Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

ADSL subscribers get that on the 512Kb Tier tho, and bulldog offer upto 400Kbit uploads on the 4Mb service. I'm sure theres others that offer around mid 300Kb too..

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

There's nothing out there, believe me Nutty, I know. I'm desperate for a home user service with a faster upload than 256, but no-one does one nationally. I trawl the ISP related news sites on an almost daily basis hoping for news of a new service.

Bulldog do offer 400kb upstream, but it's on their unbundled exchanges in Central London only. I'm hoping they will unbundle in Manchester, another reason for going to them for ADSL. The only other option atm is SDSL and the cheapest I've seen that for is £165/month for 1Mb each way. About £100 over my budget :(

If you do know different. You might have guessed I'd be very interested to hear :D

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Thanks for the welcome Kitty :)

The Broadband Plus offering does seem a bit of a waste of time given the low daily cap, whats the point of paying extra for something you can't fully use ?

Klaus, I assume the powerusers group was something that was created the last time the cap issue reared its head ?

Personally in the few days since I've had the NTL connection I've averaged about 500 meg a day download, and about half that uploading, and I suspect that will be my usual type of usage, but I now feel that the reason I chose NTL 1mb Broadband (double the speed of my old DSL connection) was flawed as I should have maybe gone with the NTL 500k connection and saved myself £10 a month as the extra power of the 1mb line is wasted, as I'm now afraid to use it !

Its like buying a Ferrari and only being allowed to drive it at 10 mph for half of the day, while the bloke on the Bike next to you goes past at 20 mph the whole day.

Perhaps if NTL are sending everyone their Broadband Plus 'offer' we should all politely refuse giving the cap as the reason ?

Oh dear, my second post seems a bit whingey as well, I'll get me coat......

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Its almost like reading the original cap thread what you are saying we all posted 12 months ago.
Most can see the unfairness of the whole situation. Just NTL managment are blinkered and cannot see.
We will carry on trying to get something better but it is hard to see.

It should be a monthly aup aswell not daily as most people will use the internet more at weekends than during the week.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

It's a shame you've joined the service when you have IanUK. My opinion is that only very heavy users like myself will get letters. I reckon NTL will let most people go over the limit, as long as they don't do it continuously and to massive degrees. This is just my opinion and they could very well change tactics in the future, who knows? My point being that if you had joined six months ago and used the service as much as you wanted to, I doubt you would have a letter. So now you wouldn't be put off using the service.

The Powers User Group was brought in after so many customer complained last year when the cap was brought in. They set it up so heavy users of the service could discuss with NTL how new services could be brought in with us in mind. I filled in one questionnaire on the matter and that was the last I heard.

NTL need to either confirm what levels of use equal 'abuse' or introduce a more reasonable cap system. Leaving customers in the dark will just anger them and put off future customers.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Oh its not that bad Klaus, I think my usage will be under 1 gig a day mostly, but its just put a shadow over it and they certainly won't be getting me to pay for any other internet 'additions' when they penalise you for using them.

I've found the actual speeds very good, and am quite happy with the service from a technical point of view, its just the fact that 150k users have the same cap rate as 1mb users that is completely ridiculous.

As Kitty points out that most of this has been covered before I'll shut up, I've had my little say, so if anyone from NTL reads this thread they can see my unhappiness at the unbalanced system.

I'll leave it there for now.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

NO don't stop its interesting seeing all what has been said before being repeated by people who are new to NTL. This can only prove we are more in tune with each other than NTL ever will be.

If everyone shuts up then NTL have won. Mind they won lastime as the cap is still there 12months later and now being enforced by the looks of things.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

In January my downloads totalled 267gb, that's an average of 8.9gb per day. However, my upload was only 21gb. The instant NTL tell me to stop is the day I cancel my subscription.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Fair enough ------ What would you want done if your next door neighbour started running emule, kazza and ftp 24/7 and it reduced your connection to a crawl ?????

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I think you should be kicked off the service right away. I thought I was a heavy user but the most I have downloaded is 82GB and uploaded 33GB.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Oh well, life goes on...

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I pay for a service and I intend to use that service, if I want to download 24 hours a day then I am entitled to and until someone tells me otherwise I will continue to do so.

To say I should be kicked off just proves to me how ignorant you are. It's people like you which annoy me, just because I download more than you I should get kicked off. Get real!

If NTL only want me to download 1gb a day than I should be paying about £3.50 a month and not £35. I did not get 1mb so that I can download web pages quicker, I got it because I download alot.

Since having NTL broadband I have not suffered any slow down and to blame poor network performance on heavy users is pathetic. The poor performance is down to a poor network!

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

8.9gb a day? WHat are you doin man? Too much porn! Is 8.9gb/day even possible?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

These letters, it's first point of contact.

I'm more interested in follow-ups, what next?

