up to go overnight (off-peak) but if all high users start doing this then off-peak won't be off peak anymore?! Do you get what I mean?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

This sign on the outside of the van is not Broadband, but dial up. The offer is talk Talk 24 (telco package) and get free cable base pack or unlimited dial up so the rep was correct, on our dial up there is no limit. The question I would ask is did you mention Broadband, if yes, then he was wrong and you should complain, if not you will find he (and the poster) was refering to our unlimited dial up service

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

The point there is that the ADSL product line is rolling out further and further, and other BB technologies are being proposed and often implemented, such as local wifi networks in outlying areas. In simple terms, if ntl are too constrained by their backers, and a blinkered management strategy, as the customer choice of competing technologies, with freedom to use with less restriction becomes available, for in many cases cheaper cost, will ntl have customers left? As you say, Telewest technology is more advanced. Who's fault is that - must be someone in ntl put short term profit and directors bonuses ahead of long term infrastructure and viability.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I dont know why anybody argues because there should be no cap in force at all other isp's have no cap & offer BB for less money each month with the revenue NTL gather in each month they should have the best isp service in the UK without imposing a cap on their BB customers

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Fair point but it is unlikely in the extreme that the numbers shifting use outside peak time would ever create such a problem and even if it did the congestion would only affect those same heavy users. :)

Allowing a 1 meg user to download more than a gig at peak times would however increase the congestion unless that increase is not used at peak times.

Unless some form of load balancing accompanies any change to the AUP the result is always likely to be at best no change in congestion and at worst a large increase in congestion.

Think "Economy 7" and the benefits that brought to all customers by helping encourage spreading the load by providing an incentive to do so.

Yes have a tiered cap but also link it to some method that encourages off-peak use as well.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Possibly yes, and in that situation obviously it will be looked at by our backers/directors. Although we know what the technology is the simple fact is that due to the large area we cover the cost of implimenting the technology is to big for the company to take on. If rumours are true then I would expect a merger between the two companies within the next couple of years, maybe then we will see some sensible action taken to make sure the point you have made doesn't become reality.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

You are allowed to go over the limit for 3 days in 14, as I understand it.

Presumably ntl see no problem, in a number of similar customers coinciding with their '3 days over' the limit. Though, apparently, not for longer than 3 days.....or that will cause congestion.....but during those 3 days there will not be any congestion..........

Remind me someone....why is there a cap?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

You won't find me disagreeing with you on this point provided we can back it up, and I am afraid I don't think we can at the moment in all honesty.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I'm possibly being a bit blind, but having just looked through the BTYahoo T&Cs and their User poilcy I cannot find reference to any download restrictions. If you can point me in the direction of where that is laid down, I'd appreciate it as it would affect my judgement on the whole issue, and perhaps my attitude to ntl.

For those who say "off topic", it's on topic because ntl are claiming to be a market leader and thus what they do now, others could consider tommorrow. That's one of the major concerns of anticap. If a player like BT places caps on it's products then the market starts to think it's a practical option and they all follow suit.

There may not be true transparent competition between cable and ADSL services (see my post above), but to joe public there is probably little obvious difference. If caps are a coming thing then as a severe potential restiction in use for the faster tiers, given the "always on" type brandings, ISPs must be obliged under fair trading to make the limitation far more obvious than it is at present. That may be a requirement for the regulators if the industry cannot address that itself.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Sorry rodd its two days only as the third triggers the cap in the current wording and the 14 day period is a rolling one so it bites even deeper that way.

As for the reason, well from day one the reason given was peak time congestion and that appears to still be the case now.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

The point is that the off-peak will not be monitored. That’s simplicity itself. At present, all hours are monitored. You have answered your own question about off-peak becoming less off-peak. [[the "peak-times" being peak times, is because that's when most people are in and can use the service]] Exactly so, they will not all go to the off-peak night-time sleeping hours, making those hours a peak time. The idea is to encourage the heavier usage, such as downloads, to those hours, thus spreading the load of usage. At the moment it is a free-for-all scramble for usage.

The main overwhelming fact is that, were all users to download (under their limit) at the same time you would get massive congestion. So you can see that by spreading the load, and encouraging more users to the off-peak times. The chances of that greater congestion situation is greatly reduced.


P.S. Sociable, I stand corrected on the days.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Then I had better get my complaining hat on :) I asked him twice if it was for broadband. He told me - yes 150,600 and 1mb have unlimited internet access and that broadband plus (he made a big deal out of this) was only available for the 600k and 1mb service...

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Yes they would to get you to sign then they kick you with the cap.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I think you will find that the ASA have already thrown out a complaint abt the phrase unlimited on posters as it refers to unlimited browsing and does not refer to unlimited downloading. So i think you will find that you will have no success in complaining :)

good luck though

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Isn't that rather like having an extra note in very small print on the back of the wine menu at an "All You Can Eat" restaurant which says:

"When we use the term, †œAll you can eatââ‚Âà ‚¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ÂÂ� this only applies as long as you don't swallowââ‚à ‚¬Ã‚ÂÂÂ� :rofl:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

No, your maths are indeed right. I appologise.

Maybe you should work a little on using the KB (kiloBYTE) and Kb (kiloBIT) in the right places ;)

Quite a high bitrate for a radio station, have to say, but they do exist. However would you really be listening to one for 12 hours?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

As for the point earlier about paying the same for council tax and only using half of your bin whilst your neighbours is overflowing.

Well my local council actually sent a letter around saying that you were allowed no more than one bin and two seperate bags.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

asdf,

Not saying I was right either, I only put in what I was seeing, my fault for using the wrong K or k whatever it is.

No apoloige needed, my bad for giving the wrong information.

As for the radio streaming, i've already said, it is in the background all the time, even if i'm not at the computer (mainly convienace for when I return), or if i'm out of the computer room, I turn up the speakers to listen to it.

Even when I goto bed, it's still sat playing to itself. Habbit I guess.

I do not watch TV or play games, adn I find the internet enjoyable and in my current position, is about the only hobby I can do.

If it aint that station, it's one the digitally imported stations. I prefer to listen to them online, rather than waste my time looking for mp3's, and the risk of being sent virus.

Sorry for going "off-topic", just answering a question.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

In something like this it is a change to most customers. I agree a lot of customers joined under these AUP but I still strongly feel that NTL need to show flexibility. If it was a monthly figure not 1 gig a day as that is more or less set in stone which NTL said it wasn't. At 35gig a month most would be happy and perhaps not reach that figure. Anyone who goes over that for two months out of three months gets charged the business rate... It is a small increase on the 1 gig a day but the change to month makes it more apealing and less stressful for those with teenagers using the internet or on a internet college course where large files are going both ways.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

But many other services DON'T have a "cap" BT customers have a choice:)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

but you cant do anything with your 'connected' connection unless you download - or are you suggesting web browsing doesnt involve downloading/swallowing?


or perhaps because we have all made our thoughts known last year and have nothing to add/dont want to recycle old comments... which is pointless anyway cos no-one cares what the customer thinks - based on the 'power users' forum being still born I think it's fair to conclude this is true?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I wouldn't consider you the pro-cap ntl programmed robot. You have helped many with problems, what is being asked for by people like me with children who for reasons of their own wish to be able to monitor. This way staying inside the NTL limits. I also know from this week that having 2 teenagers at home is difficult to keep them of.
One reason why customers need to be able to monitor
Playing CS online, reformationg the pc, then redownloading all the critical patches. The reformat makes it neccassary to redownload the Counter strike levels and updates. This my son would do all in one day. This would put me over the 1 gig a day if he replaced anything else or I listened to a stream of music which I do over the pc as this is in the living room and if hubby is watching football. I drowned it with music.

The 1 gig a day is too restrictive. A monthly total would be more flexible allowing us as a family to plan what we will do staying inside the limits.

I have never known anyone after a reformat to do part one day and finish the next even I stay up until it's finished. My last reformat was in December the one before was almost 12 months before it. I can keep my pc going like that as I don't use the p2p programs and I doin't file share. I know my son has been now and that seems to be why he reformats regularly. None of us have large HDD. 40 gig here my daughter has 40gig and my son has 30gig now since his 10 gig died. Hardly heavy downloaders I couldn't afford the big HDD or the CDs to keep burning cds.

