Coronavirus - Page 243

**Chris** · 11-02-2021, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx

So who failed here? It sounds like the heads of state are not representing their respective countries interests at the EU Council, and that's a problem...

Well, I think it’s fair to say that perhaps a year or two from now, when the UK is holding a full public inquiry into the government’s handling of the crisis, the same exercise will not be taking place in the EU ...

We may never know, however I think the beginning of the problem was that the prospect of a grand act of unity was too tempting to pass up, and the member states probably jumped at it without thinking it through too clearly. Once the programme was up and running, seeing as it is outside of the treaties and the usual established processes of the EU, it’s not clear to me what oversight mechanisms might have been available, though the member states ought to have been watching very closely.

Mr K · 11-02-2021, 19:32

All very sad that folks are still trying to make Covid an EU/Brexit issue. It's a World issue where we need to act together. We'll never learn. Divide and conquer works for the virus too.

1andrew1 · 11-02-2021, 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Well, I think it’s fair to say that perhaps a year or two from now, when the UK is holding a full public inquiry into the government’s handling of the crisis, the same exercise will not be taking place in the EU ...

We may never know, however I think the beginning of the problem was that the prospect of a grand act of unity was too tempting to pass up, and the member states probably jumped at it without thinking it through too clearly. Once the programme was up and running, seeing as it is outside of the treaties and the usual established processes of the EU, it’s not clear to me what oversight mechanisms might have been available, though the member states ought to have been watching very closely.

UK public enquiries are noticeable for dragging on and on - just look at Grenfell. Don't expect anything of note to happen during this term of Parliament.

Pierre · 11-02-2021, 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh

https://www.politico.eu/article/comm...zech-republic/

https://www.eureporter.co/frontpage/...member-states/

I was thinking more like April/May last year. It’s all very well having a stock pile of ventilators now, so do we.

I meant when the Govt got lambasted last year for not joining the EU ventilator procurement scheme. At what time did those ventilators arrive? Was it before we increased ours.

By September we had 30,000 units.

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This is the kind of thing that will get peoples backs up.

COVID-19: Restrictions could be in place until all adults are vaccinated, expert warns
http://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-r...warns-12215570

Absolute nonsense.

jfman · 11-02-2021, 22:19

If only we could have foreseen that.

**Maggy** · 11-02-2021, 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K

All very sad that folks are still trying to make Covid an EU/Brexit issue. It's a World issue where we need to act together. We'll never learn. Divide and conquer works for the virus too.

**Paul** · 11-02-2021, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre

COVID-19: Restrictions could be in place until all adults are vaccinated, expert warns
http://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-r...warns-12215570

There is always one.

All adults will never vaccinated, there will always be those that are not.

That of course is before you even start thinking about those who turn 18 after the current programme of vaccinations has finished.

As the saying goes, an Ex is a has been, and a Spurt is a Drip under Pressure.

1andrew1 · 12-02-2021, 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul

There is always one.

All adults will never vaccinated, there will always be those that are not.

That of course is before you even start thinking about those who turn 18 after the current programme of vaccinations has finished.

As the saying goes, an Ex is a has been, and a Spurt is a Drip under Pressure.

I'm working on the basis it's a lazy headline and she means "have been offered the vaccine".

Even then, I hope restrictions end before then!

downquark1 · 12-02-2021, 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul

There is always one.

All adults will never vaccinated, there will always be those that are not.

That of course is before you even start thinking about those who turn 18 after the current programme of vaccinations has finished.

As the saying goes, an Ex is a has been, and a Spurt is a Drip under Pressure.

I swear they are just doing this nonsense deliberately. Everyone knows not 100% of everyone is ever vaccinated but once you reach a level of herd immunity the virus becomes unable to sustain transmission and becomes vanishingly rare. So what is it? They think they won't reach herd immunity or they are now not willing to risk a anyone coming near a near extinct virus?

**Maggy** · 12-02-2021, 11:10

Talking heads for the sake of talking heads just to keep 24/7 news going. I'm weaning myself off the news.

1andrew1 · 12-02-2021, 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by downquark1

I swear they are just doing this nonsense deliberately. Everyone knows not 100% of everyone is ever vaccinated but once you reach a level of herd immunity the virus becomes unable to sustain transmission and becomes vanishingly rare. So what is it? They think they won't reach herd immunity or they are now not willing to risk a anyone coming near a near extinct virus?