What happens if you say "Ok NTL, hands up, I've exceeded 1GIG per day, where do we go from here?" (this is on the proviso that you continue to exceed the 1GIG per day limit)

I remember reading the HUGE thread a year ago, and people were saying the same then, will they then suggest a pay for what 'extra' you've used scheme, or will they simply terminate your internet service?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

The most I have done is 10.9gb.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Why should he be kicked off the service? Those of us who signed up before the addition to the AUP, signed up to an unlimited service. We pay extra for faster access because we are heavy users of the Internet. That is who the 1Mb service is aimed at. Now we are penalised for using the service to it's full potential...

Klaus

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Totally agree!

I would even pay more for a faster connection which would mean that I could download even more. Alternatively, if I had 2mb connection then I could download what I am currently downloading at twice the speed and therefore free up all that bandwidth more quickly for those that don't want to use it. :D

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I totally agree with you there, if NTL can't handdle its users, then it is not fit to offer a 'Broadband Service'. If you pay for a service then you bloody well use it, surley thats the idea of having a service such as this.

If it is causing NTL problems then its due to their network, and up-to them to sort it out without stating what is the ammount you should be allowed download. :rolleyes:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

:zzz:

When will people like you understand that you are paying for a CONTENDED service, with data rates of UP TO 1mbps? You are NOT entitled to download that amount of data on a contended service at all, and frankly you are being selfish.

If you want to download at 1mbps all the time, you should be paying £700 per month, not £35, because THAT IS WHAT IT COSTS. You are using far more than your fair share (incidentally, 1gig/day is TWICE your fair share).

There is nothing wrong with the network. Contention is applied on the local loop because that is the physical design of the system. The backhaul network is flying, and does not suffer from contention at all.

Unfortunately, people like you who are stealing from ntl are preventing them from investing in the network, and forward moving. They have no interest in providing 2mbps, because people like you will just download 600gb/month, costing them a further £700 or more per customer, for a measly £20 or so extra.

Until you accept that you have a contended service, those of us who want higher bandwidth services despearately just aren't going to see them. Please wake up to reality.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

It looks like we're back to the same situation we had when all the phone companies started to sell 24/7 connection for only £5.99 a month. They forget to tell you that they only want you to stay connected for only 7 hours a day. If a company sells a service to me than I am going to use it when I want to and for as long as I want to. If NTL said straight off, you can only download 1gb a day do you think I would have subscribed, no way.

I understand about contention and if 20 neighbours were using NTL broadband all at the same time then the service would be pretty poor and you would have to be very unlucky if you were ever in that situation. However, the one's with any common sense would then decide to ditch NTL and pay someone else to deliver them a decent service.

'stealing from ntl ' :rolleyes:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Even though you like I signed up for an "unlimited" service, even we agreed to the original AUP which already had a fair use section. It just wasn't clearly defined what would be classed as outside "Fair Use" in the original AUP.

End of the day the sort of 24/7 use you are doing is a clear abuse of the system and other users in your area would be fully justified in suing NTL for NOT kicking you off the network or at least curbing your activity.

Without being funny the sort of highly excessive use being advocated by a few now actually ruins the case being made for an "Intelligent" fair use policy to be put in place.

Worse than that it actually helps NTL justify the current policy and lets them off the hook as regards reaching an intelligent and effective compromise. What we all need is a revised system which is fair to all whilst still helps maximise both potential usage and improves the overall quality of service.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

That is a vailed point, that it is costing NTL a lot of money, but if they cannot handle then why offer the service?
On the other hand if this is causing people problems, then they should turn down users who wish to use the service for mainly for downloading. But as NTL is a business its all about money and they won't do that.

Also them who do want faster connections, but are *having to wait* because of users who download a lot, i think is utter nonsence. If someone wanted a 2mg connection then they would have it for the speed of downloading, or other things that require fast speeds/a high amount of bandwidth.

Also in this day and age, an issue like this can only get bigger. As files sizes increase .

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Do you really think that if NTL got rid of all their 'heavy users' and made everyone stick to 1gb a day that they would spend all that money that they would save on improving their network? I don't think so. They wouldn't have to because people would hardly be using it whilst still paying over the odds for their connection.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Sure, I agree with that, but at the same time bandwidth isn't free. I don't agree with how ntl implemented the cap, or their limit of 30GB for that matter, but I do think that a limit such as Clara's of 150GB or something is very reasonable. 267GB is not reasonable on a contended service.
I didn't say that at all, I said that 267GB was ridiculous and gave an example of my usage.
If we are talking about ignorance, then you have a lot to learn about bandwidth costs...
Not really, it is about both.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

But they aren't offering a 250GB+ bandwidth allowance. Simple as.

If they want to offer a reasonable limit then fine, but I do think their current limits are stupid, backward, and not thought out well, and you are of course right when you say file sizes are only increasing.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Hi,

As i understand it, It is not the downloads that affect the network..

