Re: anti americanism fashionable
 

Are these the dams you are talking about Graham:dozey:

Waters slowly return, but life may never be the same for Iraq's `Marsh Arabs'
By Soraya Sarhaddi Nelson
Knight Ridder Newspapers, June 3, 2003

"Saddam built dams to dry up the very existence of the Marsh Arabs, or Madan, who challenged his rule 12 years ago. U.S. troops recently released water from one of the dams, part of a plan by Iraqi and American wetlands experts to rehabilitate at least part of the marshes on what is now 7,000 square miles of cracked moonscape....Yet the marsh isn't the same. The water, once fresh, came back salty. The depth in May was about 5 feet, compared with 12 feet when the Americans first released the water weeks earlier. The fish that returned with the murky water were small and inedible. Former fisherman Nouri al Asadi said the fish were so bad that he was convinced the damage was permanent. "If the marshes return, so will the people, but I don't think the marshes will return," said Asadi....Today, there is no sign of marsh reeds or rivers teeming with life. What used to be marshland is made up of gray clumps of cracked earth with sparse desert vegetation broken up by dry riverbeds. The Madan say the blinding dust storms that blow across south-central Iraq are a result of this devastation. Even in Chebayish, where some green fields flourish now as a result of the recent return of water, a scramble up the banks of one of the canals the Iraqi leader built reveals a moonscape as far as the eye can see. Experts with an Iraqi expatriate organization called Eden Again are spearheading the restoration effort, funded in part by a $200,000 State Department grant. But getting enough water to restore even part of the marshes may take years, depending on the acquiescence of Iraqi farmers and oil executives, who benefited from the drainage program. Agreement also is needed from Syria and Turkey, whose dams curb the flow of water into southern Iraq

Re: anti americanism fashionable
 

So any points I make are irrelivant but yours arn't? hmmmm.....

As I already said, the truth of these matters and the reason for them tends not to be apparent for decades. I am sure that there was a good tactical reason for bombing those dams.


While the Iraquis use ambulances to attack red cross buildings....


Now who's quibbling over words!
I believe that you yourself have called that kind of rhetoric an appeal to emotion, or words to that effect. (and lambasted me for it in the past)


What words exactly did I put into your mouth?:confused: All I said was: .


I don't see what Turkey has to do with this argument but if you want me to condemn Turkey for it's human rights abuses I will:confused: ....while we are at it, would you care to condemn Saddam for his and terrorists in general for theirs?

Re: anti americanism fashionable
 

On a slightly off topic note and hoping to lighten the tone...I thought Graham Nortons gag last night was hilarious:

Re: anti americanism fashionable
 

:D

Re: anti americanism fashionable
 

Ah, we're back to the playground again.

Re: anti americanism fashionable
 

No, because, once again, if you've clearly not *BOTHERED* to *READ* what I'd actually posted, instead of probably just taking a quick skim and then ignoring the facts.

Try reading:

http://www.nowarcollective.com/powellbio.htm

Note the section:

" In his memoirs, Gen. Powell recounts drafting a warning to Saddam one day before the beginning of the fighting, on Jan. 15, 1991.

" If driven to it, I wrote, we would destroy the dams on the Tigris and Euphrates rivers and flood Baghdad, with horrendous consequences. (Powell, 1995; p.491)

"The city of Baghdad that Gen Powell threatened to flood is home to 4 million civilians who are also victims of the dictatorship of Saddam Hussein. During the Gulf War, the U.S. deliberately targeted the water supply infrastructure †“ Professor Thomas Nagy of Georgetown University"

Or how about http://www.mediamonitors.net/gowans22.html

"During the Gulf War, coalition forces bombed Iraq's eight multi-purpose dams, destroying flood control systems, irrigation, municipal and industrial water storage, and hydroelectric power. Major pumping stations were targeted, and municipal water and sewage facilities were destroyed."

If you wish to make a fool of yourself, that's your business, but please don't try to do it by twisting *MY* words into something I never said.

Re: anti americanism fashionable
 

If your point is irrelevant I'm going to bloody well *say* it's irrelevant. Just as your post above about the dams affecting the marsh arabs was irrelevant because those dams were *not* designed to provide fresh water, but only to drain the swamps the Arabs lived in!

If you think it is relevant: prove it.

Ah, once again we mistake opinions for facts....

And yet again you reach for irrelevancies to try to cover up your losing arguments.

That isn't quibbling. Those are *facts* Please try to tell the two apart.

All you did was imply that I was *only* attacking "our side" and hinting that, thereby, I was somehow "supporting" the other side because I wasn't criticising them too. That is nonsense.

Clearly!

Certainly, I have never said that I *wouldn't*.

Re: anti americanism fashionable
 

What?:confused:

Re: anti americanism fashionable
 

I say again (and I said it before as well but you keep ignoring it):
'As I already said, the truth of these matters and the reason for them tends not to be apparent for decades. I am sure that there was a good tactical reason for bombing those dams.'


Exactly what words am I 'twisting' and how????:confused:

Re: anti americanism fashionable
 

I give up, arguing with you is like banging my head against a wall.

Re: anti americanism fashionable
 

We've lost site of the topic, we were talking about why the USA was unpopular, I think this thread has proven the point, regardless of how valid the counter arguments are.

Re: anti americanism fashionable
 

But saying this is just the same as carrying on the argument that's been going on for days ... except without backing it up with any facts! :banghead:

Re: anti americanism fashionable
 

The red cross was concerned of quantomo bay. Leaving the geneava convention. War on iraq with no evidence of WMD.

This fact may have got lost in the media spin - but was there any connection between iraq, alqui eda or terriorists :shrug: ?

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Re: anti americanism fashionable
 

I find it strange that the red cross is concerned with guantanamo bay but I haven't seen much about it being concerned with the ambulance launched suicide attack on it's Baghdad offices. Is this just selective reporting:confused: