Staff to gain right to request flexible working from first day

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

They have the right to request it, not to get it (without good reason).

I wasn’t aware we needed to have a law to allow us to ask a question. It’s unnecessary bureaucracy.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Paul

Thats been a myth in every company I have worked for.
The 'boss', i.e. my Managers have never had the power to do that.
Promotions can be proposed by them, but have to be approved by Directors & HR, its a slow process.
I would think thats probably the case in most companies these days.
(except maybe very small ones, who are less likely to have many WFH anyway).

So what info would Directors and HR have that would ignore a Managers opinion and knowledge? HR would override a promotion on the basis of quotas, ie they would discriminate.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I wasn’t aware we needed to have a law to allow us to ask a question. It’s unnecessary bureaucracy.

There’s a huge difference between an informal chat in the corridor and a formal request to change contractually agreed hours and patterns of work - but I’m sure you knew that…

---------- Post added at 21:25 ---------- Previous post was at 21:20 ----------

Originally Posted by nomadking

So what info would Directors and HR have that would ignore a Managers opinion and knowledge? HR would override a promotion on the basis of quotas, ie they would discriminate.

Budgetary constraints, perhaps knowledge of future potential departmental restructuring, feedback from other managers (as sometimes managers have "favourites", and they put their "favourites" forward for promotion rather than other suitable candidates in that area).

[nomadking]

The problems come when people are allowed to kick up a large fuss when they don't get their own way.
People in offices still need to be available to other staff and other people such as customers and clients. That means they have to be working the same hours as those others. No getting around that.

[Carth]

I'm sure none of us would mind being woken at 3am when the bin men come round, or that chap in the UPS van ringing the doorbell wanting a signature for the parcel he has

Originally Posted by nomadking

The problems come when people are allowed to kick up a large fuss when they don't get their own way.
People in offices still need to be available to other staff and other people such as customers and clients. That means they have to be working the same hours as those others. No getting around that.

I disagree - when I have worked at places where flexible working was available, all requests for flexible working were constrained by having to meet business needs; if there was no negative impact from the flexible working (work gets done, customer needs met, suitable cover available, etc.), it was granted - if it was assessed (or found after agreement) to have negative impact, it wasn’t granted.

We found flexible working improved work/life balance, reduced absence rates, improved staff retention, and made for happier & more productive colleagues.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Carth

I'm sure none of us would mind being woken at 3am when the bin men come round, or that chap in the UPS van ringing the doorbell wanting a signature for the parcel he has

Even in those 2 "examples", they require others to be working at the same time as them. Even the delivery driver has to have the depot open.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Even in those 2 "examples", they require others to be working at the same time as them. Even the delivery driver has to have the depot open.

Well obviously, but if enough people there request silly hours, and it works for the company, why not?

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I disagree - when I have worked at places where flexible working was available, all requests for flexible working were constrained by having to meet business needs; if there was no negative impact from the flexible working (work gets done, customer needs met, suitable cover available, etc.), it was granted - if it was assessed (or found after agreement) to have negative impact, it wasn’t granted.

We found flexible working improved work/life balance, reduced absence rates, improved staff retention, and made for happier & more productive colleagues.

Flexible working cannot work where there has to be some sort of interaction or cooperation. You can't be working on something and then suddenly find it needs the involvement of somebody else. The task grinds to a halt and is delayed overall.

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Flexible working cannot work where there has to be some sort of interaction or cooperation. You can't be working on something and then suddenly find it needs the involvement of somebody else. The task grinds to a halt and is delayed overall.

Workplaces generally have online diaries so you know when people are in or out. If you suddenly find you can't progress in your task and are surprised by it you probably have an inflexible work methodology yourself.

Originally Posted by nomadking

Flexible working cannot work where there has to be some sort of interaction or cooperation. You can't be working on something and then suddenly find it needs the involvement of somebody else. The task grinds to a halt and is delayed overall.

Again, I have to disagree - I have seen (and made) it work. You’re assuming only one person has each set of skills required in a team/department, when in a lot of cases, colleagues are multi-skilled, and self-manage workloads, knowing when people are available (also, usually people who had flexible working arrangements could be contacted if problems arose, because flexibility works both ways).

I have run departments of over 300 people, of which 5-10% had flexible working arrangements, and there were no insurmountable issues (because, as previously stated, working arrangements had to meet business needs).

I have made at least five flexible working requests in my current job.

All have been granted (the last one was to work 4 days a week instead of 5)

In the last month, almost all of my current team have requested permanant WFH.
We have been doing it for the last 18 months, so there is clearly no justification to deny it.

Surely if someone is working from home the expenses bill must be reduced? There must be savings to be made?

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Flexible working cannot work where there has to be some sort of interaction or cooperation. You can't be working on something and then suddenly find it needs the involvement of somebody else. The task grinds to a halt and is delayed overall.

Of course it can how do you think global engineering/development teams collaborate ? Pop on a plane and fly to another continent every time they need to

Zoom
WebEx
Chime
Slack

All the above can provide effective collaboration, just as effectively as being in an office

[Hom3r]

My last job had zero flexibility, and would close rather than be forced to.


We did a 9 day fortnight, which gave us every other Friday off.