But the "Uploads"

Same kinda princaple can be used for your own connection, you upload at max, your downloads are going to suffer.

Same as the uBR I guess.

I could be totaly wrong about this, but after reading Robins help guide, thats the impression I get anyways.


Have fun

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Perhaps, belatedly I come to this thread. Indeed it is perhaps stranger that none of my Anticap colleagues have got here before me.

I'm just working my way through all this, and wish to avoid a "knee jerk" reaction, but the phrase "there's no smoke without fire" does spring to mind to all those who thought that the cap stuff was just hot air, when it appeared out of the blue just over a year ago.

If ntl think that many of their customers are going to put up with this, I hope they will have to return to the drawing board. This forum is full of examples of poor customer service, poor email service, poor installation service, low speed service (compared to stated service speeds), etc. Combine this with, as was originally complained of at the time the policy was first placed in the AUP, an absence of any effective ntl supplied means for customers to monitor their own bandwidth consumption. If the cap is to be applied, there really becomes little if any point for many subscribing, especially to the higher speed tiers.

I can assure you that anticap.co.uk is going to be watching this very closely.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

It's about time they started sending these letters out.

Personally I have no interest in downloading the entire internet each month - but I do have an interest in my connection responding speedily - which it does not do when some of these selfish people are downloading their 300GB a month.

Please - all of you who want to do this, don't moan and threaten to leave - just do it now - and leave the rest of us to enjoy our nice fast connections.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

i pay good money for NTL to provide me with an internet service with excellent uptime and speeds, if there network cannot cope with the pressures at UBR level then that is there fault, for not keeping the infastructure in check, there were no limits or guidelines or restrictions or information telling me to 'consider' my usage for other users when i signed up, i know its a contended service but if other companies can do it why not NTL ?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

What makes you think they can ? You would have exactly the same problem if you were on ADSL with the "standard" 50:1 contention ratio - if someone started downloading 300GB a month then it would affect the other 49 - if a few started it then the rest would be in trouble. That is the whole problem of a contended system - you share the bandwidth, if one or two start hogging it then the rest suffer.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

maybe because other compaines can actually provide many of there customers with a good service, i know of plenty of people in my area who have ADSL with the same ISP and dont have contention problems.........

in theory does NTL not have a far lower contention ratio ?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

A little OT I guess, but it was mentioned here, so here is a logical place to put it. I was checking the bulldog site for the 4mbps service and saw this:

Special promotion/limited period? What is? The price? The availability? Either way it doesn't look good, I suppose. Either the price is going to sky rocket in a few months, or they will stop doing it altogether :(

It's strange how they are implementing a residential service in Central London only. For a residential service, it would of made more sense to start implementing it outside-in, where most people live. It's a shame. I'd seriously consider signing up, especially with the 400kbps upload and no limits. I don't really break the NTL cap (for my downloading habits, it's more a case of timing, rather than moderation), but its always nice not to have to worry.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

wrong, the bulldog 2mb product quoted at £37.99 a month is NOT 512MB off peak. you're confusing it with the primetime product they offer at under £30 a month which IS 512mb off peak. I think that's already been pointed out though.

but also it's worth noting that Bulldog call it 2mb but that includes overheads... the actual speed you get will be in the region of 1.7mb! unless things have improved since I last read the forums on ADSLGUIDE.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Has anyone sent this to theregister.co.uk yet?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

That would be upto the customers who received the letters I would have thought.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

There are a lot less ADSL customers atm so it's not going to be such a problem yet. I know plenty of NTL customers who don't have contention problems, but you can never have a 100% perfect system. Let's remember that ntl have an awful lot of BB customers (800,000+ ?) so if even if only 0.5% of them have a problem at any one time then that is still 4000.

I don't know what ntl's contention ratio is, or even if you can measure it in the same way for cable.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Perhaps some of the users on here should look up the cost of a 2mb leased line ! :eek:

They may get a bit of a shock..... A leased line is the only service where I would consider constand downloading/uploading as all the bandwidth is mine.....

Theres a big difference between the two !

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

ADSL coverage has grown greatly so has the number of users, as other companies start to lower prices for the relative speeds more and more will join, at the moment most ADSL companies can cope, the minority on the cable system dont cause as much problems, its a gross mis calculation on NTL's part, they relied on download usage to be 'modest' rather then high upload usage, they were wrong, and download and upload usage is high.

just look at the cable systems current capabilities.......

ADSL is 50:1

NTL is 20:1

although NTL's is said to be 15:1 in some areas it varies.

* is patiently waiting for his 2mbit ADSL line be activated with unrestricted rights for download or upload

and no its NOT a leased line :rolleyes:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

That sound cool.... But what will happen when all the users on your adsl card are downloading/uploading 24/7 ????

With a leased line you are garenteed the bandwidth - you are not with a domestic line !

