Sky to launch Mobile network? Not virtual network either...

[Telly_]

Slighty old news and some may know already but it seems Sky want to buy the parts of Everything Everywheres network it has to sell aspart of the T-Mobile Orange merger.

Or perhaps buy up 3uk which is a better idea I think, I really like this idea and would snap up a Sky mobile for a quad-play one bill. Thoughts? This wouldnt be a piggy back virtual network like VM but a proper Sky mobile network.

Pay-TV giant Sky is in negotiations with mobile giant Everything Everywhere over launching its own mobile service, according to a newspaper report.

Sky already offers broadband and landline services to customers, on top of its core offering of satellite television.

But cable-based rival Virgin Media is able to offer a 'quad-play' service as it operates Virgin Mobile, made possible via a Mobile Virtual Network Operator (MVNO) agreement, involving a provider 'piggy backing' on a mobile network.

The Sunday Times yesterday (May 27) reported that Sky is in talks with Everything Everywhere about buying a portion of spectrum that the mobile firm has to sell as part of the joint venture deal between Orange and T-Mobile.

Sky would be able to build its own network after buying the spectrum, but the paper noted that shareholders will most probably be concerned over the £3 to 4 billion cost attached to that strategy.

The satellite firm could instead look to purchase an existing network operator, such as the UK arm of Hutchison Whampoa, after the firm said that it may pull out of Britain if the planned 4G auction does not favour the smaller operators.

[m419]

Originally Posted by Telly Bear

Slighty old news and some may know already but it seems Sky want to buy the parts of Everything Everywheres network it has to sell aspart of the T-Mobile Orange merger.

Or perhaps buy up 3uk which is a better idea I think, I really like this idea and would snap up a Sky mobile for a quad-play one bill. Thoughts? This wouldnt be a piggy back virtual network like VM but a proper Sky mobile network.

It's not in BskyB's pipeline, after careful consideration, the UK has a very saturated market and after all the advertising and marketing plus the cost of maintaining the network as well as the amount they would spend on leased lines and dependence on other fixed line networks for data services, it would not generate much revenue further more, it is pay monthly contract customers who generate much of the revenue for mobile phone networks and since everyone has a mobile phone these days, most people locked in 18 and 24 month contracts and in Vodafone cases 36 months, after all the money spent, the network would be sitting there empty. Furthermore, what would be different about Sky's mobile network? The existing 4/5 provide everything you expect from a mobile phone, also retentional deals to stop people leaving by each of the existing network operators would squeeze Sky out as after investing in a new mobile network, Sky would have to compete with the likes of 3 who can afford to give out phones on the cheap and low cost tariffs, as a new entrant to the market, it would be beyond Sky's budget and in turn would be lucky to make a break even.

Nevertheless, Deutsche Telekom have been looking at options around T-Mobile UK operations and its 50% stake in Everything Everywhere, this would go up for sale and Sky could possibly be one of the bidders, however I have a feeling, France Telecom may acquire the remaining 50% and rebrand the whole operation as Orange, and the excess spectrum to be sold off to BT. Deutsche Telekom are more interested in developing countries as they feel that the UK has a very saturated market, and it does, everyone has a mobile or access to a telephone or payphone that can call a mobile and they feel that they cannot achieve any higher than they can.

BT seem to be working with Everything Everywhere and could be the perfect one to take over that spectrum as rather than promote a new mobile network, they can use it for existing services as well as provide 3G and 4G alternatives in rural locations, it could also be used for BT Mobile Broadband customers,BT Business Mobile and any remaining BT Personal Mobile customers as currently they lease the Vodafone network for this.

Furthermore, BT would be more successful at a mobile phone network as they would not have to pay for the use of the BT network or leased lines or for data services and would also not have to pay for Emergency services or anything like that, T-Mobile is also considering selling its Dutch operation and as most mobile networks operate internationally and since BT has a virtual network in Holland, it would make sense for BT to acquire 3,the excess spectrum from Everything Everywhere and the Dutch T-Mobile operation. The German O2 network may also go up for sale as well as some other Telefonica O2 assets as the company has a £48 Billion debt mountain, if BT acquired all these it would retain its international mobile strategy which it had sell off years ago.

[Telly_]

Sky will have a mobile network within 2 years,

[m419]

You do know it is just 3G spectrum for sale and not 2G or 4G, for a start a network just depending on 3G in the UK is no good, it doesn't work well, 3 is an example, 3 in other countries has not struggled as much as the UK. Sky will then have to bid for a 4G license as well. If sky do buy it, it will be for broadband on the move, which is what they are currently promoting with the cloud also owned by sky.

