British culture

[Sephiroth]

The ESL thread got into debate about football being part of British culture. This post in that thread sums up where we got to.

For the purposes of this thread, it doesn't matter whether or not football is part of British culture (I certainly think it's part of our heritage). My main motive for starting this thread is to discuss the proposition that our culture will be submerged by others over time.

Some of this debate may turn on "culture" vs "heritage". Some of this debate may turn on diversity and whether or not that dilutes our culture.

In the linked thread, Chris wrote (my emphasis):

It's great that the Spurs season ticket passes down your family, but it's not so great that with such an obvious cultural artefact right under your nose you still can't see it.

There we have it. "Culture" vs "heritage". Something that passes down the family is definitely in the "heritage" class, 'right under my nose' which I can't see!

My main contention is that our culture is under threat from other cultures, particularly any that are intransigent and antithetic to the Judeo-Christian element of our culture.

Incidentally, it may be interesting to boil British culture down to a common denominator. I've mentioned Judeo-Christian which could be argued taking atheism into account. In a liberal society, culture evolves with experience and possibly brainwashing (see woke-ism for details); I doubt that's the case with certain other cultures.

So what do you all think?

In what way, and in what time period, do you forecast that

our culture will be submerged by others over time.

For instance, a lot of people think "our culture" is being subsumed by US culture and way of life (the Coca-Colonisation of the world by McDonalds, Coke, US TV & films, etc.).

Terms of reference are important, so we all approach the discussion from the same point.

[Carth]

I've just written what seems like an essay on the subject, but decided to delete it.
Not because it was wrong, not because it wasn't factual, not because it pointed fingers in any direction.

I deleted it because someone, somewhere, would eventually find issue with it . . . guaranteed

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Carth

I've just written what seems like an essay on the subject, but decided to delete it.
Not because it was wrong, not because it wasn't factual, not because it pointed fingers in any direction.

I deleted it because someone, somewhere, would eventually find issue with it . . . guaranteed

All the more reason to post it.

[Jaymoss]

Seeing as it has happened before I am pretty sure it could easily happen again

Lets face it a lot of us on this forum have seen a lot of cultural changes already after all how many who seen the 70s 80s and 90s ever thought there would come a day someone would demand to be called the pro noun they let alone everything that has come along with it. Or we would have to go around treading on eggshells so we do not offend some kind of minority. I am sure how I worded that sentence would likely offend someone of said minority

[jonbxx]

Ooh, this could end in a locked thread and some bannings!

I think how we see British culture and how other see it are quite different. I saw this thread and then had a call with a colleague from Belgium and asked him what he thought of British people and culture. On the positives, he saw British people as being open and fair and surprisingly flexible. On the less positive side, he saw us as being somewhat parochial or cliquey and tended to look backwards than forwards.

I asked him what other people were we like and he said somewhere between the Swedes and Germans (not the Danes though) which I guess is a compliment!

So culture in general. It depends on if you see British culture as what identifies us or a snapshot of where we are now. In my mind, culture is an organic thing, always changing. Britain and the culture of britons has been changing for centuries, from a largely illiterate population working in serfdom, through the industrial revolution and the growth of cities to having vast amounts of information available on a device which sits in the palm of your hand.

If you look at 'foreign' culture coming here, how much of that is normal now? We have cherry picked and anglicised other countries products, foods, words, etc. for ever. Sitting in your pyjamas, drinking coffee and eating a pizza in a bungalow and so on...

I am in no doubt that British culture will continue to change. I am also in no doubt that there will be many who decry cultural change as the virtual destruction of British culture. Of course, the counterargument is who says that where we are right now is the absolute peak of our culture and any change will be a downhill one?

It's an interesting discussion!

[1andrew1]

I blame cable TV for all those foreign programmes diluting our culture!

I'm sure US culture has a huge influence on British culture. Just look at all the reactions to BLM in America.

It will also be interesting to see how Netflix shapes our culture with its global content made in other languages.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

In what way, and in what time period, do you forecast that

For instance, a lot of people think "our culture" is being subsumed by US culture and way of life (the Coca-Colonisation of the world by McDonalds, Coke, US TV & films, etc.).

Terms of reference are important, so we all approach the discussion from the same point.

Part of the interest to draw from this thread is what others consider to be "for instances". Why should I prescribe them?

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

In what way, and in what time period, do you forecast that

For instance, a lot of people think "our culture" is being subsumed by US culture and way of life (the Coca-Colonisation of the world by McDonalds, Coke, US TV & films, etc.).

Terms of reference are important, so we all approach the discussion from the same point.

It is and it is being accelerated through social media and You Tube. The number of times I have to correct by 9yr old.......Sweets not Candy, Rubbish not Trash etc, etc.

I think it's likely as they get older they'll grow out if it, but some will stick. People using the "US" dictionary when using Word, and just accepting the US spellings.

The adoption of BLM in the UK and the attempt to equate racial issues in the US to the UK, when the two are completely different.

The push for Critical Race Theory to adopted in the UK.

The UK and US are very different, but people seem to think we're not.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Ooh, this could end in a locked thread and some bannings!

