Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

1. When did you subscribe to the 1Mb service.

2. Have you ever read any version of NTL's AUP?

3. Do you ever think of any other users on the service?

4. Do you know anything about how DOCSIS works?

By downloading that much you WILL be degrading other users performance whether NTLs network is good or poor.

You have to remember that the service is contended. In other words, other users share the bandwidth you use.

If you want a non-contended service at 1Mb, you would be paying considerably more than £34.99 per month!

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

As is often the case the answer lies between the two extremes.

At off peak times they will not be impacting on others or themselves but at peak periods everyone including themselves will notice a degredation in service.

The hogs don't mind too much as they are getting so much extra usage anyway but those expecting a reasonable service when they do use it are rightly annoyed as they dont have the balancing extra benefit.

One solution to the problem would be to put all the known hogs on one UBR then see just how fast they would all scream about other people's useage getting in the way of their own.

This is not possible though so the logical way to ensure everyone wins is to encourage the downloaders to do so of-peak and that way nobody suffers from degraded services.

The advantage of doing this is it would then be possible to increase the allowances to more reasonable levels for downloading providing the majority of that use was at off-peak times.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

That information is not provided to people who come to buy the product, lets face it, I have not seen on channel:ntl whilst ntl are promoting their broadband service that customers share their connection with other paying customers, ntl does not ask or warn customers that they have to be really careful with their connection because they might effect other customers etc etc.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Hmm..

Thanks the heads up Justanothernoob.

Didn't realise so many factors we're involved!

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Really????
Unless you are original NTL I would say that there would be far more STBs on the network than SACMs. And they all use the same UBR!!

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

True, but all users have to agree to abide by the AUP when they are connected.

Perhaps a copy should be forwarded to all users when they initially subscribe, giving them the right to cancel without penalty if they don't agree to them.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Can you really see NTL doing this :confused:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I agree but my main point is that ntl do not advertise the fact that their broadband service is shared with other customers or tell them that they cannot exactly do what they want to do with their connection i.e there is a download limit being enforced etc.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

What is the point of paying £17.99 a month for a BB connection then worring that if you use it too much you will be spoiling another persons enjoyment, you shouldnt have to worry or wonder if jack & jill 5 miles away has enough bandwidth just because you are using your connection, the only people who should worry weather there is enough bandwidth is the isp.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Some good points guys. I would say I'm pro NTL, as they have given me a great service. However, I got a letter so I have that against them. I understand the need for a cap, but the 1Gb is ridiculous and needs a lot more thought.

Secondly, no-one from NTL had told me that I shared my connection and that how I use it could affect others. The first indication I had was in this letter yesterday and even then it was far from clear. These points should be made clear when you sign up to the service.

I've always used my connection as much as I've wanted to and have never noticed any slow down, day or night. If I don't notice it, I'd be surprised if others did. But maybe that's not the way it works. I am a techie and I want to know these things, but even if I wasn't, NTL should at least out-line how the technology works and how you affect others.

I am sorry to leave NTL, I've had a very good service from them. But while there are other ISP's out there offering unlimited services, I'll make use of them.

Klaus

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Handled correctly it could actually be used as a selling point though.

But this would only be possible if the AUP and how it was enforced actually made sense.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

The point is the potential customer would not worry, they would probably not buy the product if they were told that they would have to watch or monitor how much bandwidth they were using in order to keep within the AUP.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I can't blame the customer for using his/her connection, as they see fit. If it becomes a problem, then maybe ntl should sort it out, but not the way they are doing.

Almost say the same for the roads, I only use the local roads twice a week and main ones maybe once.. yet there are ppl who use them all day, everyday, toting up some serious milage. Does not bother me, I just leave earlier if i'm aware of traffic problems.

Personaly, I believe it's ntl's problem for not outlining that it's shared.. etc etc.

Ok, so it's still a connection to the net, and fairly cheap so we know it aint a leased line.. but, how many of the alleged 1 million customers are tech heads?

Maybe a differant package(s) should become available, like they have for the TV, to suit the needs of the individual/family.

Game connection, dedicated connection, maybe low contention for the gamers out there (max up/down of xxx mb week/month).

Web + mail connection, more or less the same as gamers, but on another card, as not to affect the gamer. similiar max usage allowance to gamer

Family pack :)

Wanna be heavy connection, all people who aim higher than the current guideline. Higher allowance

I am heavy user connection.. as it says, high contention, away from the other packages. No limits

Not sure how it would be all but together, not my problem, this is for the people who get paid to sort out these problems.

Just ideas.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

they need a way to monitor also.. as for paying £17.99 and worrying about the cap you would struggle to abuse 1 gig a day on that service.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I do not monitor my connection, why should I.

Not for me, always looking at a box, checking usage.. becoming uneasy when you get near your allowage.

Nope, would not make the internet enjoyable at all, be almost like when we had to pay per minute for the dial up's .. never again!

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

In the same way that you don't keep a tab on how many phone calls you make, or how many items you put in your basket at Tesco's?

Life is full of watching what we do, we watch what we eat, what we buy, how much we spend etc.

If you're not a BIG downloader you're not gonna need to keep watching it, so don't fret. If you are a BIG downloader then maybe you should consider moving to ADSL and leave ntl ;)

Please do!

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

EVERY other consumer ISP uses shared connections. No one advertises this!

When you were on dial-up, they didn't have as many modems as they did customers waiting for your call, hence why you'd sometimes get a busy tone at peak times. It's the same with broadband. No consumer ISP in the world is going to pay for everyone to have 1mbps throughput!

Just imagine how much ntl would need to lease for that?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Geees! Opened up a can of worms again didnt I :)
I'm just going to put my thouts in again.

As I previously stated, I do download over 1Gb of data per day but about 2Gb or 3Gb tops but not the 10Gb some are claiming to download. I do nearly all my downloading during the night.

NTL have sent these letters out blind as a mailshot. They dont quote figures that I am downloading, they dont tell me how I am degrading others performance. Only that I am. I guess i have to trust NTL and take their word for it! As if. I will be asking for proof of the pudding.

Responding to asdf: The more calls you make the more you pay. THe more items you put in your basket at Tesco, the more you pay. Mabe NTL should think about the more bandwidth you use the more you pay? The 1Mb connection was dropped from £50 to £34.99 I remember sometime ago now but clearly they werent ready for the uptake or actually realised how much more bandwidth the would need!
Now what about an idea like some ADSL comapnies? Lower speeds during peak times and faster speeds during light times? or, how about repricing the broadband service? say 1Mb with 1Gper day cap, £30 and 1Mb with unlimited downloading £40/£45. What would people think about that? I wouldnt mind it certainly.