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

well that wont happen, i think the company im going with uses its own pipe......

even if it does happen i have NTL, always been 100% with speeds i cant complain :)

and the cost rises, unless your willing to pay ? no thank you......

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Hi Kronas who are you getting the 2mbit adsl from I have a friend who has just migrated from one ISP after 3 months of hell speeds to another where he says things are great.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

hello hun :naughty: ;)

well im going with central point ADSL, there were a few other companies i could have choosen but this seemed good enough for me, i rang them a few times to ask them the relative questions i needed to know and they were instantly responded to in a polite manner, even got called back once with the information within minutes. :D

it costs £35.49 VAT inclusive for 2mbit

Will you introduce bandwidth capping or restrict my downloads ?

We have no intentions to restrict bandwidth, please remember that we buy this service from Telefonica.


http://www.cpbb.co.uk/

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I've just had a look at the cost of a leased line, and wow, it is suprising!!

I don't think I use 1G a day, although I do have XBL, and don't take into account that, and am happy with my service, although I think I would get a little annoyed if it was slow.

I think the principle of the cap is a good idea, although I agree that you shouldn't get the same for 150 and 1024.

I think the only way it could ever perhaps become fair if some 'pay as you go' type thing came in - Now I know this would irk people, myself included, but why should my connection be compromised because of other people? You're right, I could download or upload more, "to get my moneys worth", but if I did that the same as the heavy users, then their connection would be affected, and the'd probably get more upset about it than me!

In fact that might be the way to go - everyone ul/dl 100% when you're not 'using the connection' ie browsing or wanting to download something, just to annoy the heavy users. Now I don't actually think that, but I'm just being Devil's Advocate. I have no problem with anyone downloading anything providing it doesn't affect me. If it does, then of course I'm gonna get annoyed - I use it 'fairly'.

Anyway I think that's my rant over - the first I've made on this issue, but once again, just bear in mind that if the heavy downloaders all switch to adsl, then that's gonna get a lot worse on adsl and better on NTL! oh look - you'll all be moving back ;)

oh and the costs of those leased lines (with pipex, monthly...)

64K 58.25
128K 112.50
256K 216.67
512K 416.67
768K 625.00
1024K 820.83
1526K 1208.33
2048K 1625.00

So surely pipex aren't really gonna offer 'unlimited 512K' for £30 a month or whatever, if the service can't cope with it, which it wouldn't if everyone used it all the while.

And incidently how many of the 1M or 'heavy users' customers would switch over to one of these services?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Sorry for reposting some of my post from yesterday which got sent off into the other thread...but some of is more relevant to this thread now than the other one.....

Here are some solutions. They ain't fool proof, but they're better than the crap that we all have to put up with right now:

1. Pay per use. Simple, take £25 divide by 30gb . you now pay 83p per gb downloaded and uploaded.

2. NTL put contingency plans in place to ensure that their infrastructure copes with demands of traffic. It is inexcusable to blame other customers 'leeching' for me not being able to have an acceptable level of bandwidth.

3. This can be backed up with SLA's (Service Level Agreements). If they do not meet the terms of the SLA, then there can be a very simple metering of percentage of bandwidth versus SLA bandwidth, and if you get half the quoted sum, then you don't pay 83p per gb, you pay 42p per gb. Just like when my commuter trains are so bad I get a percentage discount every month becuse they run below the metered standards.

4. Now I'm on shaky ground here, but I am sure some techical bod with the brain the size of a planet will be able to tell me if this can be done or not.....

Why not group these 'leechers' together and average users together and then the light users together? Would providing bigger pipes to the leechers (cos they're paying more after all now) normal pipes to most of us and smaller pipes to the light users, surely this will mean that everyone (who now pays accordingly) gets the bandwidth they need. Would this work?

5. Another shaky one....could I not elect to increase my bandwidth at a time when I knew I wanted to download lots of stuff, watch streaming videos etc etc etc?

I know that when you rent space on satellites you can do this, when you buy space on transatlantic cables you can do so on a short term basis, even minutes...but what about us mere mortals?

Why can't I select to move myself over to the 'leecher' pipe, and increase my speed to 2mb? I would then be charged accordingly, exactly the same as if I stuck with the 600k, but it would be over in one quarter of the time, which then frees up the average space bandwidth again. Would this work?

Just some thoughts from Planet Common Sense!

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Hmmm, intresting thing there and I don't know if you caught it......

Let me re-phrase....


We have no intentions to restrict bandwidth, however, please remember that we buy this service from Telefonica, and they're gonna get damn annoyed if our customers max out their connections, preventing their other customers getting a decent service


oh, and from the faqs.......

Are speeds guaranteed ?
As with all other ADSL providers speed cannot be guaranteed, however we are using Telefonica's network and they are one of the largest providers in Europe, the also provide services to other household name ISP's, so you are in good hands.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

they look like ways around the problem but to be able to do this you need to know what you are using. Which takes you back to the other thread..