I think how we see British culture and how other see it are quite different. I saw this thread and then had a call with a colleague from Belgium and asked him what he thought of British people and culture. On the positives, he saw British people as being open and fair and surprisingly flexible. On the less positive side, he saw us as being somewhat parochial or cliquey and tended to look backwards than forwards.

I asked him what other people were we like and he said somewhere between the Swedes and Germans (not the Danes though) which I guess is a compliment!

So culture in general. It depends on if you see British culture as what identifies us or a snapshot of where we are now. In my mind, culture is an organic thing, always changing. Britain and the culture of britons has been changing for centuries, from a largely illiterate population working in serfdom, through the industrial revolution and the growth of cities to having vast amounts of information available on a device which sits in the palm of your hand.

If you look at 'foreign' culture coming here, how much of that is normal now? We have cherry picked and anglicised other countries products, foods, words, etc. for ever. Sitting in your pyjamas, drinking coffee and eating a pizza in a bungalow and so on...

I am in no doubt that British culture will continue to change. I am also in no doubt that there will be many who decry cultural change as the virtual destruction of British culture. Of course, the counterargument is who says that where we are right now is the absolute peak of our culture and any change will be a downhill one?

It's an interesting discussion!

Ooh, this could end in a locked thread and some bannings!

That's what will make people dance around/avoid fingering cultures in the UK that might dominate in the longer term future.

Brexit has illustrated that there are cultural differences between continental Europeans and Brits. Both are conditioned by their environment. For example, Europeans governed under Roman Law are subtly aware that the law broadly says what they are allowed to do and anything else is implicitly not allowed (crossing the road is an example). Put rather simply but the principle is sound. British Law has none of this; it defines what you MUST do, what you MUST NOT do and everything else that doesn't negate what you must do is allowed subject to precedent in the Courts. This conditioning thus affects behaviour and hence culture.

There are certain cultures present in the UK that don't do diversity. A variant on the, multi-culturalism, causes problems for the defence of British culture. The ultra-woke may well think "so what?" - melange is the ultimate answer. This sort of evolution cannot and should not be stopped. But there are cultures that would prefer to dominate and possibly have that agenda in mind right now whereas the melange is a very slow burner.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Part of the interest to draw from this thread is what others consider to be "for instances". Why should I prescribe them?

OK, here's a 'for instance' for you

My next door neighbour (neighbor*) is a Sikh, really nice chap, well liked by all around here (white middle class 3 bed detached area).

The reason he moved here from a different part of town . . in his words . .

"Too many of those Polish people moved in to where I was, always fighting and causing trouble, no good for people like me"

*American spelling, this board rejects the English one.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Carth

OK, here's a 'for instance' for you

My next door neighbour (neighbor*) is a Sikh, really nice chap, well liked by all around here (white middle class 3 bed detached area).

The reason he moved here from a different part of town . . in his words . .

"Too many of those Polish people moved in to where I was, always fighting and causing trouble, no good for people like me"

*American spelling, this board rejects the English one.

I've had that about 9 years ago, in a Hospital waiting room talking to a man of Pakistani descent, and complaining about them taking the local jobs. Now I didn't have an issue with that because I had no reason to assume the guy wasn't born in Britain, in which case if he has an opinion on an fairly recent influx of immigrants, his opinion is just as valid as a white British person's

[Hom3r]

IMHO British culture is slowly being destroyed by the easily offended snowflakes.

Take a look at some of the classic British shows that have to be "Cut" so the don't offend.

For example "In sickness and in health", Alf Garnett was a bigot who ending up losing the argument, and that was the point of the show taking the mick out of bigots.

Then do you remember "Mind your language" it was an English language class, with the stereo typical non English type, but it will never be shown on TV.

[heero_yuy]

The old values ARE crumbling.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

That's what will make people dance around/avoid fingering cultures in the UK that might dominate in the longer term future.

Brexit has illustrated that there are cultural differences between continental Europeans and Brits. Both are conditioned by their environment. For example, Europeans governed under Roman Law are subtly aware that the law broadly says what they are allowed to do and anything else is implicitly not allowed (crossing the road is an example). Put rather simply but the principle is sound. British Law has none of this; it defines what you MUST do, what you MUST NOT do and everything else that doesn't negate what you must do is allowed subject to precedent in the Courts. This conditioning thus affects behaviour and hence culture.

There are certain cultures present in the UK that don't do diversity. A variant on the, multi-culturalism, causes problems for the defence of British culture. The ultra-woke may well think "so what?" - melange is the ultimate answer. This sort of evolution cannot and should not be stopped. But there are cultures that would prefer to dominate and possibly have that agenda in mind right now whereas the melange is a very slow burner.

Is it fair so say that the culture from Finland to Greece, Portugal to Hungary is homogenous and the UK is somehow different from this homogenous bloc? I wouldn't say so, there are huge differences across an entire continent. There are similarities from a legal standpoint as you say but the way people relax, interact, eat, educate and so on are very different.

I agree that a cherry picking of the best of everything has worked well for British culture in the past and I am hopeful that it will in the future. The white Anglo Saxon brit tends to be a pragmatic person on the whole. There are of course some who say that white British people should dominate but this is slowly but surely being wiped out. For example, our teenage daughter has been invited to her first Iftar meal and we couldn't be happier at the broadening of her horizons