Re: Do you want this government out?
 

What does my household have to do with anything and how well off i have been in the past? Doesnt mean im not struggling now or will be if they make a foolish decision to make me fit for work when i know for a fact that atleast 1 of my medication i am on employers nor myself if i was to try to get self employed would be able to get insurance for me as an employee.

+ the bloke about terminal cancer is totally true and i dont know what he is doing about it because his health is very fragile and phaps doesnt want the hastle or cant take the stress thats totally upto him.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

While claiming that people that are sick will be looked after, even though they might be about £200 or so worse off. You don't hear about those that will lose all their benefits (thousands of pounds) because their testing means are not fit for purpose. Just ignore those ones and hopefully no one will notice. In the end there won't be many sick people left as they've cured everyone and they will be all in full time employment enjoying life to the full, contributing to society.

Job done.

I find that those with that are allowed an opinion because they probably do have the luxury of riding the cuts more selfish that those that live in fear. If they knew what it is really like then I'm sure then they'll think differently.

I don't think anyone disagrees with the need of the cuts or change, but it's in the manner that it is happening. Those that aren't affected too much will have the loudest voice, those like myself won't because to the like of those, we really don't matter.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

You're still buying hardware and able to go to the bar according to other threads, given you've more storage space than many servers, 5.6TB, evidently you're still not doing too badly, which is good.

It would be interesting to see how many more cases like that are around, I would hope the bloke it pursuing this via every avenue possible as it's obviously quite wrong. Hope it gets resolved as it's cases like that that we pay taxes to supply a safety net to.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Again i dont see what that has to do with things? What i can afford now doesnt neccessarilly mean i will be able to afford if they make the wrong descission + being able to afford something by saving for months doesnt mean im living in the lap of luxury.

If this was anyone else u wouldnt be picking at it since its me u will have a go but then again thats just life really isnt it.

---------- Post added at 10:19 ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 ----------

and where will these jobs suddenly appear from since jobs are getting less and less all the time.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

No it's your persecution complex as noted elsewhere by other people but believe what you will. If it's not me persecuting you it's a rude Virgin Media technician or another poster on here or elsewhere. Anyone with a PC costing well into 4 figures who is on long term sick would give a moment of pause.

Noteworthy is that I didn't actually pick on you I merely said that you seem to be doing ok I didn't make any claim about being in the lap of luxury.

Onto the topic in hand jobs are actually being created, the quality of those jobs in terms of conditions and pay is the kicker though.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

So do you really think in the present climate as it is, someone disabled, very ill, sick, can't guarantee that they will turn up every day, has to go hospital very often has the same chance at those jobs as those that have just come out of a job. Really what chance do these people have?

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Where did I even loosely suggest or imply that I thought that?

That question, loaded as it is, is obviously ridiculous. Obviously someone whose health is that precarious shouldn't be troubled with the requirement to work but should be receiving assistance to get well, or at least as comfortable as possible.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

So you don't see what really is happening. Those that are sick are being pushed back into work, they won't stand a chance of finding employment. (This is what Welshchris and I is saying).

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I'm not denying this will sadly happen in some cases, however there will be many who are not at all sick, it's likely things will go too far in the opposite direction before being brought back into order.

Blame the two previous governments for being more interested in the employment figures than actual employment :(

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Ignitionnet i am afraid to say many terminal people have been classed as fit to work by ATOS and many others with serious medical problems that are not terminal also have been classed as fit for work even though they have no practical chance of work. Atos is completely unfit for purpose they recieve bonuses for getting people off benefit even though 70%+ of their decisions are reversed on appeal the torment they cause to people is very real and very damaging.

They are an integral part of the whole benefit system reform with everyone on incap being sent back to them for asssessment which can be carried out by nurses and even medical receptionists. I have never denied there needs to be reform of the benefit system i have said many times on here we need to strike a better balance between providing for those in genuine need and the taxpayer having the security that their taxes are not going to workshy lazy gits.

We all know well most of us that inhabit reality that we need to take serious measures to eliminate our national debt but the way the most vulnerable are being targetted at the minute is leaving a pretty nasty taste in my mouth. This government like many in the country as a whole i don't think realises how badly ATOS operates you yourself clearly know little about how incompetent they are so i am not surprised many support what they do.