---------- Post added at 23:57 ---------- Previous post was at 23:41 ----------

If Sky were to purchase the spectrum, it would bring the company into line with Virgin Media’s four-pronged approached to the market, where it offers TV, phone, internet and mobile services. However, The Sunday Times claimed the cost of setting up its own mobile network could cost Sky in the region of £4bn.

They can't afford £4 Billion, there current net income is £0.810 billion less than a billion and no bank will throw in any funds for something facing heavy competition. News corp will not either, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if News corp don't sell off the majority of sky in the next 5 years

[m419]

Originally Posted by Telly Bear

Sky will have a mobile network within 2 years,

http://uk.breakingnews.com/item/ahZz...alks-over-an-8

Don't think so....

[Telly_]

Originally Posted by m419

http://uk.breakingnews.com/item/ahZz...alks-over-an-8

Don't think so....

They still have to sell off part of their spectrum due to them merging,Sky were never going to buy out Everything Everywhere. They were looking into buying up some of the SPECTRUM and it IS 4G aswell. Also the network they MAY buyout is 3UK, After its owner Hutchinson telecom stated it may leave the uk.

Everything Everywhere has appointed Morgan Stanley to sell off around a quarter of its 1800Mhz spectrum, as stipulated as a condition of the merger of T-Mobile and Orange in the UK to form the biggest mobile operator by customer base.

Morgan Stanley will market the spectrum to any groups with an interest in offering a 4G network in the UK to rival the proposed service of Everything Everywhere. This is intended to generate fresh competition in the new market.

The major mobile operators are expected to be interested in the spectrum, which could cost around £400m, although other technology firms may also lodge bids.

[m419]

It may leave the UK, but it is actually doing ok, they don't want to sell up too soon as it would be seen as a wasted investment.

Sky does not have £4 Billion to build a proper network out of that spectrum plus a couple more billion to takeover 3. Why would they risk all that money when there is already too much competition. It would take them many years to make the money back.

[Telly_]

Originally Posted by m419

It may leave the UK, but it is actually doing ok, they don't want to sell up too soon as it would be seen as a wasted investment.

Sky does not have £4 Billion to build a proper network out of that spectrum plus a couple more billion to takeover 3. Why would they risk all that money when there is already too much competition. It would take them many years to make the money back.

Just like BT just spent £700million of football rights, sometimes if you can't buy the milk at the right price you have to go buy the farm. 2-3years from now mobile internet will be massively fast and reliable.

If Sky are going to create debt then this is the best place, they have recently bought the cloud wifi network aswell dont forget. They understand the need to able to offer your customers data on the move.

Sky has to launch a mobile network of its own, and it will. When they asked on the official Sky forums last year they got an over whelming YES from customers that they want Sky mobile. Sky already have 10million customers and more tripple pay customer than Virgin, itmakes sense to think a lot of these customers would move mobile provider to Sky. I would,

I really don't think Sky have a choice, they NEED a mobile network, they don't need the cash if they fund it with debt, god knows cable companies financed cabling 50% of the UK with debt.

Virginmedia have a virtual network and that was financed with debt even though they were already £5.6 billion in debt.

[m419]

Originally Posted by Telly Bear

Just like BT just spent £700million of football rights, sometimes if you can't buy the milk at the right price you have to go buy the farm. 2-3years from now mobile internet will be massively fast and reliable.

If Sky are going to create debt then this is the best place, they have recently bought the cloud wifi network aswell dont forget. They understand the need to able to offer your customers data on the move.

Sky has to launch a mobile network of its own, and it will. When they asked on the official Sky forums last year they got an over whelming YES from customers that they want Sky mobile. Sky already have 10million customers and more tripple pay customer than Virgin, itmakes sense to think a lot of these customers would move mobile provider to Sky. I would,

I really don't think Sky have a choice, they NEED a mobile network, they don't need the cash if they fund it with debt, god knows cable companies financed cabling 50% of the UK with debt.

Virginmedia have a virtual network and that was financed with debt even though they were already £5.6 billion in debt.

They don't need a network of there own, they can lease an existing one, by the way the new owners of Everything Everywhere may not have to sell the excess spectrum as it was based on Europe, Everything Everywhere is currently part of a Europe wide company, if it seperates from its existing owners, it will be just operating in the UK and a europe wide monopoly threat will no longer be a threat. They also have 2 million less customers than they did when the 2 companies merged, O2 and Vodafone are also merging there infrastructure meaning as situations have changed and a monopoly is no longer a worry. That is why it hasn't happened yet.