Do NTL actually have a users forum anymore since the killed off .com?
Maybe we need to set one up (although we would need the cooperation of ntl on this).
NTL are a company of high paid bigwigs who concentrate on profits far more than customer satisfaction. Yes profit is important but keeping customers happy as well is equaly important.

Come on NTL, talk to us - that all we want!!!

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

[QUOTE=asdf]EVERY other consumer ISP uses shared connections. No one advertises this!QUOTE]

All the ADSL providers I see do display this information.

Thay all say x connection, on a 50:1 / 40:1 or 20:1 contention ratio.

Ntl, as far as i'm aware, do not advertise this.

Even on their own website, when ya goto sign up, there is nothing about the connection being shared. Or am I blind

http://www.ntlhome.com/ntl_internet/...d_producttower

One from Plusnet, for example, says that it is 50:1 contention, under Your Connection

http://portal.plus.net/info2/residen...lfinstall.html

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

To be honest, if you know what contention means you will know that all broadband is shared. So a pretty null point.

NTL is aimed at the masses and as such isn't very techie in the way it advertises. Think of it like BT or AOL. It's not a niche service, it's the tesco or sainsbury's of access.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

It is a null point, if the people know about it.. I agree, but what about the other 1 million subscribers, I'm sure not all 1 million are educated on stuff like this.

It's not that they are uneducated, wrong wording, they are mis-informed.

At least if the advert says contention ratio of xx:x, those who do not understand, could ask. If not, then they are no wiser, and continue to use the connection.. assuming it's still unlimited, as sold to them.

So the masses that ntl is aimed at, could, without knowing, abuse the system, because of the mis-informed adverts.

Not going to argue..

I feel that a lot of people will be unhappy if they recieve these letters, what with the broadband plus too, I guess lots of people will also be using that, even more the ones who are new to the internet .. it all adds up.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

[QUOTE=Blake]Looks like you are blind (your words not mine), see http://www.ntl.com/locales/gb/en/hom...and/what/same/ bottom of the page, and with an explanation.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

A flat rate pricing model inevitably must accept some users will use a service more heavily than the average, others less than average. Assuming the business model is correct, the patterns should balance out.

We have plently of examples of flat rate pricing in the UK: postage - it costs me as much to send a letter to my neighbour as it does to the other end of the country; Council Tax - my wheelie bin is nearly almost only 1/2 full each week, my neigbours is usually overflowing, but we both pay the same effective contribution. I could go on.

The majority of users like flat rate pricing structures, as they know where they are with them, and don't have to worry about use. Even ntl in promoting their telephone services encourage the model as it will be cheaper for the customer who makes lots of calls. It's the whole idea of the concept.

For flat price models to work, it's up to the supplier, to price the service accordingly.

Perhaps the flaw in the current model is not that there is an absence of a heavy user tarrif, because the current service should be set up to expect that. Perhaps there should be a light user option in addition to the standard service, cheaper than at present - effectively a standing charge for your connection and then pay as you go for data shifted.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I was considering upgrading my 600k service to 1mb until i read this thread.
Have i got it wrong? or as i mainly use BB for downloads there would be little point as i would just reach cap quicker?

I know there are a lot of isp's could someone please give me there opinion on alternative providers?
I am on NTL cable phone so this will, im sure,limit my options.

many thx

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Icanadvise,

I honestly did not see that, I blame my screen res 1792x1344 and bad eye sight.
I stand corrected, and apologies to all other members for mis-information.

Justanothernoob,

I class myself as uneducated.. and I do not pretend to know it all, I did not realize so much was todo with cable/uBR/contention, etc etc, just that a 100:1, 50:1 or even 1:1 number (as advertised on most ADSL sites) was the number of people sharing the connection.

I have no arguments with anyone, just trying to look at it from my *lack of knowledge* (and maybe others) piont of view.

If ya don't ask, you will never know!
If ya never say, you will never be corrected!

I ain't got a clue what my usage is, not something I watch.
I just use the internet as I have been shown, I access usenet, but not P2P

I ain't against the people using any connection to get terabytes of stuff or against those condeming it. Just thought i'd put my view across.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

You are now starting to talk about of paying per meg of download. Going that way is unlikely to do anything at all to help with peak congestion. Some ISPs go half way by having a restricted usage package, that might be more suitable for those complaining that others use the service more than them. As long I can do my small usage, then I'm no complaining.

What ntl just can not get into their heads, no matter how much we have tried, is that it is not logical to cap the non-peak (normal sleeping hours) in the same way as the peak daytime hours.

Those normal sleeping hours are the most off-peak, and least disruptive usage of other users pleasure, that there could be.

Ntl can not see the logic of freeing those hours of any cap, and encouraging users to do their heavy downloads during those hours. Trying to get any logic through to ntl, is like talking to a brick wall. Logic is just not ntl's strong point.

Bulldog, I believe, have or did have some kind of different allowable usage in off-peak times. Perhaps they are just more enlightened.

<a justified rant> no appologies

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Wish I understood it more, then I could proberly see the problem from a technical postion.

At the minute, I still think ntl have a problem (just looking at this site alone tells me so) with the digerythingymabob and the whatchamecallit, and untill they iron out these gremlins I guess they are here to stay. Even if mr. blobby down the road is using 100% capacity or not.

I don't think it will go away either, Even if people do pay per mb or gig, they still using the same network as me, you and mr. blobby, and those who don't pay per mb, still suffer..

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I actually do the majority of my downloads between midnight and 7am and these are queued using Bit Torrent. I rarely download more than 200mb a night and download 0mb during the day.

i have friends who connect to the same p2p as me and they get huge downloads at crazy speeds on Pipex i believe. Can someone give me any info on Pipex?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

All the informatioin you need is http://www.extreme.pipex.net/ read up then check the forums on www.ispreview.co.uk and http://www.adslguide.org.uk/ for any problems.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Thankyou Kitty :angel:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Well compared to the avg. 5-15 kbs i get i believe 1 of 2 things:
either my BB is setup incorrect [probable] or my actual connection isnt up to scratch.

600kb NTL connected throught 10/100 ethernet adapter.

Is there any information available to see if my BB is setup correctly?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

The downloads i get are slow wherever i download from but the speed tests make me out to be a liar!