Before NTL enforce these things the need to settle the other problems. resegment bring in the way to monitor than implement these new methods to control over use.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I think that although it does state was an 'unlimited' service, it is no longer unlimited. Sure the 1Gb cap a day is rather useless as you can only get about 3 hours usage of it on 1Mb and roughly 6.5 hours usage on 600k (latter is just calculated quickly nothing scientific :pp ) but I think downloading 300Gb a month is a bit excessive - it would equate to downloading 10Gb a day - what exactly is it and what do you do with it?

Personally my usage varies throughout the week and some days can be heavy (2Gb is probably the highest I have ever used) and some days it can be light (100Mb/200Mb). It is not constant 24/7 leeching day in day out. It maybe a fast service but you've got to remember that it is contended (ie. shared) so have respect for other people using it. NTL might be at fault for not providing enough capacity at UBR level and thus the service being crap, slow and badly pinged but what people have to realise is that they have come out of bankruptcy protection, which means they will not have much if not any cash to spend on the network.

However if you think a 1Gb a day 'cap' is bad, then try living down in Australia. You have to pay for a certain level of amount of Gb's you can download per month and if you go over that, then you have to pay per Mb. Let's just hope that doesn't come to the UK. :eek:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I've just had a look at the site you suggested - hmmm me thinks I'm happy with NTL!

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

You are right on some JustAnotherN00b but not all telefonica are the same some have their own network using telefonica to just get the customer to the fat pipe. Take fast 24 they have their own network with routers up and down teh country. They have games servers 1 hop from the authentication router. They do still have some speed issues on the higher end but not as many as other telefonica ISPs.

To decide to move from Cable to ADSL it really needs some research and perhaps access to the forums these ISPs use.


Like all ISPs NTL have faults communication being their worst area is communication. The charge per gig for heavy users seems good but I can see problems there and perhaps a chance for NTL to get greedy and charge everyone more.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

What would people say is a reasonable amount to charge per extra GIG of data being downloaded? either totalled on a weekly or monthly basis?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Yes I have noticed this, and so it appears that ntl themselves are not following their own guidelines.

I think that if ntl were to set sensible limits, such as 100GB download a month, then there would many less problems. At the moment we have 1GB/day for 3 or more days in a 14 day period. How stupid does that sound? If they are going to have such a limit then they should define it in a clear way. i.e. 30GB/month.

IMHO, the problem is that ntl are not following their own guidelines, and are only sending letters to massive abusers of the service. They then report this on these forums, and everyone else starts worrying about going over 1GB/day for 3 or more days in a 14 day period, when this isn't what ntl are enforcing.

The first step to sort this ridiculous situation out would be to clearly define acceptable use at a reasonable level (imho different on each service level). Then they could enforce this and it would be clear what the limit was.

Only a stupid compnay would enforce a different limit than that in their guidelines, because surely they must realise that publicising a 1GB/day for 3 or more days in a 14 day period limit is only annoying their customers, not discouraging them from using, e.g. up to 100GB.

Madness.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Really says it all don't it :rolleyes: Stupid Cap - Stupid Company

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Totally agree Keyser. NTL should have put a lot more thought into this. 100Gb per month would be much more suitable. However, there are still people like me who want download more. So design a package for heavy users, not just force us to leave.

Some interesting and valid quotes regarding contention. Some of which I had not heard before. I am a heavy user and I know it. I also understand the model adopted by all the home user ISP's is not sustainable cost wise. Certainly not when users like myself exist.

After the caps were first announced last year, I expected other ISP's to follow suit. I was planning to move to a business ADSL line, as I understand I use my connection more than an average home user. However, I was doing this off my own back. NTL nor any other ISP afaik, talk about your usage of the line. If there really is an issue in maxing it out all month, you should be told this when you buy the product.

In the end NTL didn't enforce their caps, so I stayed where I was. Now they are enforcing them, I will leave. To my suprise very few other ISP's have introduced caps, perhaps the problem isn't as big as NTL make out? I still think the flat monthly fee model isn't sustainable. So ISP's will have to do something in the future.

For now I will go to another home user ADSL connection, having confirmed they have no plans of caps. However, I'm willing to pay business prices, but only when I'm forced to by the ISP's.

For those who are asking what us massive downloaders get, I'll tell you. I pay an extra subscription to two Usenet service providers. They have great bandwidth and can easily max out my connection. Once you are on a good Usenet server, you can easily download 10Gb a day. A complete guess, but I would say at least 100x that amount is added on an almost daily basis. And what you ask? Well DVD's and console games mainly. If it's there to get, why not get it?

Klaus

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

For sure, that was supposed to be what the "Power Users" group was for.

Unfortunately this turned out to be a publicity stunt to calm people down, rather than actually work constructively with their heavy users.