Still the thought of having a letter about usage is my main worry and I want to avoid it. For over 12 months I have asked/complained to have a way to monitor. If we are mentioning about competitors and what they do then lets have this sorted as those with caps do have an online way for customers to monitor. The ones who didn't have but had caps sent out emails when they was near the limit. This method did get a lot of complaints as the customer was denied acces to see for themselves causing distrust between the company and customers. creating large numbers to complain via ISPr, this put the companny constantly on the top of the ISP complaints list which in turn stopped new customers joining.

Before anyone red reps me I am only speaking for how I feel and what its doing to my household. There has been an increase in rows over downloads and I want a way to stop this and get the enjoyment back I pay £34.99 for...

People are different some don't give a dam others can end up very stressed out by the whole thing.

I agree those who download hundreds of gig a month need to be stopped but it can be changed to NTLs advantage by charging them a fee per gig when they go over say 35gig a month. This takes the pressure of those who 90% of the time are inside but the present one 3 days out of 14 days without a way to monitor si unworkable.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

The CS levels used to be backed up on his 10 gig but the whole drive seems to be corrupt none of the pcs can access it and this last time he had to reformat the whole HDD his first attempt didn't clear what ever he was clearing out. Don't ask I got my head bit off for asking with the words and don't bloody tell me to stop downloading, I need to finish so I can get back to course work.

It has really been a pain this time and yes the whole family is on at one another now over downloads. Is it really worth it.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

yes, all the time I am connected to the internet and I'm using my pc, I am downloading/swallowing and the stuff I download is legal - it's web pages by my browser.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I'd concur. We also have to remember that this is not a cap in the true sense of the word in that once the Gb has been hit everything stops or slows down, but guidance. The policy seeming to be policed is that of excessions over 3 or more days, so a single, or couple of days excessions, perhaps the good ol linux distros or a new pc setup with a blitz of windows updates and software downloads onto it is acceptable.

NTL could just as easily state 30GB a month, but some smart alec would complain that this meant you could download more each day in February than January. Daily or monthly its still guidance. Those recieving letters are probably downloading more than 30Gb a month (did I read 10Gb a day?) so we are talking about users making maximum usage of the service.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

We know of one customer who downloads 8gig a day and 2 gig upload that also recived the letter. so they have moved the goalposts again.. I know that if he downloads 8gig a day for 7 days thats 56gig in a week but if his upload is only 2 gig then he isn't file shareing 24/7 is he.
When I am building a website I do upload a lot sometimes re-uploading but I am only learning and well I haven't spent anymore time on my new template as I am not sure I can, just unsure if I have any bandwidth left to work on that and college work.

All the worry could be removed if only NTL would allow consultation and listen perhaps to what is being said also to reply to emails from customers who are disturbed by whats going on.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

When NTL first announced the cap didn't they state they would work with Power Users to produce a product aimed at their needs? I've seen nothing arise from this. As usual I presume that another NTL statement/promise came to nothing and was nothing more than a tactic aimed at deflecting flak at the time of the announcement.

I am a heavy(ish) user. Average 3GB a day download although most of my downloads are scheduled such that they occur off peak so as not to disrupt the service for others, ie from 1AM in a morning. I don't believe that making 25%-33% usage of my connection (1 MBit) to be excessive and I certainly don't agree nor will abide by a 1GB cap on 1MBit.

/me sits waiting for my cease and decist letter with NTL's cancellation number close to hand.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

2Gb upload is pretty impressive. If you thing about it NTLs web space is 55Mb, you could upload to 36 sites with that kind of througput. Mrs Hs commercial web space on Demon is currently taking up about 150Mb, but in general the uploads to a web space are itterative, I certainly would not want to reload the entire site again.

Personally - while this week you are possibly going over the guidelines I wouldnt worry if I were in your position. Nobody using your service is intentionally abusing the product by filesharing, web server hosting etc, yours is just a normal half term usage with an unfortunate rebuild in the middle. Perfectly normal usage IMHO. I suppose I am trying to say that I don't think you are who NTL are targetting.

I'm sure NTLs 7-4 usage has increased dramatically in this M-F

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I think this thread will go on forever :)

Does NTL ever answer this site ?
If they don't we are really just talking to ourselves.

I looked at the AOL T&C that Kitty posted a link to, and couldn't see anything specific about a cap - would it be an answer for the heavy downloaders to switch to AOL's NTL Broadband Service ?