Wed, 18 Feb 2004 23:50:26 UTC
1st 128K took 1863 ms = 70355 Bytes/sec = approx 585 kbits/sec
2nd 128K took 1802 ms = 72737 Bytes/sec = approx 605 kbits/sec
3rd 128K took 1853 ms = 70735 Bytes/sec = approx 589 kbits/sec
4th 128K took 1813 ms = 72296 Bytes/sec = approx 602 kbits/sec

This means nothing to me as im not technically minded when it comes to PC's.
If its working it's ok if it's not,ask for help! thats me lol

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I see justanothernoob's point about why isp's wont provide higher speed products, but the answer isnt a 8mbit product with 5gig traffic limit, that is just ridiculous. The answer is as what somone else suggested, manipulation of when people download.

Example 1.

2mbit product, capped to 2mbit download between 1am and 8am weekdays, capped to 500kbit between 8am and 1am weekdays, capped to 2mbit between 1am and 6pm weekends capped to 512kbit between 6pm and 1am at weekends, you could also take this further by manipulating the upload speed as well. This would make people do their downloading in the 2mbit time periods more, the stubborn ones who still do large downloads during 512k periods will suffer from reduced speeds. This should be possible as I believe ntl use QoS.

Example 2.

Keep cap how it is same speed all day, but when user reaches their traffic limit, they get capped to 64kbit isdn speed for the remiander of the month, this means no extra charges and they can still use the net, but are essentially crippled freeing up the bandwidth.

In both examples there should be a super user package available which is charged accordingly to allow the users the options of more felexibility, the extra income from this would be used to provide the infrastructure capable of doing this.

If caps are used such as Example 2 they should be reasonable 5gig on 8mbit is just stupid, I would say something like 20gig - 150kbit, 50gig - 600kbit, 100gig - 1mbit, 150gig - 2mbit and so on.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I think you misinterpreted me. I am not saying that anyone should need to pay more, because the business model of ntl and indeed any ISP should already be priced to reflect the average and extremes (both low and high) of usage that will occur. Clearly however the low user who feels they are being taken for a ride paying for use they dont want, has a choice in the current pricing to downgrade their service speed and thus cost, or accept it. I would prefer those occasional very low use ppl who still want the convenience of fast broadband to be able to pay say a fixed price that covers the cost of the physical connection, and then a charge based on use. It becomes a matter of choice for the customer as to when to move from the fixed cost plus use model to the all encompassing flat rate, just like ntl currently offer with their telephony.

Much of this comes down to the economics of metering. I suspect metering broadband is uneconomic if it were applied accross the spectrum. Hopefully ntl have better priorities for upgrading their network to cope withthe real demand.

What I am saying is that for the occassional low user, who downloads little but wants the convenience of the faster speed, they could find that, because of the flat rate model needing to account for the overall average levels, a low user tarrif that covers a the fixed costs of the the physical connection, and provides only a limited bandwidth, might be appropriate. For everyone else the exisitng flat rate price structure is clearly preferredFor those users alone a pay as you use it model might just be appropriate, but it is an area to be explored with caution.

What is most apparent, when you look at ntl's own expectations of what 1GB actually allows, is they are failing to take account of ever expanding data sizes, which follows ever law of bigger, better and faster computers. Ntl's own expectations of use are flawed, 10,000 pictures = 1GB, great they obvioulsy don't own modern digital cameras do they? Therefore last year, it might or might not be appropriate to say 1GB was a limit. This year the average limit must be higher, and next year it will be higher again.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Well NTL have done exactly what I expected. They introduced the 1GB cap 12 months ago, took the flak at the time but stated excuse after excuse about how it wasn't being implemented etc etc yet didn't remove the clause from the AUP. Then they've waited till the flak has died down before 'going after' heavy users.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Actually, there is a 3rd option as well (and a combination of all 3)

That would be traffic shaping. I.e. where application-layer bandwidth management servers are installed on the network which identify packets by their class, and allocate priorities. So for example, gaming packets get a low-latency priority, whereas P2P packets get the lowest priority of all.

I personally favour a combination of very high speeds, bandwidth limits with an OPTION of either slowing to say 64k over that limit, or staying at the top speed and paying per gig above the limit, and traffic shaping.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

How is that, one person can overuse a service, and degrade the service for everyone else, but him/herself?

For example, at the moment, with 6 people sharing a connection in the street/town, person A is getting full speed, and that is making persons B, C, D, E, F are getting the reduced speed. How comes person A gets priority over the other users? Is it because he is closer to the UBR for example? Surely if overuse is slowing people down, then, everyone who are downloading at the same time, would share the bandwidth equally amongst themselves, as everyone gets equal priority?

I know how it affects pings and latency, but people are also complaining about download speeds aren't they?

How does the bandwidth got distributed amongst users? I'm probably looking at it too simplistically/logically, but I have wondered.

Also: Everyone on the this thread is talking about the guys downloading 10g a day, but don't forget the first person to recieve the letter (Acathla) only fractured the limit slightly. (see here). So I don't think its a good idea to think they are targetting only the extremely heavy users, they are trying to target everyone they can.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

One important thing to remember is that file transfers will always be subject to the weakest link principle.

If the person you are getting a file from is on a "normal" domestic line the odds are the speed will be in the 128k or possibly 256k region although some may well be able to max out your download speed this is certainly not the norm.

Even from commercial sites this can apply if there are more people downloading from the same server at the same time each of you will only get an appropriate share of the available bandwidth which again can reduce the speed you download at.

The speed test sites are gererally always able to pump at far higher speeds as they are only ever sending very small packets of datat and so will normally always push this through at the max but even then bottlenecks on the route from them to you will impact on the actual speed.

Hope that helps explain a key difference between speed tests and normal downloads often being at lower speeds without it meaning there is a problem with your connection at all.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Guys! You think we have it bad on NTL! My mate live's in Belgium, has a 3.3MBit internet connection and has an imposed cap of 10GB a month!?!?!

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Some have had a letter for downloading 8gig a day with 2gig uploads.
It is on ISPreviews main page. I will be canceling my broadband extra as I just tested a video and it used 675,815 kb for this morning.

The BBC is in talks now with BT to share the archives over p2p.. That will be of no use to NTL customers what size files will they be.

I think NTL might be shooting themselves in the foot. I agree those who download 100+ per month but it is no different to the 1gig a day. It needed to be set in tiers
1 gig for 150K
2 gig for 600K
3gig for 1mb

That is a fair option and customers should be able to carry over what hasn't been used from one month to the next so parents can save up for school holidays.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I agree, and this where ntl has created a rod for its own back I think. They have encouraged people to 'use more' and pay the same amount, not only with the internet, but now the phone calls too.

So people duly do as they are instructed, and use it more. Then ntl comes along as says 'you're using it too much' and surprise surprise people are angry at this.

If ntl want to limit people's online activity, then quite simply 'all you can eat' style pricing will not work. And it will only get worse, with more and more broadband enabled content out there (including their own Broadband Plus) even lighter users download rates are going to increase still further, putting greater loads on the network for everyone.

This whole discussion about people downloading more than 1gb has gone on for months and months now and after a lot of thought the only sensible and fair (to both ntl and customer) pricing method will be pay for what you use.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Can I just ask what might be deemed a stupid question..

If I drop the NTL internet (1MB STB connection) and go to an ADSL provider via a BT phone, can I still use NTL e-mail? even though I would no longer be an NTL internet customer?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I assume though that he can pay for additional traffic should he go over his allocated amount right?

Here's another question for someone that can answer it....

Would everyone having a larger bandwidth help here? What I mean is, if everyone had a 2mb connection, but at certain times of the day and evening you were only going to get the equivalent of say the 600k connection, would this make things better or worse in terms of network load?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Can you actually use it now? :D To do this, you would have to convert your e-mail to a PAYG dial-up account.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Heh, I can use it now, well 95% of the time anyhow!

PAYG dial-up? blimey, that sounds like a lot of mither to me.

Is there any way of having the mails re-directed from the server to a web-based account, or have my ntl e-mail accounts made into web based accounts?

(sorry to hijack this thead with these questions, but I'm very tempted to go over to http://www.cpbb.co.uk/ for an ADSL service)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

This idea would make NTL greedier and take more out of the customers pockets to line the managers.

I feel it should be reviewed and the cap made more in line with the speed like I said above. then anything used over that charged at a set rate per gig like some satellite ISPs do.
The way you suggest making it vertually a PAYasUgo would make those who use little stay those who use approx the right gig and above to leave as they would never know what their bills would be. I certainly couldn't stay not knowing how much the next bill would be. This makes BT look 100% better prospect and another nail in NTLs coffin

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

True, all of the basic broadband packages from Videotron include some quite stingy allowances - starting from only 1gb per month.

However their new 'Extreme High Speed' service makes a big deal from the fact that you get a 4mb line with absolutely no restrictions on downloads, and it'll only set you back 24 quid a month, plus 4 quid a month if you want to rent your modem rather than buy it.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

The pay as you go option is nice and simple and would still be required either way as you must be an ntl internet customer to have an NTL email account. The pop3 mail will be downloadable from anywhere so forwarding is not a problem AFAIK.

The new account will only attract charges if you use it though so this is "free" way to maintain an NTL account and explains why that option was recomended in this situation.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

If they put a decent limit on the amount you could download I really don't think there would be an issue. They could then limit your speed to say the 150K service if you go over that limit (or charge) but the limit would have to be a decent amount

Although this might not work for the 150k service in general they could just forget about a limit on 150k to be honest as its not the fastest service in the world and people who take that up I can't see are going to be major heavy downloaders anyway. (its more for browsing)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Wow just talked to customer services straight through after the automation to Steph. Nice lady was really helpfull and has said she will put forward in the staff forum about the customers feeling unhappy about the letters. I explained that the broadband plus now was of no benefit to their customers as it would take them over the cap all the time. I wil not be filling in my details to continue with this option.

Time for organised discussions and customer meets with mangers at the regions... any volunters to go in threes to each region and talk to the manager? In threes so they can't twist what is said afterwards safty in numbers..

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Getting back on topic there is one major problem with all the various options being discussed for alternate solutions to the problem.

NTL would have to come clean with the customers about there actually being limits.

This I think is the one and only reason the basic compromise we have been arguing for since day one, of only restricting peak-time use for file transfers, has not been adopted by NTL.

This would be the simplest one to both introduce and administer and more importantly not pi$$ of large numbers of users who would object to any form of "pay per gig" or bandwidth throttling at peak times.

I would suggest, that with the exception of the few diehard, "I signed up for unlimited and I'm dam well going to use it" users (who will object to any proposals anyway), the option of the AUP wording only applying to peak-time use would be the most acceptable option not just for NTL but also for the vast majority of its customers.

As I said the problem is not the method used but the simple truth ANY method being put in place requires NTL to be up-front about it. The compromise we originally proposed is IMHO the only one capable of being presented by NTL to the customer base as being a †œpositiveÃÂà ‚¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã‚ƚÂÂ� move designed to make best use of the network whilst ensuring ALL customers are given the best quality of service at all times.

EDIT: Implimenting our option would also free up the possibility of allowing larger allowances for the different tiers as there would be no need to enforce such a low daily cap. I would suggest something along the lines of 1 gig for the 150k service, 3 gig for 600k and 5 gig for the 1 meg service, but the detail of that could be worked out by a discussion with users once the general principle is accepted.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Well I don't see there being a problem with that. Looking as we were at the Videotron set up in Montreal earlier, they have it all laid out nice and clearly as to what your limits are. If it is all laid out in black and white then there can be none of the ambiguity that exists with ntl today.

Maybe we can further complicate and combine some of the ideas - unlimted at certain times of the day (say 12 midnight to 7am) then your limits only apply to daytime and evening hours - if you exceed your daytime limits then you pay per mb/gb over your standard 'unlimited' rates.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I think 5 gig for the 1mb service is a must and much more sensible, especially with the increase in file sizes going on currently (Game Demo's - On demand video - NTL's own 'Broadband Plus' - the BBC's P2P plans etc).

For Example:
I pay £34.99 for the 1mb broadband with the 1 gig limit.
I want to watch an old episode of Steptoe & Son for instance from the BBC's proposed free (license fee funded) P2P service - thats half an hour of video streaming so probably about 400-500 meg maybe more depending on compression - I then want to watch the BBC's news - say another 5 - 10 mins so about 100 meg.
I then want to use NTL's own 'Broadband Plus' to watch some pop videos - so another 1-200meg gone.

So far thats about an hour and a half of perfectly reasonable broadband usage and over half of my 'allowance' gone, I then have a quick web browse, and see an update for one of my games - its 200 meg - damn I can't get it today (or tomorrow probably, unless I don't watch the BBC) as I'm afraid I'll go over my limit.

Tiered caps are a must, its quite frankly astounding that the 150k and 1mb services have the same low cap.

Personally I think that to pay for extra gigs would be a pain and probably cause more problems than it would solve, just setting sensible download limits would make things run smoothly I think for 99% of customers.

Just my thoughts...

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Can't disagree with that, Can you imagine the amount of problems the billing system would have :eek:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

If they do *enforce* (as yet, it's only a letter asking to lower uasge) the 1gb/day cap for all tiers, then, has been said before, there OWN Broadband Plus will be a waste.

I signed up for the 3 month freebe, chances of me subscribing now .. zero

Broadband Britain ? .. no chance.

Every user has his/hers own usage patterns, and to say 30g a month is Enough, then thats ok for a single user, what about the ones with familes? they would use more.

I use online radio, from digitally imported and chillout at radiomax.nu (just two out of a few I listen to alot) , now some days, this can be left on playing to it's self in the background.. even if i'm not at the computer.. now some of the streams are 256kbit, most are 192kbps (I think thats about 12-20k sec), so just on the usage of the online radio... thats almost a gig a day, assuming it's not turned off.

I do not turn off my computer, just my speakers. The chances of me changing, after years on the net is nil.

They introduce packages, then say we can't use them.. but they still want to take our monies.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Been there and done it with anticap last year - and that was with the directors responsible for the internet services themselves. Unfortunately much of what was said had to be "off the record" and thus it would be incorrect of me to say too much. Let's just say that if anything, the 1GB policy of today is conservative compared to ntl's view of the future. It was quite clear that the directors support the cap concept.

Regrettably ntl's thoughts on this issue appear to be closed. Ntl must be aware of the strength of feeling, after all they would be downright foolish not to be aware of this and many other sites.

The only real way that ntl will see that restrictions in use are inappropriate is when they find customers are no longer signing up or are leaving of other providers. Thus commercially the cap policy is costing them money. At present, ntl see that the few heavy users are causing them bigger losses, than the potential loss of that sector of business.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Basically they just don't want to admit that the business model they based projections on was flawed.

As I understand it the original calculations were based on average use of only 100mb per user, no wonder this could not cope with new uses like gaming and plus.

NTL have a choice to make. Come clean and admit they need our help to come up with a revised system for ensuring the long term integrity of the service close to the basis on which most if not all of its product was sold or inevitably fail as a company.

Continuing to fudge the issue and avoid admitting they got their sums wrong is no longer an option.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Has anyone actualy been dis'ed for over use?. Hardly anyone has even got a letter!. This whole cap thing has been blown out of proportion. It is there to stop the really heavy users. This thread was started by someone claiming to download 10gig a day! Lets be serious, its bit OTT. To down load 10gig a day is taking the p1ss. The average user won't get even near that. I download martial arts related films, competitions and other mpegs, and yeah sometimes I break the 1gig barrier (2.85g is the mostin one day). That may go on for 2-3 days then back down to whatever Quake, surfing and mail uses up.I haven't got a letter, so I can only pressume that the people that have are really pushing the limits. It is also, more than likely to be pirated films or software which ntl can't be seen to condone.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I got that letter, I am not averaging 10GB, DUMeter has actually counted 1.3 GB in the last 24 hours and on top of that I was checking the UBR usage with that DocsDiag tool and only a third of the capacity was reached at peak and off peak times. As stated before 1GB is way too low, the cap should be tiered providing at least 3 GB a day for the faster connections. Peak and off-peak usage should also be considered, leaving the heavy downloaders to do their downloads at off-peak hours. Pay as you go for heavy downloaders is not a solution since there are competitors out there who don't have the same cap policy.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

[QUOTE=Womble]This thread was started by someone claiming to download 10gig a day![QUOTE]

I think you'll find I started this thread and nowhere did I ever quote figures like 10gig a day.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

If that were true womble then why have the 1 gig as the limit that makes no sense?

If they want to stop the 24/7 users only the limit would have been set way above 1 gig. It is clear from the fact they did not that at some point in time they intend enforcing it at the level stated.

The only reason I can see for the delay of a year before any enforcement is that a larger number of users have now put themselves under the revised wording in the AUP either by being new customers or having changed tiers.

NTL themselves know they are on shakey ground legally as regards those who set up their contract prior to the change and have not subsequently changed levels.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I'm afraid I don't understand what you are saying, I never mentioned contention, nor was I discussing it - I merely pointed out what I thought was a perfectly legitimate use of bandwidth that would be curtailed by the cap in the future.

I feel that 5 gig is a perfectly acceptable limit for a 1mb line, as I thought I clearly explained (but you cut the rest of that paragraph out of your quote)

Thats all I was saying, I'm an end user, not a technician, that just wants to use his connection 'reasonably'.

None of this affects me anyway (yet!) but I can see problems coming..
Just my thoughts.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Problems will arise too, I'm sure of it.

I feel sorry for the familys, who's kids are off school.. being sterotyped as "heavy users", when all the information they get from the net.. is legitimate.

Even the gamers could crank up some usage I guess, (including updates, demos, patches, maps, mods etc) they too are being penalized (in a way).



1gig is way to low. 5gig is still low, but more realistic.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

[QUOTE=Acathla I think you'll find I started this thread and nowhere did I ever quote figures like 10gig a day.[/QUOTE]

Yeah sorry I stand corrected, didn't read from start of the tread...doh:blush:

But I still thing that 1gig a day is more than plenty for the average home user. It would be interesting to see, if everyone complaining about the cap stated what there downloads consisted of, and are they from legal sources. As for gaming etc, you could play for 24hrs and get nowhere near 1gig transfer, yes some of the mods are large but you only download them every now and then

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

The trouble is that NTL are victims of their own marketing success. They cut the price of 1Meg and so more people went onto it. They upped the bandwidth of the 512k package to 600k. They signed the deal with AOL to provide cable for them. Their network canââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t cope, or at least certain parts of it canââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t cope.