Of course if ntl would like to prove me wrong...but then we have a member of the Power User group above saying he's heard nothing :rolleyes:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

E-mail to Director of Internet:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

central point is a reseller, having said that i have seen the feedback and not 1 unsatisfied customer yetwith regards to speed , all have been prasing them.

and ?

i dont think there is any ISP offering guaranteed speeds on a residential line......

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Anyone who gets a letter claiming that "customers in your area have been experiencing deterioration in the service" should know that their first line of defense could be the 'traffic report' function of DocsDiag

Here's some example output for my UBRwhich shows in my case that at the time of this snapshot only a third of the current capacity is being used.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Nice mail Keyuser, I hope you get a reply.

obvious, I'll give that a go. However, as a heavy user, I think I would be one of the first to notice any dips in performance. I pay close attention to my bandwidth usage and it's been fine for the past 18 month, not including a few outages.

Can anyone who has experienced slow-down, say in what way it showed itself?

Thanks

Klaus

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I can assure you the power users had nothing more than emails saying they was accepted to the poweruers and would be intouch. I had an email copy here including headers that asked us to fill in some questions, the OS and number of pcs connected to how many in the family.

That was the end of the powerusers as the emails I sent after this never was replied to,

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I think that we have to look at the reason why NTL sought fit to introduce a cap, that being to avoid service being affected by users who were taking more than their fair share of the bandwidth available. Not every user who exceeds the guidelines set out in the AUP is affecting the service of others so why go after them?

The problem with having a "per month" limit on downloads such as the 100Gb that you suggest is sensible is that this 100Gb could be taken at any time during the month and could seriously affect other users dependant on the time that it was taken. Some users who are not using anything like 100Gb a month may increase their usage to make sure that they are getting the full 100Gb that they are "paying for".

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I'd recommend DocsDiag as a useful tool in any case. ntl could hardly claim that 66% capacity was being used by STB users.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

No 'and' really - there are places offering 512K connections that max out at 50K according to adsl guide - it's all well and good if it actually is that fast, all the time.

There a good point at http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthre...&Number=809256 feel free to remove the link if innapropriate

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

[QUOTE=chambece]No 'and' really - there are places offering 512K connections that max out at 50K according to adsl guide - it's all well and good if it actually is that fast, all the time.

if it isn't then i can leave at the end of the 3 month contract, thats what its there for!!!

i dont see the point in posting that link, i choose the company because it seemed a profesional outfit with a good reputation for speed quality, im not going to wait for NTL to provide 2mbit, i have waited long enough, its now not 'economically viable' for me to continue my 1mbit service with NTL, because i can get something around the same price but faster...

as long as i get between 210-250kb/s im not complaining. :D

and i will start a thread about it as soon as i get it.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

This is impossible to do if you have a SACM in the Ex C&W area as we can't be trusted to have the access. Security issues.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I'd hazard a guess that 9 times out of 10, the statement "customers in your area have been experiencing deterioration in the service" is a lie plain and simple.

Mind you that's assuming that they're only talking about contention issues rather than email/newsgroups/customer service/ etc etc ;)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I see where you're coming from, but none of the other ISPs that have such a limit have any problem, or discussions threads about them such as this, for that matter.

I don't see why users are going to increase their downloading, after all, if this logic was applied then all these users would have been downloading 24/7 before the cap.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

yes the policy is fundamentally flawed, if you look at the scope of what NTL are trying to tell us, they claim a few thousand users are bringing down the local networks around the country to a crawl, in some areas over subscription is a problem, but NTL should realise you sell a service to people with no guidelines on usage, you cannot tell a customer to then change there habits.........

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

hehe, Kronas, the link wasn't aimed directly at you - I totally aggree with wha tyou are saying really - If I wanted the extra speen, I'd probably look elsewhere too - I'm only on the 600K - that does fine for me, but I was a little concerned about xbl...

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Intersting stuff. I've mailed the legendary rdhw. Hopefully he'll be able to answer a few questions.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

ok i see, it just seemed the way you worded it...........

and whatever service you require, if you can get it cheaper why not take the risk ?

central point dont charge for xbl :naughty: :D

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Well, there's not much in it for 600K really - you can make a saving on 1M....

The other thing is we don't have sports and movies, and we don't really want the hassle!! whenever there's been problems they've sorted them out quickly, so no reasons to complain.

I do look around for best prices though - I was with Ionica for a while - now didn't that turn out to be a risk!!

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

The letter is just a circular that ntl sends out to various areas. It makes customers more nervous, who then usually cut back their BB usage, even those who are no where near the limit.

NTL find that is very cost effective, it reduces the need of doing any maintenance, and ntl can stuff more customers onto the connections.

If there really was a problem with your downloading, ntl will ring you and quote the days and excessive amounts that you have downloaded. They would also have detailed the days and amounts in the letter if it was more than, just a circular.