[Telly_]

Originally Posted by m419

They don't need a network of there own, they can lease an existing one, by the way the new owners of Everything Everywhere may not have to sell the excess spectrum as it was based on Europe, Everything Everywhere is currently part of a Europe wide company, if it seperates from its existing owners, it will be just operating in the UK and a europe wide monopoly threat will no longer be a threat. They also have 2 million less customers than they did when the 2 companies merged, O2 and Vodafone are also merging there infrastructure meaning as situations have changed and a monopoly is no longer a worry. That is why it hasn't happened yet.

I still think Sky will be in the mobile market come 2014, some analysts even think Sky have a secret plan to bid on the 800mhz and 2.6Ghz auctions and just buy one of the new licences. That would be extremely expensive but give them massive coverage and their own platform.

Even if it happened using Murdochs money, lets face it he will want a mobile network eventually.An as everyone here says Murdoch basically owns Sky the money is not an issue is it. Sky are getting a lot of unwanted attention due to TV rights ect. Letting that settle and moving into new areas maybe a good idea.

[m419]

Do you know how much a network makes a year per customer who have an iphone? Around £50 to £60 which is very little, and these are the most popular phones. Plus all the advertising and Ofcom's regulating on pricing makes it a dead loss. There is no money to be made, even termination rates have been cut which means a lot less revenue from incoming calls

[Telly_]

Originally Posted by m419

Do you know how much a network makes a year per customer who have an iphone? Around £50 to £60 which is very little, and these are the most popular phones. Plus all the advertising and Ofcom's regulating on pricing makes it a dead loss. There is no money to be made, even termination rates have been cut which means a lot less revenue from incoming calls

What? I have an iPhone on Three the phone was free and its £34 a month that £408. I believe they wholesale iPhone from Apple for around £280-£340. I'm in a 24 month contract totaling £808 if I NEVER incure any extra charges.

What makes you think 3 will only make £100 from me over 24 months? You make things up pal. Unless you have a link to back this up?

[m419]

Originally Posted by Telly Bear

What? I have an iPhone on Three the phone was free and its £34 a month that £408. I believe they wholesale iPhone from Apple for around £280-£340. I'm in a 24 month contract totaling £808 if I NEVER incure any extra charges.

What makes you think 3 will only make £100 from me over 24 months? You make things up pal. Unless you have a link to back this up?

They own there own foreign call centre,so they don't spend much on customer service, £100 would be a lot to them. You included wholesale costs, but what about the cost of calling other networks? 3 to 4p per minute in termination fees, ten minute call to someone on Vodafone costs 3 around 40p, if you get 2,000 minutes, work it out. Then there is VAT on top, so yeah my figures are reality. 3 are offering on the cheap to bump up customer numbers as it will increase the valuation of the company. Hutchison would want a price higher than there start up cost otherwise it would have been 11 years of wasted investment.

3 were the last to offer the iphone because of the costs, high spending customers leaving 3 during 2009 and early 2010 for an iphone on a network that offered them were given iphones imported from 3's italian operations.

[Telly_]

Originally Posted by m419

They own there own foreign call centre,so they don't spend much on customer service, £100 would be a lot to them. You included wholesale costs, but what about the cost of calling other networks? 3 to 4p per minute in termination fees, ten minute call to someone on Vodafone costs 3 around 40p, if you get 2,000 minutes, work it out. Then there is VAT on top, so yeah my figures are reality. 3 are offering on the cheap to bump up customer numbers as it will increase the valuation of the company. Hutchison would want a price higher than there start up cost otherwise it would have been 11 years of wasted investment.

3 were the last to offer the iphone because of the costs, high spending customers leaving 3 during 2009 and early 2010 for an iphone on a network that offered them were given iphones imported from 3's italian operations.

I look forward to the very profitable Sky-Mobile.

Oh, and Sky already have customers services call centers in place, and 3 also get termination fee's when a caller from another operator calls onto their network. You're looking at this very one sided and negatively.

[m419]

Originally Posted by Telly Bear

I look forward to the very profitable Sky-Mobile.

Oh, and Sky already have customers services call centers in place, and 3 also get termination fee's when a caller from another operator calls onto their network. You're looking at this very one sided and negatively.

3 has around 6 million customers, then times the other 4 networks the amount coming into 3 is gonna be smaller as they are the smallest compared to the amount going out on termination fees.

Sky outsources most of its call centres and one of the companies who do that for them is the Listening company

I am looking at it one sided because for a start we are in a recession and £4 to £7 Billion is too much to risk on a saturated market, thats not to say it will never happen because it could but not in the timescale you are thinking, a good way would be to start off as a virtual network using its current tv customer base and then if it does acquire or build its own network move them over onto it.

but like I said it won't be happening yet