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Child grooming gang found guilty
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:53   #151
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Re: Child grooming gang found guilty

I don't give a turd what their reasons are.The crime is the true fact here and it should never,ever matter when it comes to sexual crimes.
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Old 11-05-2012, 12:17   #152
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Re: Child grooming gang found guilty

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Originally Posted by Maggy J View Post
I don't give a turd what their reasons are.The crime is the true fact here and it should never,ever matter when it comes to sexual crimes.
I think that's rather short-sighted. Whereas I agree with it in principle I think there are other factors at work here.

If it is true that in Asian cultures young girls are treated this way, we urgently need to address the matter if it is something being seen to be happening in the UK.

I doubt the result of this case will do anything to deter other like-minded people. If anything I believe it will just make them try harder to not get caught.
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Old 11-05-2012, 12:37   #153
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Re: Child grooming gang found guilty

If you don't identify the reasons why, then you can't identify any current perpetrators or prevent it from happening in the first place.
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Old 11-05-2012, 13:11   #154
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Re: Child grooming gang found guilty

They need no excuses or reasons.They merely proffer them as a means of reducing their part in the activity or to point blame elsewhere.
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Old 11-05-2012, 13:45   #155
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Re: Child grooming gang found guilty

I don't think reasons are being offered as mitigation, more like a way to identify future such crimes before they happen.
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Old 11-05-2012, 14:04   #156
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Re: Child grooming gang found guilty

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Originally Posted by Maggy J View Post
I don't give a turd what their reasons are.The crime is the true fact here and it should never,ever matter when it comes to sexual crimes.
It should matter what the reasons are ,otherwise how are the police supposed to tackle crimes of this nature in the future .In this case a complaint was made 4 yrs ago but the witness was deemed to be not credible by the cps .Had they taken the alegations seriously and not backed down because of race issues then many young girls would have been spared the awfull crimes against them .
There is of course still a lot to do still as regards sex crimes because we still have a tendancy to try to bury them .It is true that this case hit the headlines because the perpetrators where all asian ,i doubt very much that there would have been the same coverage if they had all been white which is part of the problem imo
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Old 11-05-2012, 14:14   #157
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Re: Child grooming gang found guilty

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Originally Posted by Russ View Post
My OH has told me this sort of thing is rife in Pakistani communities. Also in some Saudi regions, girls are allowed to marry at 12, 13 etc and this may well have been an influencing factor. I'm pretty sure the police only claimed it wasn't about race to stave off any potential race riots that this would cause had they publicly stated the opposite.
When you say this sort of thing is rife, are you refering to raping and grooming of young white girls? Can you elaborate?

Personally, I don;t think this was racially motivated. These men would have picked up young asian girls if they had been available (by that i mean troubled asian girls who could be maniuplated with drink or booze).

I have listened to many talk radio phone ins over the past few days, saying how this is a Pakistani cultural issue, or how this is a Pakistani Muslim culture, both views which I think are totally incorrect and generalise a community negatively.

Also I find it interesting that when you have a group of pakistani perpertrators their race and culture hasd become a huge issue. When you have reports of child cruelty, paedophillia rings in the UK (where the majority of convicted perpertrators have been White and in a lot of cases English) their race/ethnicioty is never an issue. They are judged as evil, simply because of what has been done.


Although I do not agree with child brides, yes it happens in Saudi and no doubt it goes on in otjher countries, cultures and religions. By making refering to this in your post, there is an implication that this is a Muslim issue (Pakistani + Saudi must equal muslim), and you are bringing in a religious factor to the discussion.

---------- Post added at 13:14 ---------- Previous post was at 13:08 ----------

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...It is true that this case hit the headlines because the perpetrators where all asian ,i doubt very much that there would have been the same coverage if they had all been white which is part of the problem imo
The case would have hit the headlines, but the style of reporting would have been a lot different.

There crux of the matter is that this is an abhorent crime which any decent human being would be totally disgusted by and condemn, regardless of race, clour or creed. Unfortunately there are already views that I have read, saying it happens all the time in pakistani communities, oh it's ok because these girls were white, oh they wouldn't do it to their own etc etc etc..... There are calls for community leaders to go on the radio and say that this is not something we agree on etc etc etc.

The fact of the matter is that they are evil scumbags, why should their colour or background or religion cause for calls on the wider community to react and defend their culture because people automatically assume it is because of their culture that they have done this?
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Old 11-05-2012, 14:24   #158
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Re: Child grooming gang found guilty

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Old 11-05-2012, 14:26   #159
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Re: Child grooming gang found guilty

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Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo View Post

Also I find it interesting that when you have a group of pakistani perpertrators their race and culture hasd become a huge issue. When you have reports of child cruelty, paedophillia rings in the UK (where the majority of convicted perpertrators have been White and in a lot of cases English) their race/ethnicioty is never an issue. They are judged as evil, simply because of what has been done.

.
In this specific case i think it was latched onto as a racist case because the perpetrators said it was ,but how true that is we don't know as i said above ,plus groups like the EDL and BNP latched onto this dribbling at the mouth at the prospect of vindicating their hatred for anything non British.

The mistake i think we tend to make is ignoring any race issues or putting them forefront in any crimes .We do need to consider any race issues but not to the extent of putting victims last they must always come first and race issues treated as secondary,not ignored, and dealt with separately so as not to confuse the real issue which in this case was rape and exploitation.