The solution to the problem is clear. No more 1Meg cable. Limit everyone to 512k or 150k packages, or raise the prices charged for the packages. Then hopefully NTLs network would be able to cope again. The total amount of data that could be downloaded would be almost halved or they get more money in to help with upgrading. The problem with this of course is NTL will lose money, about £10 for the x thousand of people they downgrade to 512k from 1Meg (If they all chose to stay). Then they risk looking like a second rate broadband provider when compared with Telewest offering 2meg cable and ADSL companies offering 2Meg ADSL for almost the price of NTLs 1Meg service. This is the crux of the matter. To stop people downloading so much you have to either physically limit them by cutting bandwidth or charging more to discourage it. NTL won't do this though. NTL want as much of people's money as they can. Their problem is that if you cut peopleââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s bandwidth and they have a choice to go with ADSL, they probably will and you lose money. If they raise prices on premium packages, they stop being competitive when compared to most other ISPs. Itââ‚ ¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s already looking a little too much when you can get cheaper 1Meg ADSL with prices likely to fall a wee bit further as BT tries to encourage more people to take the leap.

So, instead of the sensible option NTL decide a blanket 1gig limit. No matter how much you pay for your connection, at the end of the day you are getting the same product. You might not even reach the limit on 150k, but in real terms you have the same capacity for data download as someone paying twice the money.

People compare this to communism. Thatââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s rubbish. If it truly were like communism, everyone would pay the 150k price and get the 150k service, or the 512k price, or the 1Meg price and get the relevant service. Itâ₠¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s more like Blairism! If you can afford to pay for 1Meg, you get the same old 150k service as someone paying 150k prices.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Why would that bring anything to the discussion? Are you an employee of FACT or someone from the BPI? What difference does the nature of the downloads matter. It's being downloaded, that's the issue. What is an 'average user'? People pay for a faster connection, because they have a lot of data, be it legal or illegal, that they want downloaded. They want it and they want it quickly. The fact they will pay more for this means they are not average users if you compare them with someone doing occasional browsing on 150k!

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

ntl are taking the wrong attitude here, a good isp oversell's their bandwidth but they do it right so performance isnt affected, overselling means allowing customers to have performance of a low contention eg. 5:1 or even 2:1 based on the customers who dont use much.

this means ntl shouldnt set traffic limits for everyone based on high contention, because we all know there are a lot of users out there who dont use much traffic to offset this, the idea of setting the limit is just to stop the 10 gig a day people, so even setting a limit of 5 gig a day you will halve their usage (if enforced) and still keep a respectable limit for the rest of us.

Nildram have a limit of 150 gig a month (allows 24/7 downloading on 512kbit), its there simply to stop people downloading 24/7 on the faster products but allows them to download a decent amount, which is good. I just feel ntl have gone overkill with their 30 gig a month limit, and also really they should provide tools where you can check your usage online let customers get used to it and then and only then have a limit in place.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

The ntl contract terms for a service is usually a minimum 12 months. So yes at the time the cap was introduced to the AUP many customers could probably have successfully argued ntl could not have applied it. Now all customers will have been on for 12 months or more and so ntl would be able to vary the contract, with due notice of a month, and remain in compliance with the contract provision. However I doubt the recent letter really constitutes a clear warning that the AUP term has changed if you were a very long standing user and now applies to the customer.

OK I know all the old stuff of whether the AUP is really applicable as contract, or just guidance, and whether the cap is a significant change that affects the contract. Never did get any lawyers to stick their necks on the block and give an opinion on that.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

No problems

I'll answer this.
1gig a day may be ok for the average home user but I amn't an average home user. Computers (and the Internet) are a large part of my life and I use it for work as well as personal gain. How many average home users actually pay for the 1meg connection? Surely its designed for above average users?

As for what I download, I subscribe to many pay music and video sites and enjoy downloading new songs/films to try. These sites are legal and all above board. There are many things I will download, try and delete so am not storing all this data that is being downloaded.
I could probably download about 150 music tracks for 1gig. If I download a film, most are about 800/900 meg so im pretty much at the gig cap already.

Add this to online radio and the other downloads I get (eg Unreal Tourney demo yesterday @ over 200meg then its esay to see that going over 1gig a day i easy.

I keep repeating I dont excessively go over and download nearly ALL my stuff over night so I dont impact other users but I dont think NTL care.
And, if they are currently only targeting users in my area, what gives them the right? Either target us all and not decide to pick on South Manchester because you cant be bothered investing in the network here. I dont think I've ever seen on the status page of upgardes around here.

Anyway, I would love NTL to speak with us instead of throwing down these demands that we stop accessing the services we pay for.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Let me straighten a few things up
1 I am not from FACT or the BPI, but I can see where they are coming from
2 The average user's are the majority, there ain't that many that exceed the limit, but the few that do seem to make the most noise.
3 The content does make a differance, everyone knows, people downloading that amount of data are downloading pirated software and films. NTL can not be seen to condone it.
1 gig a day is enough to run a small business

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Yes I agree you did then but remember they said it was not set in stone. They have just moved the goal posts ( pardon the pun) so its time to start again. they think the customers have gone soft which we haven't. CS today agreed that they look like losing a lot of customers over this and will have to rethink their position.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I thought ntl were already competing for the third rate broadband supplier market :rofl:

Serioulsy though I think you hit the nail on the head here, ntl have got themselves into a hole they cannot see a way out of. They are in danger of loosing significant market share as they cannot afford to be competitive with the ADSL market. Ntl once could have been the market leaders in broadband and accordingly set the price structure. At the time when the 1Meg speed price was cut, 1meg ADSL was a rarity. As players entered the 1Meg ADSL market they followed ntls pricing levels. Nw ntl might regret the price cut but cannot increase simply because customers would leave in droves to their competitors. A similar danger is emerging at the 150k and 512/600k levels where ADSL is becoming cheaper.

About the only real hope ntl have of getting out of this hole is to plead for tolerance and understanding from their existing customers, give us clear and specific plans as to when upgrades will be in place (only a month or two at most), and place an embargoe on signing up new customers whilst this occurs. If virgin.net could take that attitude late last year (and they are I understand effectively an ADSL based ISP largely controlled as a franchise by ntl) why not ntl? Oh I forgot ntl management have their set closed ways of dealing with things on the we know whats best for you dictation principle.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Agree. I shouldnt pay the same and have already said that NTL need a price restructure. I am willing to pay more so I amn't forced to a 1gig per day cap.

Actually, I do pay to use the conenction 24/7. I bought broadband when it was advertised as unlimited 24/7 internet access (i think it still is). Although, I probably only use it for 12 hours a day. I am at work 8 till 6 and no not use the broadband. Usage is less at weekends as I am usually out of the house.

Tell me that NTL are being fair in this?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Justanothernoob,

I could not care if ntl set limits to 500mb a day, or even 100mb a day.
Nor would I be excited if they allowed 20gig a day.