I've probably missed a very good reason why that can't happen, but thought I'd mention it.

Love the site guys, but its all getting a bit personal, calm down - its only bandwidth !

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I dont know whether I'm going to get the final word in this thread but I got the first so I might as well try.

Most of us have been through this before havent we? We started on about the cap, we then started argueing with each other and then suddenly started to become personal against each other.

We are all really fighting the same battle. To have a reliable broadband conenction which we can use when we feel like without slow pings or bad latency. (Whether that be 4 hours a day or 24 hours a day).

Now NTL have decided that we should ALL become normal broadband users without telling us what a normal user is. Yes they quote 200 music files, 650 video files, 10000 pictures and so on but emmm. thats hardly a definition of normal is it?

What we are asking is: NTL, advertise the fact that you wish to impose a 1GB cap per day download and for us users who are not normal (but to be honest who are NTL to tell us this) then provide us with an alternative or I'm sure most of us will be off. And above all listen to your income stream (thats us by the way) and tell us whats going on. Please!!!

Thanks to all who have contributed to this and I'm sure we'd all be interested if anyone actually hears something usefull back from NTL but do we acually expect something?

Anyway, until the cap gets brought up again in 12 months time, lets put a cap on it!

Thanks,

Steven

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

my view here is on middle ground, I think downloading 24/7 is obviously abusive and does indeed need to be remedied but I also think that 1gig a day on 1mbit is too low, having the same limit for 3 different prices is also wrong, and ntl not providing the tools to measure your usage is wrong.

NTL need to meet on middle ground here if they do I feel there can be a solution to the problem.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I'd rather do without INet access before using AOL.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Same here - Cant stand Ass****s on line :mad: I have spent to many hours trying to remove their poxy software of users computers :(

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I also had a change of hosts recently and had to redownload the whole site to my pc the upload to the new host while altering the pages a little to remove the old hosts logos. I would be really happy if I had the way to review the SACM that is all I have been after for over a year. I am going to redo my website but need to finish my college course first which involves building a commercial website with all the reports I have to send up on how it was done..
These can need altering it does all add up..
I will finish the course as it is my future I am trying to alter and I had thought NTL would be my ISP when I finished time will tell if they are.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Still even this site is unlikely to take up more than 200Mb on the server, so uploading it from one server and downloading to another is not going to take you over the guidance limit (i'm not calling it a cap anymore as no immediate action happens when you hit the guidance limit).

Even then tweaking pages or code is not likely to add more to the bandwidth usage, the databas would be the bulk of the site (at say 150Mb), the images would be uploaded and unless you were changinng the location of them not need moving (or you could use the .htaccess file to redirect).

Pages well best practice is to keep the code to 20-40k so each html tweak will be a tiny element of bwuse.

Its the CS uploades and the WUpdates that will knock you over guidance limits.

Now will NTL ever increase the upload speed. No point in me going from 600 to 1mb as the upload stays the same pedestrian rate i had on my bonded ISDN line. I foolishly thought that cable was a synchronous product which is part of the reason I selected it over ADSL, (along with ISDN number portability problems), but I could upload faster on many dsl products. I'm sure you suffer the same frustration.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

yes and I see you have just sent me a neg rep because I neg repped you - how pathetic is that?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I don't mean to nitpick, but you start by saying there is a problem, then say that there can't be a problem, becuase you're the biggest BB provider.

I don't know where you get that figure from, and I guess that there are different ways of interpreting statistics, but:

1. ntl's own figures say they have (in the last published figures) just over 2 million customers, with around 30% of them taking broadband product (for the purposes of this, the sum also included narrowband always on connections). This is a total of 600,000 broadband connections.

2. BT's own figures claim 1.7 million broadband connections in the UK on BT Retail, from a base of 1.93 million from BT Wholesale.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

how do you know I didnt read the thread properly - I read it all and concluded that your attitude as an employee towards customers is poor on that posting you made to sociable in particular. Then a couple of hours later I see you neg repped me because in your opinion I'm wrong!

kind of negates the point of having a rep system if you just neg rep the person back because you dont agree with the neg rep you received.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Guys, Guys, lets leave it.

If you wanna fight it out, I can arrange a very good ring to vent your anger in or take it privately. :ninja:

It is only a discussion, not a war starter between ourselves.