There are many areas of public spending other then welfare that saw massive rises under labour where money could be cut without too drastic an affect on the public but we seem to be seeing cuts where they are doing a lot of damage. Also maybe i have missed it but i havnt seen anything on hitting the absolutely huge tax evasion that goes on in the UK costing the country as much as the welfare budget surely if things are so bad we should be chasing that as well.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Little time to deal with things Rizzy but the whole 'tax evasion' thing is quite badly overstated and being dealt with as much as is feasible. Before bemoaning the UK not collecting taxes do bear in mind where most of these will come from - end consumers. Increase company costs by changing tax regulations and they will simply increase their prices to compensate, as they would for any other cost.

ATOS does indeed sound completely unfit for purpose.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

and you think it only applies to one party only?

---------- Post added at 11:17 ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 ----------

ignition he may not have told the media or its entirely possible the media may not have been interested.

Yeah atos is actually costing the state a lot of money, these lost appeals are expensive. so it is noone's interest for them to take place at all.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

It just goes to prove how thick and stupid this government is, when they are considering a u turn on defence cuts.

This country MUST have the armed services at full strength, otherwise we can be targeted at any time, We now have the Libby thing, when you think that it had hit this country twice, Firsly our armed services are in several countries, now we have them in Libby.

And then we have the police services on stanby in case of any aggro in this country.

I think what the government have done is open there gob before thinking.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

no u didnt pick on me its just that u happened to SUDDENLY make the thread all about me when i posted and u didnt do it to anyone else yeah fair comment i believe u

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Thanks Hugh

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

My apologies if you felt that way, I've been 'picking' on Arthur throughout the thread though and making it about me also as that's the best way I can think of to phrase my argument on this issue. It's a big issue however most of us will feel the impact most keenly as individuals and things are sometimes best phrased as such.

---------- Post added at 12:12 ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 ----------

Depends, you could consider it as opening the gob before thinking or doing something most unusual for recent politics and listening to people and experts and taking their opinions on board.

We are not going to need the armed forces at full strength else we could be targeted at any time, we are a member of NATO and a nuclear power, the biggest threats to us are, by far, from terrorism. Any country that declares war on us by default declares war on a huge swathe of the free world with masses of conventional forces and over 12,000 nuclear weapons as we have a mutual defence pact with them.

Spending less isn't always bad you know. Depends entirely on how it's spent.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

No offence its nothing about the way i feel, a number of people on here, Thinkbroadband, Virginmedia forums and also when the VM Newsgroups were going picked up it was just me u would target so its nothing to do with having any sort of complex a number have noticed the same thing but as the mod said lets bring this back onto track.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Like Labour spent without thinking.

---------- Post added at 17:27 ---------- Previous post was at 17:26 ----------

Arthur

How old are you really ???

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Sorry but..... Pot - Kettle - Black springs to mind... (Well, actually - I am not sorry)

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

It's the way he tells 'em..... :D

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Why? ,Why must this country have a massive armed force? ,where is the threat? ,who is going to invade us ?

I ask these questions Arthur in the hope of an answer ...but i'm not holding my breath

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Arthur has never answered a question on this forum when asked to. He would sooner post his factless drivel in the vain hope someone might believe him.

He reminds me of some sort of bot thats posts every now and then to elicit a response when the forum slows down :LOL:

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Fear is a wonderfully self fulfilling circular argument Labour were masters of. Remember how complacent we were during the height of the IRA bombings. People didn't behave in a way that allowed fear of an attack to control our lives. We just carried on regardless.

The main reason I am glad Labour are not in government is down to how much control they wanted over everyone. From ID cards to the fear used to make everyone think being against them was unreasonable. When in reality there are more than enough existing methods to track people.

BTW I have never been pro Tory either. :dozey:

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I think it was a woman called Viv Nicholson (might be wrong) who was famous for winning the pools and saying spend spend spend, Labour modeled them selves on her with our money.

Is that what some truly think we should go back to.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

When Viv had her spending spree she would have had something to show for it ,after the 10 yr spending spree by the labour government do we have enough to show for it .If i took out a loan and spent it all on my house i would end up with a very nice house it may take ten yers to pay the loan back but it would be worth it because i would have increased the value and would have something to show for it ,can we say the same about labours borrowing ?

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

We do have something to show thanks to Labour.