It's the whole thing, Nildram do 150gig a month limits, so what users are they aiming at.
Ntl offering 30gig a month .. I can see which is the most atractive, on the "monthly limts" alone.

I do not care if 5gig a day needs 1:1 or 100000:1 .. that is not my problem, thats the ISP's, not the customers.

What about P2P ?.. it's not impossable to acheive the limits with such software, Usenet too, again, easily done.

The average user is what ?.. I can't think of an average user, as their demands changes daily (talking to people in the pup for one, mentions something, the "average user" goes home to try it), no longer a average user.. but an abuser.

Even using webcam takes up bandwidth, and you can't say people not use it for hours on end, because how would we know?.. we don't.

I stream radio all day, every day, unless i'm watching a movie or listening to other music. Might not be high rate of bandwith 12-20k/sec maybe, but ontop of other activities, at all adds up.

What goes on in peoples own home, we never know about, so we can't say what the demands are for the single/couple/family needs are.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Actually they dropped the use of the term "unlimited" at the time of the cap being introduced largely as they knew it would get them into serious problems to continue using the term without being open about the limitations to a definition of "Unlimited".

EDIT: Another key issue is that the limit is not anywhere close to 30 gig a month unless you are very very very careful. To be safe under the current AUP you would need to make sure you were well below 1 gig for 12 out of every 14 days so in real terms the actual monthly target would probably be closer to 20 gig and on 600k or 1 meg services with all the extras available now in terms of legitiamte use that is going to be too low.

Even if it were not the key issue is still about NTL being open and honest with customers as to exactly what they are offering.

They could previously claim this is just a guideline but having started to impliment it they are now forced to be open about it and issue a disclaimer in all advertising of the services thus confirming in advance they are subject to restrictions whatever the actual limit is.

Just not calling it "unlimited" is now not an option they will have to openly state the reverse and admit it is "limited" or completly drop the current AUP and its enforcement.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Dedicated Internet Access, which is what you require to download the kind of amounts you keep stating is as follow
512=£80 00 per year
1024= £12000
45meg=£ 266,000

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I think that you have used the very word that is key here...average. By definition that means that there will be people who use less than that (and they do) and there will be people that need more than that. Right now it is black and white (although the enforcement of it is far from it). You have this much, end of story. How would it be if ntl sent letters saying I was watching too much TV, or calling too many people on the phone?

Any in any case I seem to recall that it is not actually illegal to download copyrighted material, but it is illegal to upload it or use it once you have downloaded it. I might be wrong on that but I seem to remember that from way back when.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

It is illegal to download and upload copyrighted material.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Installed a trail version of du meter, currently, just listening to radio, uses approx 24k/sec. times that by 12hours .. there's the limit.. and all legal stuff!.

Yes, as I have said, I have streaming radio all day, so I hit the limit easy, and's thats not including my other activities.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

My point exactly, you can't exceed the limit legally, well you can but you have to go out of your way to do so. NTL could always scrap the cap and use packet sniffers!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Buy a stereo!!!!!!

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Question for you womble.

Do you agree that NTL have an obligation to make sure customers are aware of the nature of the contract they have in as far as restrictions apply?

Is this obligation increased each time they themselves promote additional services such as on-line gaming and plus?

And finally how many customers would either leave or more importantly not sign up in the first palce if they actually brought the full implication of the cap to their notice in its current form openly?

If you want to apply limits don't make all the advertsiing give the impression it is an all you can eat service and then rely on an AUP which itself is only an off-shoot of the main T.O.S.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I think (at least for me) it just comes down to the fact that the tiers are unbalanced and out of date, 5 gig as I suggested would only be a limit set (same as the 1 gig now) of course most users wouldn't use this (I rarely hit 1 gig now) but the 'fear' of hitting it would be removed and allow everyone to enjoy the broadband they are paying for - perhaps fear is too strong a word but you know what I mean :)

Heavy users are always going to be around, no matter what the limits set, thats just a way of life, but the current limits are out of date compared to the content available today.

I am a gamer, I belong to Gamespot - just 3 demos or movies a day downloaded from there would take me to nearly 1 gig, and they have thousands of them - with new ones each day, over the last year the games and movies have increased in size and quality, as broadband has gained in popularity throughout the world - I don't think its too much to ask for NTL to keep pace with the current sizes of downloads.

MSN now provides for FREE hundreds of high quality broadband streamed videos, they are very good but use a lot of bandwidth, again with new movies daily.

I like movies and TV so I often download the latest trailers and whole movies from sites such as Heavy & Atom to name just two, it would be extremely easy to fill several gig a day legitimately. (mostly I don't get the time, but I would love to !)

I would be a prime candidate for NTL's Plus offering, but I would not be able to use it enough given the cap to get my moneys worth, so I will leave it.

A 1 gig cap for a 1mb product that is also advertised available with a 'PLUS' offering (but with no extra bandwidth allocation) is just not fair.

They need to update it.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I think you could quite easiliy go over the limits legally. This will become even easier as more and more companies roll out broadband content products, like ntl's own BB+ If I was watching music videos on BB+ all weekend I would quite quickly fly over the limits I think.

Are you sure? I seem to think that there was some sort of prescident on this a long time ago, before the internet existed. The outcome was that you cannot make available copyrighted material to others (like selling or handing out photocopies of a book) but it is not illegal to aquire such product.

It may well be that the rules changed in the new Copyright Bill recently, and certainly if you install some software then generally you have to agree to terms and conditions which would leave you open to being sued if you violated them (like installing software you had got from someone else).

But in the case of music, I believe the copyright exists in the use and distribution only, not in the possesion.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Womble,

If I could get digitally imported on my stereo, then I would.. be cheaper than the subscription for cable.

But that aint the point... Just proving, that a connection, can, legally hit the current guideline.

How many other people use streaming, I know I aint the only one.. but because my usage is low, but continious, i'm no longer a average user, but an abuser, and I aint doing anything wrong.

Yes 12 hours is a lot, my illness prevents me from getting around much, and is not the easiest thing either, so the internet makes very enjoyable hobby, and a way to pass time.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Im not attacking you personally but that view is EXTREMELY naive.
As I have again said previoulsy (I do seem to be repeating myself a lot), but I pay extra subscriptions for legall musci and video download sites. Videos from there are mostly between 700-900meg each. Theres your limit pretty much without doing anything else online.