Chill!

Just :kiss: and make up. :luv:

:Peace:

:dmonk:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Erm - Sorry Etccarmageddon - I cant see anywhere that Justanothernoob has a bad attitude to the customers. He has in fact help get many high level network problems in NTL resolved..

I think this thread is getting personal and agresive.. Its now gone beyond a reasoned debate so I will not be bothering to read this thread anymore... :(

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

you're entitled to disagree Stuart - I just left that as an opinion based on my view.

anyway discussion over - sorry for boring anyone.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Got to agree here - you would think he personally had introduced the cap from the way some people in here are talking - it seems to be the "he works for NTL, lets get him" syndrome.

As I believe I said many posts ago now - if you don't like the cap then stop moaning about it and move - I'm sure Pipex etc will welcome you with open arms. :)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I tend to agree but what if NTL is your only choice? at least with ADSL you can pick a supplier who has no 'cap'.

or does the AOL/NTL offering offer a cap free service?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I'm sure it wont be long before I give Justanoob a positive point!

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Nice one m8 - :ghugs: are needed here .........

Its good that we can all chil out and remember that we are not at war :)

:eek: I'm sounding like Sociable :D

Edit : Just noticed that sociable is reading the thread - :walk: away now :D

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I have to agree SMHarman there is no point in upgrading to 1mb for customers now. I might have to reconsider things and I might move down to 600K.

I am sad to say that red reps for posts in this thread don't seem to be warrented and will only stop some members particpating in the thread. We can agree and disagree without red repping IMPO.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

That's OK Apology accepted.

btw I did reply to your post but did so via my post to the other person who raised the identical point.

http://forum.nthellworld.co.uk/showp...&postcount=382

You may find the sub debate betweeen myself and Hell's Child that followed usefull as we managed to reach agreement on most points.

I have green repped you for your last post btw just to say thanks for your apology rather than red rep you for the earlier outburst.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

No need to butt out of the debate Noob as it makes sense for all views to be included.

I have a question for you that may help in that respect.

Do you think it helps when people like myself take the middle ground and suggest a compromise where the principle of having a cap is accepted as being necessary but then looking at ways to make it both fair and most of all workable?

If so do you have any response to the point I and others make about the need to ensure any cap actually does the job it was intended to do by building in an element of load spreading into the mix?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Fair point and as with Hell's Child we are are very close in our positions in this.

The whole reason this thread re-opened the debate was that the sending out of the letters signified a change in NTL's policy indicating they are now starting to enforce the Cap.

Yes it is still being worded as "guidance" but you surely agree this is a step up from the lack of activity from NTL over the last year.

This is why I and others feel this is the time to do the building and refining of the AUP and are trying to suggest some constructive ways this can be achieved.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

but at the end of the day... do our opinions (including Justanother's) make any difference? decisions on this subject are made by people who arent interested in customer feedback (power user group) or simply are 'too busy'?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I'm an average ntl customer, I download on average less than a gig a day. But on occasions I've downloaded a lot more than that.

I still fail to understand what people do with their endless gigs of downloads, legitmate or not, when do they get to listen or watch this stuff that they're constantly downloading. I'd suggest that p2p has turned people into data collectors. C'mon guys do you really need MPEG copies of every episode of friends?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

In a word YES!!!!

Just imagine how they would have implimented and enforced the current cap without any voice being raised to question it.

The impression given was that NTL may have been waiting for the objections to die down before taking action the fact we woke up and barked shows this dog still has teeth.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Fair point Peach, but you and I both know that some will always be downloading more than others but that is not the main issue. Yes some of that will be either illegal or without practical use but much of it wont, especially to those actually doing it.

Congestion is caused when all users compete for the same bandwidth at the same time. This is where the first point actually becomes a positive in the equation as it allows for the possibility of that part of the load being moved to a different time slot.

The current AUP has the effect of concentrating all traffic in to the prime time segment thus increasing not decreasing traffic at that time.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

increased content comes from various things, streaming on the net is increasingly better quality (higher bitrate) maning bigger filesizes, within a year we will see some download a movie online rental sites, if its dvd images then we are talking 4 gig a peice although I expect it to be more likely compressed 1-2 gig size. The future is the problem, every day that goes by is making a 1 gig cap more and more outdated.