A country ruined by years of Labour mismanagement. A country ruined by Labour top brass that like to call its supporters BIGGOTED. A country so far in debt it will take years to pay it back. A country with an opposition party who think and say NOT MY FAULT blame someone else. LABOUR the Viv Nicholson's of politics :LOL:

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I wonder if one of those solicitors that get your money back when ill advised about borrowing will be able help HMG :D

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Dont know ask Arthur :D, He has an answer for everything or so i have been told

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I am 59 years old, and am proud of my country, BUT l was brought up in a manner that every penny counted.

We must have a full strength armed services, as it has been proved that anywhere in the world, a war can break out and we are the first country to offer our galant troops.

What this government are doing is jumping in at the deep end before thinking, we the voters, voted for a givernment that gave so called promises (and Labour) and have hit us from both barrels.

We need a full strength armed services to protect our shores, we need as full strength police service to protect us, what have we had since the puppets got in defence cuts, police forces cuts to save money.

Yet they can find, now matter where it came from, 650 MILLION to fund another country, what about this country - our local hospital is making cutbacks and are going to lose 350 staff that includes Drs and Nurses, where is the sense, they can find funds, to give to another country, but cannot find funds to pay for local services - as the The Sun said (a Tory paper) Osborne is going mad.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Arthur - You are not paying any attention to what anyone is saying around you. For a 59 year old man - You dismiss anyone elses opinion, and or ignore the real facts and I find that just plain ignorant.

It has been pointed out to you several times now that the £650 Million pound handed to Pakistan, didn't just come from nowhere - this money was there in the funds that are allocated specifically, for the purpose of overseas aid.

We do not need a full strength Armed forces at this current time - There is no immediate threat to any war, and at the moment we cannot afford a full strength armed forces for reasons already explained to you.

Take bloody heed, the country is in massive debt, the country at the moment cannot afford life's little luxuries, so if you were actually a man who was brought up to believe that every penny counts, then accept the fact, CUTS are the necessary action to take place to control the debt burden.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Which Hospital is that then. 350 staff from one hospital is a hell of a lot of staff ???? And please Arthur answer the bloody question just for once in your life

Or if Arthur is unwilling to answer yet again, What area is Arthur in so we can chack on the facts

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Mick to backup your own argument tho we dont need to dish out overseas aid either. So why does it even have a budget?

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Yes we do need to dish out overseas aid, what a stupid thing to suggest that we should not dish out overseas aid - Overseas aid boosts UK reputation abroad, helps trade and industry overseas and helps to boost British exports and bring the UK extra revenue keeping people in jobs in this country.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I think he's in west london around twickenham area as i seem to remember that he whinged about the snow on the A4 not being cleared ,also the TW road being bad ,and i can't find any hospital anywhere in England that is laying off 350 staff ,maybe a group of hospitals under the management of a trust such as Leads but non local to Arthur

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

He's in Hounslow so would be referring to West Middlesex hospital.

http://www.allinlondon.co.uk/news/in...?news_id=13682

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

so it's not 350 jobs ,and it's not a immediate loss and most of the cuts are through natural wastage .I would also imagine that quite a few of the jobs are superfluous and were created to keep unemployment down

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

The same old Arthur bull excreter. No link to the information and no truth in the information given

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Perhaps he lives in Belfast that's losing 620 nurses this year alone, the scale of these cuts makes me wonder if we'll actually have a health service left once they are finished.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...ose-50000-jobs

---------- Post added at 19:26 ---------- Previous post was at 19:25 ----------

Rather Arthurs BS than Dave's, "I promise not to cut NHS frontline services"...

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Would you like to explain how Labour would have continued to spend at the rate they were if they had stayed in power and where they would have got the money from to pay back all that money they had borrowed and spent and spent again and then spent some more. ???