Don't worry about it, relax, put your feet up........and download.


P.S.
The answer, for those really concerned with such things as caps, is to change over to an ADSL company which has no cap. Not only that, but they also have double the upload speed of ntl, and mostly better service.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Nice e-mail Keyser,

Perfect example of why a user panel would provide an ideal way of keeping NTL in touch with the thoughts and most of all feelings of users on issues such as this.

In essence the change to the AUP was a renegotiation of the contract with all its customers. The problem was they neither consulted with, or even directly informed the customers, even after the change was made let alone before they implimented it.

What all of the various cap threads have demonstrated clearly is we, as customers, are prepared to come up with workable compromises that would actually help NTL benefit from having an enforcable AUP which would not annoy large chunks of the user base but would contribute to improving the current situation.

1gb cap question
 

OK so far today i have uploaded 400 mb and dled 1.30 I dont intend on using it so much tomorrow, is that ok? Also is there extra allowence given to customers with children during school holidays?

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I think it does depend on the frequency of how much you download if you constantly breach the limit by a few more GB's then that is a clear breach of the AUP. As far as I know there is no special allowancies, i.e such as school holidays etc.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

im sure the rule was breach the limit three times in two weeks you get a warning.......

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

The evidence is as the evidence in the letter.

The upload speed ntl 600k BB is 128k, with 500k ADSL it is 250-6k, btw.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Correct :)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Yep that was said, ntl did not mind if you went over the limit now and again but as I said though, constantly as in all the time is a clear breach etc.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

rodd, I don't see any evidence in the letter to make me think it may just be a circular. The fact that only a very few people have had the letter, makes me think it's more targetted than that.

Klaus

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

there should be an allowance. people dont realise that children play so much games, fomr 8am to 5am my computer is in constant use people playing cs and startcraft, i find that i cannot stay within my 1gb cap thats not excessive use.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

A fair point. People should take my 'guesses' with a pinch of salt. My guess would still remain though that ntl are targetting people based on individual usage and not on localised congestion. Call it a hunch.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Of course it's not surprising at all. My main point is that ntl should be (and could be for all I know) reacting to specific hotspots rather than just contacting the top 1% (or whatever) of bandwidth users.

Extreme example:- If a user were the only customer on a ubr, it wouldn't make sense for ntl to warn them about excessive usage.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

The implication originally was that monitoring would only apply when there was a problem and this makes perfect sense as to do otherwise would be a waste of resources.

The problem comes from thinking a blunt measurement of gigs per day provides the information to sort out who is actually impacting on other users.

A point I have made before is that a person always downloading just under a gig but doing it at peak times is actually more of a problem than someone else downloading 2 gig but doing so overnight.

The 1 gig a day rule therefore does not expose those that are actually the problem at all. In fact it may very well promote further abuse as people stick to 1 gig but do so when it is convenient for them not others simply to comply with the Cap.

The one exception to this is those rare cases where it can be seen that someone is canning the line 24/7 as they must by definition be doing so at peak times.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

The evidence is that they haven't given any evidence at all of it being more than, just a circular. (The evidence is as the evidence in the letter)

NTL must learn to write a professional valid letter, or it will treated accordingly, as just another circular in this case.

In the event that there really is a problem, the customer will be contacted again, and perhaps, next time in a more profession manner. In the meantime, carry on.

As for singling out Tiscalli quote {that Tiscali when they cut people's 512k service down to 64k don't even tell them full stop} end-quote, I've seen similar comments about ntl on nthellworld forums. Tiscalli isn't the only ADSL service anyway, there are dozens of providers to choose from, once you get away from ntl with it's almost zero option of choices.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

before you impose traffic limits you need to provide a way to monitor the traffic you use as well as setting sensible limits for each tier, providing burst traffic speed costs the isp nothing its just the amount of traffic you use that cost's the isp money, someone on a 1mbit connection using 1 gig a day cost the isp the same money as someone on a 150kbit conenction using 1 gig a day, so in reality we been ripped off.

Also take note of the problems we having at the moment in the broadband section of this site, seems random points of the net are going offline for ntl user's at the moment :(

also take note of the ongoing problems with the mail servers (months for me) and the dns servers.

There is no way you can mention that ntl are doing this to remian profitable so they can keep their network up to scratch because the fact is the network isnt up to scratch, and another fact is the bosses got a fat bonus.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Dont forget the Poxy Proxy's - My connection would be fine if it was not for them :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Hi everyone,

I got that mail as well today, I download a lot but not at the extravagant levels mentioned here. One thing though, the mail emphasises that it was sent "for the sake of all our broadband customers" and to ensure the best service for each NTL customer. Ok no problem about that, sounds fair BUT it seems a joke when NTL has "allowed" (by means of not securing their modems configurations properly) people to steal bandwidth from others. So NTL wants to put a cap on me paying £30 a month and on the other hand guidelines are all over the net on how to steal bandwidth so numerous illegal users download heavily every day on the expense of legal users. Why don't you try to sort that out first if you want a proper service and then enforce regulations to legal users NTL???? Oh and if I say to NTL that because of their lack of security in their configurations someone may have cloned my mac address and is stealing bandwidth from me and that is the reason why I have so big traffic figures how would they be able to defend themselves??