Make no mistake that the BNP and others have managed to cloud this issue to the extent where the victims have virtually been forgotten about and because of there actions may result in a retrial where the victims will have to go through all the pain of testifying again and i think these groups should be taken to task over it
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Old 11-05-2012, 14:55   #160
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Re: Child grooming gang found guilty

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Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo View Post
When you say this sort of thing is rife, are you refering to raping and grooming of young white girls? Can you elaborate?
In Leicester there are a large number of Asian gangs who go looking for teenage girls to use for their own ends. Usually it doesn't matter which race or colour they are but still some target whites. Usually the gangs impress the girls by buying them gifts, driving fast cars etc and make them think they're now boyfriend/girlfriend. They keep up the pretence until they've won their trust and then the trouble starts.

The gangs then pimp the girls out to others and threaten them with violence against them and their families if they refuse.

Obviously not all Pakistanis are like that and neither are all Pakistani gang members. But it happens a lot. She is part of the Asian community and is privacy to what is talked about, what goes on. She has even been warned about it from her own family when she was growing up.
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Old 11-05-2012, 15:00   #161
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Re: Child grooming gang found guilty

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Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo View Post

The fact of the matter is that they are evil scumbags, why should their colour or background or religion cause for calls on the wider community to react and defend their culture because people automatically assume it is because of their culture that they have done this?
They shouldn't have to ,but they may need to .It is in the best interests of all to dispel the myth that this sort of thing is inherent in some Asian cultures.I may be wrong but i don't know one culture that allows this sort of behaviour,they have their sex offenders and pedophiles the same as all others and how they treat them differs but child sex is not part of the culture as some perceive and that message does need to get accross and the best people to do that are the leaders of those different cultures in this country
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Old 11-05-2012, 15:03   #162
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Re: Child grooming gang found guilty

Doesn't make it a racist issue necessarily though, just one of of readily available vulnerable young girls who just 'happen' to be white..Most Asian girls are heavily chaperoned within the community and are therefore unlikely to be targeted..I'm pretty sure if they weren't that they would become targets.
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Old 11-05-2012, 15:14   #163
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Re: Child grooming gang found guilty

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Originally Posted by Russ View Post
In Leicester there are a large number of Asian gangs who go looking for teenage girls to use for their own ends. Usually it doesn't matter which race or colour they are but still some target whites. Usually the gangs impress the girls by buying them gifts, driving fast cars etc and make them think they're now boyfriend/girlfriend. They keep up the pretence until they've won their trust and then the trouble starts.

The gangs then pimp the girls out to others and threaten them with violence against them and their families if they refuse.

Obviously not all Pakistanis are like that and neither are all Pakistani gang members. But it happens a lot. She is part of the Asian community and is privacy to what is talked about, what goes on. She has even been warned about it from her own family when she was growing up.
The bit hilighted in Bold is the point isn't it. That there are a large number or gangs targeting vunerable girls. Leicester has a significant amount of asians right (I think the majority now are asian) so it's obvious you will find asian men doing this. What is interesting about Leicester is that the majority of asians from Leicester happen to be from Africa and India, and there is a large representation here from all religions, Sikhs, Muslim and Hindus - I would also bet that Pakistanis make up the smallest subset within that ethnioc group. So again, unless we know they are specifically Pakistani again it sort of blows out the cultural argument out of the water.

If the gang in Rochdale were in an area rife with vunerable Pakistani girls, do not for one minute think they would have left them alone.

TAke out the word asian in your post above and that applies to all people who pimp out girls/run child prostitution rings.

No one, especially me, is disputing that Pakistani men do not do it. Unfortunately evil is not confined to one race or colour, but the reporting, views and opinions of late are that this is a massive problem in the Pakistani muslim community and because the victims were all white, its all ok.

---------- Post added at 14:14 ---------- Previous post was at 14:09 ----------

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Originally Posted by Maggy J View Post
Doesn't make it a racist issue necessarily though, just one of of readily available vulnerable young girls who just 'happen' to be white..Most Asian girls are heavily chaperoned within the community and are therefore unlikely to be targeted..I'm pretty sure if they weren't that they would become targets.
Exactly. They would have found it extremely difficult to target asian girls because of those reasons. That is not saying that it doesn't happen to asian girls either. There are quite a few who end up in prostitution having been exploited as a result of their broken backgrounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh View Post
They shouldn't have to ,but they may need to .It is in the best interests of all to dispel the myth that this sort of thing is inherent in some Asian cultures.I may be wrong but i don't know one culture that allows this sort of behaviour,they have their sex offenders and pedophiles the same as all others and how they treat them differs but child sex is not part of the culture as some perceive and that message does need to get accross and the best people to do that are the leaders of those different cultures in this country
The myth that has sprung about in the last week? I've never heard previous to this case that British (or non British) Pakistani Muslims culturally think its ok to groom white girls for prostitution? Or to be pimps. If these men had been caught doing this "back home" not one would have made it to trial. They would have been hanged by their communities.
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Old 11-05-2012, 15:23   #164
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Re: Child grooming gang found guilty

As my OH was growing up she was not warned about gangs of white youths looking for girls. She was specifically told about Pakistani gangs. Even to this day she warns her eldest daughter about them.
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Old 11-05-2012, 15:26   #165
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Re: Child grooming gang found guilty

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As my OH was growing up she was not warned about gangs of white youths looking for girls. She was specifically told about Pakistani gangs. Even to this day she warns her eldest daughter about them.
So this points to it not being a racist issue surely?
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