I think the fear is the development of the new variants.

pip08456 · 12-02-2021, 11:20

Wales hits target of offering Covid vaccines to first four priority groups

https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2021-...riority-groups

I go for mine Monday.

jfman · 12-02-2021, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I'm working on the basis it's a lazy headline and she means "have been offered the vaccine".

Even then, I hope restrictions end before then!

Behavioural scientists would be all over the statement

"All adults who want the vaccine have had it"

It's optional? Okay wait there will I Google the merits of vaccination versus not getting it. What? There's a newer one coming in Autumn? Might as well wait then.

That's one of the more positive outcomes of googling the merits of vaccination or otherwise without going down the conspiracy theorists rabbit hole.

Anyone with medical reasons to not take it will be advised by professionals and anyone genuinely anti vax will not anyway. The last thing they want to do is nudge people against it.

As I've said before everyone should take it but you'll not hear anyone in authority speak in terms of it being optional unless outright asked "is it optional?".

---------- Post added at 11:56 ---------- Previous post was at 11:54 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by downquark1

I swear they are just doing this nonsense deliberately. Everyone knows not 100% of everyone is ever vaccinated but once you reach a level of herd immunity the virus becomes unable to sustain transmission and becomes vanishingly rare. So what is it? They think they won't reach herd immunity or they are now not willing to risk a anyone coming near a near extinct virus?

Bingo.

tweetiepooh · 12-02-2021, 12:35

The whole situation is very complex and there are multiple factors and situations that need to be looked at. For example why are cases in India dropping the way they are, why in other areas are cases climbing, why are fatalities higher is some areas than others in some groups than others? Is there any way to correlate results for a population group in one country to a similar group in another?

There really are so many variables it does get really hard to make plans and execute them. A further issue is that with wide spread media and reporting small anomalies are inflated. Statistically that may not be that important but it is to those involved, at what point does policy change to cover that anomaly? Is it if the group is "important" enough, or makes enough noise, or gets enough media attention?

What really needs to be made clear is why policies are in place and for how long and what is needed to change that policy. If the reason for lock down is to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed make that really clear and that simply preventing spread/death is "secondary". Also that vaccination isn't a golden bullet that will stop all deaths or major illness it may reduce it to a level that is statistically acceptable. But that is hard to say if you are in the situation of losing a loved one as it appears uncaring.

And there is also the personal factor in all of this. Even if the government had the perfect policy in place, vaccinations all going fine, quarantines. It doesn't take many silly sods breaking the rules in a dangerous way to restart the fires again.

1andrew1 · 12-02-2021, 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman

Behavioural scientists would be all over the statement

"All adults who want the vaccine have had it"

It's optional? Okay wait there will I Google the merits of vaccination versus not getting it. What? There's a newer one coming in Autumn? Might as well wait then.

That's one of the more positive outcomes of googling the merits of vaccination or otherwise without going down the conspiracy theorists rabbit hole.

Anyone with medical reasons to not take it will be advised by professionals and anyone genuinely anti vax will not anyway. The last thing they want to do is nudge people against it.

As I've said before everyone should take it but you'll not hear anyone in authority speak in terms of it being optional unless outright asked "is it optional?".

Good point.

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This thread is in danger of getting a bit cheerful so I thought I'd better share today's reminder of the huge economic cost the UK is facing.

Quote:

UK economy shrinks by most in 300 years

Gloomy outlook for 2021 after pandemic batters economy in 2020

UK economic output fell 9.9 per cent in 2020, the largest drop in 300 years and more than twice the fall during the financial crisis, laying bare the scale of the pandemic’s impact.

The economy grew more than expected in the fourth quarter despite extensive Covid-19 restrictions but remained smaller than before the pandemic. The outlook for the start of 2021 has darkened. Output expanded 1 per cent in the three months to December from the previous quarter, according to data from the Office for National Statistics — a stronger showing than the 0.5 per cent forecast by economists polled by Reuters.

But the figures released on Friday showed UK output was down 7.8 per cent from the final quarter of 2019, twice the decline in Germany and three times the drop in the US. The differences reflect long periods of tough restrictions in the UK as well as generous US stimulus plans and tax cuts in Germany.

https://www.ft.com/content/96e19afd-...e-a72bd1f60d3c