Labour, NO Boom NO Bust , Yea right more like NO MONEY because we have spent it all :mad:

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Err no I wouldn't because unlike you I have never voted Labour, you think this current government can get away with anything under the guise of cuts or something? Got news for you people aren't buying it.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I voted Labour once and that was the first time the lying git Blair got in. I will never vote for them again as long as i draw breath

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I seem to remember that when Blair gave the NHS a few extra billion in their budget he promised that it would not be for extra mangers but for nurses and doctors ,that proved not to be the case so i would say there is a lot of dead wood in the nhs that needs trimming ,probably in most other government run services as well

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

and I seem to remember Dave promising the extra couple of billion would be spent on management

The Tory-led government has asked parliament to vote an extra £1.8bn to pay for its big reorganisation of NHS management. This is wasted money which could pay for almost 15,000 nurses for the next three years."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...ose-50000-jobs

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

That seems to be a very loaded article based on information from a union led website .Whilst i am not denying that there is some truth to it i wouldn't put too much stock in the information especially as some of the figures are only proposals.
On another note i would hope that the NHS is exploring other avenues of saving money such as with external contractors ,drug suppliers and not just taking the easy option of reducing staff

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

it helps our reputation but I dont think it does jack for trade. Unless maybe the aid is used to buy weapons of us on the black market. In that case we just getting our money back.

---------- Post added at 22:08 ---------- Previous post was at 22:06 ----------

my question is why is there front line job cuts when the tories claimed (a) the budget is ringfenced and (b) funds shifted 'to' the front line.

so where is the nhs money going now?

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

well they do insist that the savings will be pumped back into patient care ,so in a way the budget is ring fenced all they are trying to do i think is reduce the over staffing and make it run more efficiently, and lets face it the NHS is not known for efficiency and cost effectiveness

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

There seems to be some confusion - the money is not being spent on management, it is being spent on getting rid of layers of management.

When you downsize the layers, you have to pay for redundancy/voluntary early retirement - unless of course you don't believe they should be treated the same as other workers.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Of course they shouldn't be treated the same, what other far out views you got Hugh, equal treatment for women :D

Oh look at that, the polls neck and neck...

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I see Arthur did his usual trick. Post crap and then not respond with evidence when asked to

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

The Hospital in question is West Middlesex Hospital and it was the local paper that stated it.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I think the following newspaper report may be the one Arthur is referring to although the figures and explanation seems to differ somewhat to Arthur's interpretation of the facts stated so maybe I have missed the articled he read..

http://www.hounslowchronicle.co.uk/w...9642-28438810/

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Yes Arthur evidently has some difficulty getting to grips with facts.... :D

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Should that not be manipulating the facts to fit an agenda ?

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Arthur has the same relationship with facts that fish have with knitting......

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Fish probably can knit. it's just that nobody has given them the opportunity.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

That just made me spit my coffee out :LOL:

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Or the opposable thumbs.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

or indeed thumbs of any orientation

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

What has their sexuality got to do with it? ;)

Anyhoo, surely one in five of every fish finger is a fish thumb.........

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

They're not really fishes fingers, Hugh. they're just fish meat covered in batter.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

How the hell did we start this thread with a intelligent and thought provoking discussion on the uk government ..and end up talking about fish fingers :confused::shrug: ....oh i forgot it's one of Gary's threads :D

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Not mentioning no names. but it was Hugh :D

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Tiktaalik - Time Magazine ;)

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

breadcrumbs:)

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

yes as soon as Possable:mad:

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

Any particular reason? :)

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I would say wait until after the May elections, and there will be a vote of no confidence in the government.

The Lib Dems / Tories will be crushed, and they will seek a new leader, that is gurranteed.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

The May elections will indeed be amusing. Tons of people wringing their hands in disgust at the idea of having to pay our own way and crying out for Labour's unsustainable but in the short term pleasant policies.

Add to that the sandal wearing Lib Dems horrified at their party actually having to grow up and play politics instead of being their ideological (if ineffective and unrealistic) wet dream and you have all the makings of a huge landslide to Labour.

Labour will always be the attractive option for many, they happily promise the earth with a straight face and absolutely no care for anything after the next election :)

EDIT: I say Labour policies using the term loosely as they don't appear to have any specific policies beyond to jump on whatever coalition bashing band wagon is rolling at the time and telling people what they want to hear.

Re: Do you want this government out?
 

I got a no AV vote leaflet, and I have to say marketing wise its a killer against the lib dems. The arguments made on it are very well put.

Even tho the tories are working with the lib dems they have no issue in attacking clegg hard on it.

What made me laugh tho is the claim on the leaflet that FPTP is fair as everyone has an equal vote. Yet in elections its marginal seats that decide the results. Not every seat.