Yeah people can use the interent for illegal things but for you to tarnish us all with the thought that, 'well he is downloading more than me so he must be downloading illegal material' - bull!

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I still believe 1gig isn't bad (If the cap is applied sensibly). My wife and my youngest use the PC during the day, and my eldest and myself use it in the evening, and apart from when I download Karate stuff I never hit the limit and I play games most nights

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Which is why I dont pay for dedicated internet access.
Can I refer to punky's post here: http://forum.nthellworld.co.uk/showp...&postcount=263

Completely agree. If NTL had a fair system of dividing the bandwidth round then there wouldnt be a problem. If noone is logged on then I would get full speed but if there were 100 people logged on then of course we should ALL get slower speeds. Why be it I get full speed and 99 others get lesser speeds?

Is that my fault?

It has been said 1,000,000 times before but NTL's network is bad and we are being accussed of it. Own up NTL and sort it out.

(oh and giving us an unrealistic limit is NOT sorting it out)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I'm near 100% sure that its illegal.
Its just Music Publishers will generally go after distributers as they are usually the big players. Same as drugs, stop the dealers and youll stop the sales.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

1 gig a day may be enough to run a small business, but it can still be easily used up, streaming, full software packages, beta testing software, email, web browsing , game demos, software demos, backing up data, mp3s and movies

before you start of on me on the piracy issue, just remember 2 things, don't label people please just because you dont use much traffic it means to use more cant be right, right? There are places now where you can download movies legally and in the future this will become much more popular, the future is content and big downloads, the future is higher bitrate streams, the future is online content live with it. Also the competition seems to be disagreeing with ntl.

Adsl - 2mbit to homes
BY - 2mbit to homes
NTL - 1mbit to homes with 1 gig/day cap

hmmm let me think about this, are ntl thinking of the future or are they thinking of now.

the truth is womble it is possible to run an isp without stupid limits, otherwise 90% of the ADSL market would have gone bust.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I got no problem disclosing what I download but to be quite frank it is noone's business for the record I will be probably be under 30 gig this month, (used 12 gig so far) but its the future and other user's I am concerned for, and also when I myself might want to download 50 gig 1 month.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Fair point for your own use 1 gig may well be fair but how does that help every other user?

Do I assume that the lack of comment on the point about NTL needing to be open and honest means you agree 100% with the point I make?

Just so it is clear, the reason we are asking NTL to rethink this policy is partly to ensure that heavy users do not impact on your enjoyment too.

As currently worded the AUP has no chance of doing this.

If a more appropriately worded and enforced AUP was put in place then it would help "average" users like yourself and this would make it a selling point rather than a turn-off for most "average" users.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

So ADSL companies can and do provide restricted usage packages, that the inferior ntl service seemingly could not provide.
At least you now agree that excessive usage that is not causing congestion is ok.

Get the monitoring software to monitor the peak and off-peak times, and you might as well also monitor the most off-peak times as well (sleeping hours midnight-ish till 8ish). It's not that difficult to do monitoring. Then we can make progress. You still haven't given a valid reason for treating the sleeping-hours the same as the peak hours.
You're missing the point again.
Bandwidth is present and hardly being used in the most off-peak periods, such as the sleeping hours. There is no justifiable reason for more or unlimited downloading to be allowed in that period. It causes no disruption, all that is happening is that, what is there is being used instead of being left idle.

The monitoring is also simplified, as there is no monitoring needed to be done in that period (normal sleeping hours).

There is complete logic in treating that period (normal sleeping hours) differently, and encouraging more users, and especially the heavy users, to use that period more as it will not affect their cap limit.

This is the logic that I/we have tried to drum into the ntl mindset, at great length, but their minds were closed to suggestions of any kind of logic.
As I have said before, logic is not one of ntl's strong points, so I don't hold much hope of getting through the mindset, this time. However, I can but try.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

NTL should buy licences for netlimiter then supply to their customers so they can monitor their own bandwidth and cap it if neccesary, womble can I ask your thoughts on applying a cap with no isp provided means to measure traffic used?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Me too, my habbits might change in the future, bigger, better streaming, who knows.

I have got a dvd or too from usenet, had to try it.. see what all the fuss was, but took too long.. 12 hours a movie.. no thanks.

I don't want to be recieving letters/emails/bombs etc, for using a connection legally.

If I was to be doing activity, that was not in the aup/t&s, then I would expect the hassle, but not for using the connection as I do.

They need to sort it out, and stop following BT -no-frills- AUP

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

rodd ure bang on, it should be a time of day thing, I would expect after this cap was introduced that congestion during peak periods was sligthly affected (as people will still use the net when they at pc) but greatly affected at quiet times meaning they probably near bottoming out now at 3am LOL

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Why not save more money and offer a heavy user type account for users. You can save the money by offering a connection only. No webspace or email......

A lot of techy users run there own mail and web - or host elsewhere as the NTL servers are too unreliable !!!

Give those users unlimited bandwidth during the off peak hours and limit the speed on a 1mb to say 600k during peak hours. 600k is more than ample for web browsing and any heavy file downloads can be done overnight !

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

When your pulled over for speeding by the police, can you use the excuse you don't have a speedo?? (Odometer)...No. Measure your own usage. If ntl just cut you straight off I could see your point but, aren't the letters warning you that you have exceeded the limit??, and requesting you to slow down??

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Wrong.

I am a sound artist, I write, produce and remix electronica/downtempo music.

I collaborate with people in the UK, USA, Germany, France & Sweden.

In order to do so, I send via FTP and file trasfer either ICQ or MSN .wav files in order to maintain the quality of the tracks we're doing. It's quicker to send a 800 meg (full audio CD) via the net than it is to send it airmail to USA or Sweden.

I'll leave my PC running so I can send/recieve similar files, which can be easily a couple of GIG a day.

This is before I use a not-so-well-known-P2P-program, as there is a community on there of like-minded people who share 320kbps mp3 files of thier work, 95% of them are unsigned and it's a fantastic way to promote your music, get instant feedback.

So it is easy to exceed NTL's silly limit, they need sort this out, else they'll suffer in the long run, most people I know on NTL haven't been overly happy with the service in the last 6 months to a year, with the myriad of problems from proxy's to e-mail.

Companies currently offering 2mb lines for £35.49 (that's 49p more than NTL charge you for a 1mb line)

NTL, drop your pricing & increase the limits or you'll lose a lot of customers :wavey:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Where can you buy a car without a speedo?