Get your services right NTL, sort out illegal users first who get 1mb connections for free and produce traffic of thousands of GB and then look on how to enforce a cap on legal users.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Don't bet on that JustAnotherN00b, unfortunately from what I've seen it's not at all "next to impossible to change a MAC address on a modem". I am totally against it and I don't want to go into details of how it could be done but I am sure others here can confirm that stealing bandwidth is possible and unfortunately it's not rocket science how to do it.
All the other comments look funny to me when at the same time I am reading about addresses trade. And as what it could be done to secure them or how to offer a very good service it's not really my problem is it? I am the customer not the service provider and I can see other companies having no traffic caps but providing a good service compared to the standards of NTL at least.So why would I choose NTL??

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I agree - please dont give that kind of info out....

NTL security is something that needs improving IMO but its not going to help anyone by highlighting any weakneses is it ???

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

I agree the less said the better, since there are ways to detect perhaps NTL should be looking on this issue first and then on the cap, just the phrase "Please, for the sake of all our broadband customers" on the mail looked very ironic to me, like I am the one who causes all the problems. end of discussion then :)

1 million that's good , let's see how this number is reduced after the actual enforcement of the cap :)

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

The monitoring side of it is a very valid point. When PlusNET can give users access through their website to their exact personally usage, why can't NTL?

I tend to side with JustAnotherN00b on the modem thing. Hacking cable modems used to be a big thing, but this was mainly in The States and mainly in the early days of cable modems. Cable operators have become much more aware since then and it sounds like NTL are doing most of things they could be doing.

You are right about MAC addresses, to an extent. A lot of routers you buy in the shops these days will let you change/spoof your MAC address. This is partly to help some cable customers who may need to spoof the MAC address of the nic they registered with. However, it's not nearly as easy on the cable modem supplied by NTL.

dimr, would you mind disclosing roughly how much you download/upload? It seems the majority of people with the letters are downloading and uploading close to the theorectical maximums.

Klaus

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Just pointing out the irony stuartbe nothing else on that subject!

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Unfortunately I don't have actual figures Klaus, my downloads surely exceed the 1GB per day most of the times. Upload traffic should not be that high as I am hardly using any P2P and I don't have a ftp/web server. I am going to install DU Meter to monitor the traffic from now on.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Really?

Take a look at FAQ #6 on the Gio Internet page

Are ntl opening up their network to the competition?

:confused:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Interesting point. Question is will they be opening them so all current ADSL providers can join in, or will it be NTL offering their own ADSL? I've heard rumours of the latter and I wonder how hard on a technical side the former would be?

Klaus

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Really? Then why does it say this...

:confused:

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

If the USA cableco's sent out letters as you indicated, ntl hardly needs to copy such bad practice, and there is no justification for it. The USA cableco's would also need to have indicated the amount of overusage to enable the customer to reduce sufficiently. However, we are not in the USA and have no need to copy any bad practice they have. Better to copy Japan's practices, or some other country.

NTL would also be better off, if ntl tried to copy other companies good practice, in whatever areas other companies were better in.

Quote { Zero options? Most ntl covered areas now have ADSL. ntl has nearly a million customers on cable modems, all of these have no choice? Sorry man you're pretty anti-ntl and it costs credibility. }.

You didn't read and understand properly what I said --
Quote { Tiscalli isn't the only ADSL service anyway, there are dozens of providers to choose from, once you get away from ntl with it's almost zero option of choices. }
To help, I have made bold and italicised the most relevant part.

As for being anti-ntl, that's nonsense, I am pro customer, yes, and anti bad practice, bad customer treatment, bad service and BS. I may have missed a few. NTL were at one time a lot better and a lot more competitive. Though I do understand, that you, being an ntl employee, will try to stick up for ntl, regardless of their deficiencies.... which costs credibility, methinks.

As I have said before, if anyone gets problems with ntl and their cap, or ntl is about to cut them off, go elsewhere to ADSL. Plusnet, as I understand it, there is no problem with a cap. There are plenty of other ADSL companies to choose from.

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

Dont wory - he will have a sore wrist and be blind most likely !! :D

Re: 1GB Cap Letter!!!!
 

ok..

If it's contended service, how the HELL can one person take ALL hte bandwidth away from everyone else ?

Is that not was contention is all about! .. How can one get 10g a day, on a service thats shared by other people, if they are *affecting* other users, they have to be affecting their own, so the chances of getting 10g a day is remote.

Aint not tech, never claim to be.. just pointing out the obvious